Author Topic: Controversy is POISON when it divides the community  (Read 2497 times)

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Offline cube

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Re: Controversy is POISON when it divides the community
« Reply #15 on: February 03, 2015, 01:21:08 pm »
I think it's clear this shouldn't be messed with in BTS right now as the community consensus is pretty unanimous and specifically because of the negative impact it may have on the Chinese market.

I think the numbers (early Bitcoin as well as new sites) show that a DAC which offered blockchain based BitAsset gambling could easily surpass BitShares.

Yes, I think it is telling that Bitcoin could do away with gaming (and succeeded) is due to its unfettered and decentralised nature. On the other hand, bitshares has its shareholders to answer to. And in this case, bts is being reined in by a big shareholders' 'NO GO!', especially from the Chinese.
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Offline chewchew

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Re: Controversy is POISON when it divides the community
« Reply #16 on: February 03, 2015, 01:25:56 pm »
This seems relevant.


At first I was all for the gambling idea, but then thinking about this chart I realized that there really isn't a market need for it, you can gamble with bitcoin. We have to do what others aren't doing. We have to offer something nobody else has - bitassets are a good start.
Also, we have to avoid disharmony.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2015, 01:35:10 pm by chewchew »

Offline matt608

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Re: Controversy is POISON when it divides the community
« Reply #17 on: February 03, 2015, 01:36:29 pm »
Interesting chart chewchew.  Highlights the need to penetrate developing economies who need stable currency and free banking from their phone.

Offline bytemaster

Re: Controversy is POISON when it divides the community
« Reply #18 on: February 03, 2015, 01:40:52 pm »
Bingo / gambling is out.  I am not looking to push any more controversial forks.
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Offline xeroc

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Re: Controversy is POISON when it divides the community
« Reply #19 on: February 03, 2015, 01:47:48 pm »
Bingo / gambling is out.  I am not looking to push any more controversial forks.
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Offline oldman

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Re: Controversy is POISON when it divides the community
« Reply #20 on: February 03, 2015, 01:50:46 pm »
Bingo / gambling is out.  I am not looking to push any more controversial forks.

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Offline BunkerChainLabs-DataSecurityNode

Re: Controversy is POISON when it divides the community
« Reply #21 on: February 03, 2015, 01:53:01 pm »
Bingo / gambling is out.  I am not looking to push any more controversial forks.

Hurray!  +5% Well done BM!
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Offline Empirical1.2

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Re: Controversy is POISON when it divides the community
« Reply #22 on: February 03, 2015, 02:16:27 pm »
This seems relevant.


At first I was all for the gambling idea, but then thinking about this chart I realized that there really isn't a market need for it, you can gamble with bitcoin. We have to do what others aren't doing. We have to offer something nobody else has - bitassets are a good start.
Also, we have to avoid disharmony.

The market need is due to the fact that it's one of the biggest Bitcoin industries but it's plagued by centralised hit and run options, which blockchain based solutions solve and they have the problem of volatility.

25/01/2015 - http://www.online-casinos.com/news/13074-online-gambling-experiencing-bitcoin-struggle

Quote
The question being asked by those using Bitcoin for gambling is whether the declining or volatile nature of the currency is worth the stress. The punter who uses the virtual coinage may be thinking they have won at the casino or card room but have lost on the currency value. This may impact the volume of bets placed with Bitcoin at online gambling sites that offer the coins as fair trade. The following of the ups and downs of the money for the online gambling operators must be a constant threat to profitability and sustainable growth

Centralised gambling operators are currently engaged in hugely convoluted mechanisms for accepting currency. It's one of the few places where there is an immediate market need for BitAssets and they greatly simplify things.

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/oct/03/bet365-profit-china-online-gambling

Bet365 is a company with $350 million annual profit and $40 Billion turnover.

Quote
• Bet365 frequently changes its website addresses in China, thereby side-stepping attempts by local regulators to close sites down.

• The company has constructed a complex payments system that allows it to take bets placed using China’s currency, the renminbi.


Sure sounds like they would benefit from using DNS & BitCNY.

I think it's good we don't pursue this at the moment. I'll take the short term 1.0 price spike and see what the Chinese market can do in the next 2-3 months in terms of adoption but the market need is obvious to me and BTS will be outcompeted by a real SuperDAC.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2015, 02:18:57 pm by Empirical1.2 »
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Offline valzav

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Re: Controversy is POISON when it divides the community
« Reply #23 on: February 03, 2015, 02:45:54 pm »
Who was it that said controversy is a good thing?  Was it the guy who no longer works here because most of the community was not satisfied with his work? I believe so...

-Controversy is a good thing if we are unified in our message

-Controversy is POISON if it divides the community

At the time of this message, 68% of voters think Bingo is a bad idea.  Please don't make the wrong decision.  If it will only take 80 hours to implement, instead, try using those hours on tooltips, help messages, a help section in the menu bar.  Even something simple like a link to the bitshares wiki would be useful.  Better yet, link context based help messages to appropriate section in the wiki.  What the hell do all those voting options means?  Well gee, how about a link to voting explained section in the wiki? This ISNT rocket science....

Imagine if BitShares was TurboTax.  Do you think Intuit would take a dump without any help messages and expect to keep their customers?  Surely you can do your taxes from the command line, why wouldn't anyone want to do that? You can Google your way to the answer, if you don't get distracted by a competitor along the way.

