Author Topic: Keyhotee Status Update  (Read 389951 times)

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Offline dannotestein

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I'm going to update the KH Founder ID database tomorrow night instead of tonight, as Stan was traveling yesterday, plus I had forgotten about an important US holiday today that took up most of my evening...
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Offline rysgc

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The database versioning code seems to work in preliminary testing. If it passes more rigorous testing tomorrow, I'll update all the KH database structures to support versioning and commit it tomorrow.
Great news!
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Offline Anytime

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When will keyhotee be finished? (with wallet funtion available )

Offline dannotestein

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The database versioning code seems to work in preliminary testing. If it passes more rigorous testing tomorrow, I'll update all the KH database structures to support versioning and commit it tomorrow.
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Offline fuzzy

People who don't do software don't see why it should be any harder to make time estimates about software development than about any other kinds of projects, but they are not unreasonable for thinking that and your PR should take that into account
Hi toast,

Yes, you're right, this is one of those battles that software developers are always having with their managers too, I suppose. I'm not a PR guy, but I guess a PR guy might have trouble explaining the details of software development, so I'll take a stab at it.

Management always wants a hard date for software delivery, whereas the software guys know they can't really guarantee one, because on any reasonable size software project, it's very difficult to scope out enough details of the design ahead of time (nor is it even often fruitful to try to take the "design it all out first" approach, since once you get into prototyping the code, you sometimes find you need to take a different path than you originally anticipated).

Unexpected problems almost always arise in any truly "new" software (as opposed to adding a feature to an existing piece of stable software, where dates can often be set as long as the feature isn't "big"). As an example, in my own personal work in the past few days, I'd hoped to finish up the database versioning code, but I'm only partially done as I've had to fight problems related to register KHIDs with different capitalization and some related issues (collapsing of similar names like qqq and qqqq to be the same name). Fully understanding the problems associated with this (none of these issues were in code that I had personally worked with before), coming up with a solution that put the least demands on Keyhotee founders, then implementing and testing it,  took several days I didn't expect to spend. But any real programmer will tell you this is typical of the job.

I understand people's frustration, especially as, by Bytemaster's own admission, his original deadlines were unrealistic, but all I can really say is that we're competent programmers, we're working as hard as we can, but we don't want to rush the software out before it's well tested. This just results in more problems, and makes it take longer to deliver a correct version of the software, since we then have to work around legacy problems from software delivered too early. Whether it's the end of February, the end of March, or even later, my main goal is to have a solid, upgradeable experience for Keyhotee users once the block chain is launched.

Anyways, I hope none of the above gets anyone too upset. It's just my own personal feelings about software development, and it's not been "vetted" by Invictus (or our PR department).

One thing I can definitely say, is that if you look at all some of the best products on the market in software, it is often the case that the public awaits the projected launch date just to be dissappointed 2, 3, 4 times.  Though this is not always the rule and certainly not the best practice, the community tends to appreciate a polished product even if it frustrates them to launch it late. 

Imo, taking the time to produce a superior product is best, but definitely worth it to provide the community with updates when it is taking longer than planned.  Glad to see that so many changes coming down the pipeline though...
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Offline dannotestein

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I'm not following every thread, so my question is:
Is there a way to quickly check the status of the own Keyhotee founder ID?
(I mean like an online check which just says "Your ID will be in the genesis block" or "will NOT be..." or "is currently unknown"... something like that)
Yes, launch Keyhotee and go to the contact view info for your identity, if it's registered in the name server, it will show points beside the name, like this:

Note this only happens after the Keyhotee rgistration server is updated from the latest web form submissions, which we manually do every couple of days. Next planned update is Friday night.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2014, 02:03:54 pm by dannotestein »
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Offline Gekko

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I'm not following every thread, so my question is:
Is there a way to quickly check the status of the own Keyhotee founder ID?
(I mean like an online check which just says "Your ID will be in the genesis block" or "will NOT be..." or "is currently unknown"... something like that)


Offline dannotestein

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I'm currently working on the database versioning code, other guys are working on gui features, improving build process, etc. I've prepared a report for Stan of all "failed web form" public key updates for KH founder ids, based on data from the founder registration server used by Keyhotee. Stan's going to analyze the results and contact founders if they somehow used an invalid founder code, or send me corrections for cases where a transcription error was made by us when creating the initial registration database. I'll update the founder registration server late Friday based on new submissions to the web form and also corrections from Stan.
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Offline codinat

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Dan,我们也在坚定着信念!相信3i团队!我的2/3pts捐了ags,但持续的影响力是策划部门所必须的,信心非常重要!你们创意很好,产品需要得到检验才能是个伟大的公司。

Offline dannotestein

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People who don't do software don't see why it should be any harder to make time estimates about software development than about any other kinds of projects, but they are not unreasonable for thinking that and your PR should take that into account
Hi toast,

Yes, you're right, this is one of those battles that software developers are always having with their managers too, I suppose. I'm not a PR guy, but I guess a PR guy might have trouble explaining the details of software development, so I'll take a stab at it.

