Author Topic: Angel Shares Feedback Requested  (Read 48497 times)

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Offline bytemaster

I'm in the same boat as rejectkid. I mined my protoshares for a few dollars worth of electricity on my personal computers which are already running 24/7. Your proposed system will reprice your shares based on input cost. You don't want this. $6/288PTS = $0.02/PTS or 0.00002BTC. I'm sure you PTS price will tank even lower. I noticed it's dropped 20% on bter since I went to bed last night already. Please give up on this idea!

The deal you got was because initial difficulty was too low.  Now mining only pays back 2x input costs.  You got a windfall that is no longer a possibility.

The question that must be asked is this... aside from your 'good will' what value does your windfall provide to the future of PTS.   

What if we had an alternative that would pay you for your good will by having you do something more productive for the cause than burning electricity? 

With the current mining pool infrastructure with PTS, it is already effectively centralized with 3 players signing most of the blocks.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2013, 04:14:45 pm by bytemaster »
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Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline bytemaster

i'll repost this, cause no one reacted - i think this solution would rule out most concerns mentioned here (except the ones not wanting invictus to get some funding)

Maybe the solution really is somewhere in having two assets. PTS decentralized as they were intended. AngelShares as Invictus fundraising but limited to 21 Millions, with a decreasing output every week.
In that way, no one can blame you for not honoring the social contract, because pts holders get at least 10% of every new dac.
Little guy can still mine pts for a while.
Invictus gets funds over a planned period of time, after which it should be able to work without that.
Value of pts isn't inflated.

This is probably what we will have to do politically.

I don't agree that it has to be this way. Are you afraid of the miners? And how are you breaking the social contract? You're moving from 10% to 100% of BTS. If anything, Angle Shares should get more than 100k a week to encourage more DAC funding.

I like how you think, and my primary commitment is to current holders of PTS to make sure I don't do anything to devalue them from their current price if I can help it.   Obviously there are some very major players (Amazon & Lighthouse) that are worried about public perception and I have a lot of respect for their opinion.  That said, I think 99% of the complaints can be resolved in a manner beneficial to everyone.   That is the point of this discussion.

I limited it to 100K per week because the market can only handle so much at a time.  Right now PTS has shown the market can handle about 75K per week and maintain a relatively stable price around $20.   Any more and I would risk devaluing PTS by flooding the market.
For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline coyote47

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I'm in the same boat as rejectkid. I mined my protoshares for a few dollars worth of electricity on my personal computers which are already running 24/7. Your proposed system will reprice your shares based on input cost. You don't want this. $6/288PTS = $0.02/PTS or 0.00002BTC. I'm sure our PTS price will tank even lower. I noticed it's dropped 20% on bter since I went to bed last night already. Please give up on this idea!
« Last Edit: December 15, 2013, 04:11:32 pm by coyote47 »

Offline que23

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i'll repost this, cause no one reacted - i think this solution would rule out most concerns mentioned here (except the ones not wanting invictus to get some funding)

Maybe the solution really is somewhere in having two assets. PTS decentralized as they were intended. AngelShares as Invictus fundraising but limited to 21 Millions, with a decreasing output every week.
In that way, no one can blame you for not honoring the social contract, because pts holders get at least 10% of every new dac.
Little guy can still mine pts for a while.
Invictus gets funds over a planned period of time, after which it should be able to work without that.
Value of pts isn't inflated.

This is probably what we will have to do politically.

I don't agree that it has to be this way. Are you afraid of the miners? And how are you breaking the social contract? You're moving from 10% to 100% of BTS. If anything, Angle Shares should get more than 100k a week to encourage more DAC funding.
PTS: Pa75dEzGkMcnM85hRMbdKiS1YdF81rnSCF

Offline bytemaster

i'll repost this, cause no one reacted - i think this solution would rule out most concerns mentioned here (except the ones not wanting invictus to get some funding)

Maybe the solution really is somewhere in having two assets. PTS decentralized as they were intended. AngelShares as Invictus fundraising but limited to 21 Millions, with a decreasing output every week.
In that way, no one can blame you for not honoring the social contract, because pts holders get at least 10% of every new dac.
Little guy can still mine pts for a while.
Invictus gets funds over a planned period of time, after which it should be able to work without that.
Value of pts isn't inflated.

This is probably what we will have to do politically.
For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline seraphim

i'll repost this, cause no one reacted - i think this solution would rule out most concerns mentioned here (except the ones not wanting invictus to get some funding)

Maybe the solution really is somewhere in having two assets. PTS decentralized as they were intended. AngelShares as Invictus fundraising but limited to 21 Millions, with a decreasing output every week.
In that way, no one can blame you for not honoring the social contract, because pts holders get at least 10% of every new dac.
Little guy can still mine pts for a while.
Invictus gets funds over a planned period of time, after which it should be able to work without that.
Value of pts isn't inflated.
Meet you on STEEM

Offline bytemaster

Do you think Invictus will need to move its HQ away from Virginia to make this change without fearing legal repercussions?

With the money raised we could move it to Hong Kong or other suitable location.  Our team is entirely decentralized anyway.
For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline bytemaster

Where does the 2 million number come from, last I heard it was 100k new PTS per month indefinitely?

PTS will fund new DACS for ever, but BTS will launch long before more than 2 million comes in to existence.  As long as we have DACs in development it makes since to fund them with new PTS. 

We could of course keep PTS unmodified, give PTS their 10% cut in BTS and give Angel Shares the other 90%.... but we thought this plan would be better for current PTS holders.
For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline Lighthouse

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Do you think Invictus will need to move its HQ away from Virginia to make this change without fearing legal repercussions?
Before you say the price of PTS is too high, take a look at theThe Reason.  Protoshares are an entirely new type of Cryptocurrency, one that pays to hold.

Offline bytemaster

Quote
The proof-of-work would be switched to the signature of our private key and we would set up a server to produce one block every 2 minutes.

I have a concern on the security issue. With such approach applied, the cornerstone of a digital currency might be compromised. PTS is in essence a P2P payment network, which is backed by the proof-of-work mechanism with enormous decentralized computational power, be it Amazon clusters, bot-networks or anything else. That's how the system works. You shouldn't simply degrade the conventional mining procedures — even if they generate large billings — since your centralized replacement could not offer the key merit. I understand your intention, but this may not be a clever move.

ProtoShares is different from every other 'coin' in that their value is not based upon anything other than our centralized promise to honor them in future DACs.  Of course our DACs will be as decentralized as possible and that is the goal.  But so long as the issuance depends upon sending us money it must be centralized.
For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline Lighthouse

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Where does the 2 million number come from, last I heard it was 100k new PTS per month indefinitely?
Before you say the price of PTS is too high, take a look at theThe Reason.  Protoshares are an entirely new type of Cryptocurrency, one that pays to hold.

Offline bytemaster

I like the idea, but don't increase the total quantity of BTS.


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We are decreasing the total quantity of BTS by about a factor of 10 from 20 Million to 2 million under this plan. 
For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline quickbit

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I like the idea, but don't increase the total quantity of BTS.


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Offline quickbit

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I like the idea. But don't increase total quantity of PTS.


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Offline bytemaster

We would make it very transparent and any btc block explorer would tell you what you want to know.  We would then provide any easy to understand summary page.


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For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.