I'm a few versions back, so some of these points may be out of date.  But last I checked, the market was still....how do you say 'not sexy.'  Like a fat old toothless hag.  I want a smooth seamless trading experience like Bter. That alone will bring more gamblers to our system than some shitty bingo game.  I like bingo.  But I don't want it on BitShares when basic functions are lacking.  Where are multi-tabbed markets??  I can't trade GOLD, EUR and USD at the same time.  Where is the common panel where I can see all my feeds? Traders need to trade in multiple markets at once - and they need to see when prices move in one common dashboard type panel that's available from everywhere in the app.  Traders need to get in on the action as soon as the price moves.  They can't (and they wont) be bothered clicking back and forth all day.  If it takes 5 clicks to go from one market to another, no one will do it except the religious.  Online poker players don't play on one table at a time, and neither do traders. Multi-tabbed markets will bring move volume than some controversial gimmick. Minimizing the amount of button clicks needed to perform functions is UI design 101.

We are getting sharedropped by PLAY.  Why disrespect their community with this idea? Let them handle gaming.

Its quite amazing all these brilliant ideas that went into BitShares, while the basics keep getting fucked up.  It doesn't matter how far ahead of the curve it is, as long as BitShares can't get the basics right, it will remain a toy for overgrown children, and not a serious investment for mainstream adoption.  If its not easy, no one will use it except the people already using it.

sschechter,
Most of your GUI improvement suggestions are already on developers' todo list: a better help integration is coming; more informative markets directory that shows price movements across all markets; multi-tabbed markets would be implemented later (probably in a couple of months) - there are technical limits but we are working hard to overcome them.
Currently the main focus on a GUI side is simplification and ease of use of the basic functionality like onboarding, registering accounts, making transfers, voting. Market/exchange functionality is the next thing we are going to address.

Offline sschechter

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Re: Controversy is POISON when it divides the community
« Reply #24 on: February 03, 2015, 03:37:40 pm »
Bingo / gambling is out.  I am not looking to push any more controversial forks.

Hurray!  +5% Well done BM!

I think that by now this response would have but obvious...any other answer would be suicide.

What I would like to see next is a re-commitment to building a quality product.  No new features until the UI is something to be proud of.  All the great innovations will be for naught, as people will associate the great ideas of BitShares with shoddy workmanship.  Subconsciously they will say 'see, this is why we need third party exchanges. BitShares tried to make a decentralized exchange, but they couldn't pull it off.'  In their mind, the technology will be a bust when the reality is that the developers weren't interested in finishing the job, but instead starting something new.

I am someone who considers myself an artist.  I am a developer and a hobbyist musician.  I know how hard it is to finish what you started.  The further you make it into a project, the less your efforts seems to have an impact. Software very much follows the principles of 80/20.  When your working on that first 80%, everything seems right in the world, like you can accomplish anything at lightning speed.  Then when it comes down to adding that final 20% polish, it becomes demoralizing as you spend hours to realize that your progress, when described to someone else, sounds like nothing.  But the difference between a project that is buggy and works with workarounds and is only 80% done and one that is 100% done, can be the difference between success and fail.

It doesn't matter if you can functionally accomplish what you set out to accomplish, the rest of the world doesn't see it that way.  Imagine if Peertracks released their product, and the quality was the same as the BitShares wallet...there is no way in hell they could compete with Spotify.  No one would in their right minds would believe the claims Peertracks are making if the product looks like shit.  No artists will sign up either.  Who would want to degrade their own work that way?

In a different music forum, I've seen discussions where people wouldn't use plugins because they hated the UI.  It wouldn't matter if it was the best sounding plugin, if they did not like the way it looked, it would take away any of the fun in using it.  Those people don't just exist, but make up a huge portion of society.  Even though I want to support my own investments and the BitShares ecosystem, trading in the decentralized market is just not fun, and I would rather trade on Bter.  Not only is it not fun, it lacks the tools that actually make trading effective.

So please, no more new features.  Focus on your flagship product, and making whats already functionally done the best that it can be.  Appearances matter.  Finish the job and do it right.

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Offline sschechter

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Re: Controversy is POISON when it divides the community
« Reply #25 on: February 03, 2015, 03:42:04 pm »
sschechter,
Most of your GUI improvement suggestions are already on developers' todo list: a better help integration is coming; more informative markets directory that shows price movements across all markets; multi-tabbed markets would be implemented later (probably in a couple of months) - there are technical limits but we are working hard to overcome them.
Currently the main focus on a GUI side is simplification and ease of use of the basic functionality like onboarding, registering accounts, making transfers, voting. Market/exchange functionality is the next thing we are going to address.

valzav,
Thank you.  This is the response I am looking for.
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Offline BunkerChainLabs-DataSecurityNode

Re: Controversy is POISON when it divides the community
« Reply #26 on: February 03, 2015, 04:26:19 pm »
sschechter,
Most of your GUI improvement suggestions are already on developers' todo list: a better help integration is coming; more informative markets directory that shows price movements across all markets; multi-tabbed markets would be implemented later (probably in a couple of months) - there are technical limits but we are working hard to overcome them.
Currently the main focus on a GUI side is simplification and ease of use of the basic functionality like onboarding, registering accounts, making transfers, voting. Market/exchange functionality is the next thing we are going to address.

valzav,
Thank you.  This is the response I am looking for.

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Offline cass

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Re: Controversy is POISON when it divides the community
« Reply #27 on: February 03, 2015, 05:04:27 pm »
Bingo / gambling is out.  I am not looking to push any more controversial forks.


sschechter,
Most of your GUI improvement suggestions are already on developers' todo list: a better help integration is coming; more informative markets directory that shows price movements across all markets; multi-tabbed markets would be implemented later (probably in a couple of months) - there are technical limits but we are working hard to overcome them.
Currently the main focus on a GUI side is simplification and ease of use of the basic functionality like onboarding, registering accounts, making transfers, voting. Market/exchange functionality is the next thing we are going to address.

valzav,
Thank you.  This is the response I am looking for.

yeah -- all coming together now!  +5%

Right direction IMO !!!
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