Management always wants a hard date for software delivery, whereas the software guys know they can't really guarantee one, because on any reasonable size software project, it's very difficult to scope out enough details of the design ahead of time (nor is it even often fruitful to try to take the "design it all out first" approach, since once you get into prototyping the code, you sometimes find you need to take a different path than you originally anticipated).

Unexpected problems almost always arise in any truly "new" software (as opposed to adding a feature to an existing piece of stable software, where dates can often be set as long as the feature isn't "big"). As an example, in my own personal work in the past few days, I'd hoped to finish up the database versioning code, but I'm only partially done as I've had to fight problems related to register KHIDs with different capitalization and some related issues (collapsing of similar names like qqq and qqqq to be the same name). Fully understanding the problems associated with this (none of these issues were in code that I had personally worked with before), coming up with a solution that put the least demands on Keyhotee founders, then implementing and testing it,  took several days I didn't expect to spend. But any real programmer will tell you this is typical of the job.

I understand people's frustration, especially as, by Bytemaster's own admission, his original deadlines were unrealistic, but all I can really say is that we're competent programmers, we're working as hard as we can, but we don't want to rush the software out before it's well tested. This just results in more problems, and makes it take longer to deliver a correct version of the software, since we then have to work around legacy problems from software delivered too early. Whether it's the end of February, the end of March, or even later, my main goal is to have a solid, upgradeable experience for Keyhotee users once the block chain is launched.

Anyways, I hope none of the above gets anyone too upset. It's just my own personal feelings about software development, and it's not been "vetted" by Invictus (or our PR department).
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Offline toast

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Given the launch of the genesis block for Keyhotee was publicly announced for New Years Eve, then January and now the end of February it seems pretty apparent progress has not gone to plan.  No commenter has suggested they were experts at predicting progress, I think the better question is what can Invictus do to better manage the expectations of their community?    Daily updates on the core products are a great start and seem to have gone a ways in instilling confidence into the system, but being challenging and passive aggressive responses to the people supporting your work and whose expectations are not being met by your mismanagement does not seem like a wise long term strategy to me.

Embrace your weaknesses, don't get prickly.  We're all humans, we all have failing and we're all working as hard as we can to bring a brighter future into being.   Complaints are critique, and while unvested critique might be noise the signal is listening to those who have enabled your success and continued progress.  Their interests align with yours, that was the whole point of this exercise.

 +5%

People who don't do software don't see why it should be any harder to make time estimates about software development than about any other kinds of projects, but they are not unreasonable for thinking that and your PR should take that into account
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Offline AdamBLevine

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chat功能尽早取消吧,典型忽悠特性。突出加密特性邮件,不提倡用这样贵的资源,实现华而不实的聊天。再说,无法解决的p2p结构造成的延时,chat体验也不会很好。
The chat feature will be mainly used via "direct connect", not via broadcast messaging, so it should be efficient in it's final form. No proof-of-work will be required for direct connections between friends.

what about the group chat ?

btw, the keyhotee progress is much slower than what i expected.  even now you can't release the 'decentralized' features.

What is the source of your expertise in determining an expectation for how long it should take to develop an application?

Given the launch of the genesis block for Keyhotee was publicly announced for New Years Eve, then January and now the end of February it seems pretty apparent progress has not gone to plan.  No commenter has suggested they were experts at predicting progress, I think the better question is what can Invictus do to better manage the expectations of their community?    Daily updates on the core products are a great start and seem to have gone a ways in instilling confidence into the system, but being challenging and passive aggressive responses to the people supporting your work and whose expectations are not being met by your mismanagement does not seem like a wise long term strategy to me.

Embrace your weaknesses, don't get prickly.  We're all humans, we all have failing and we're all working as hard as we can to bring a brighter future into being.   Complaints are critique, and while unvested critique might be noise the signal is listening to those who have enabled your success and continued progress.  Their interests align with yours, that was the whole point of this exercise. 
Email me at adam@letstalkbitcoin.com

Offline muse-umum

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chat功能尽早取消吧,典型忽悠特性。突出加密特性邮件,不提倡用这样贵的资源,实现华而不实的聊天。再说,无法解决的p2p结构造成的延时,chat体验也不会很好。
The chat feature will be mainly used via "direct connect", not via broadcast messaging, so it should be efficient in it's final form. No proof-of-work will be required for direct connections between friends.

what about the group chat ?

btw, the keyhotee progress is much slower than what i expected.  even now you can't release the 'decentralized' features.

What is the source of your expertise in determining an expectation for how long it should take to develop an application?

i am not a coder,  and don't know exactly how long it should take to develop an application like keyhotee. are there any experienced coders willing to make some comments ?

what attracts me most in keyhotee is the concept (by now , only concept) of the decentralized and encrypted communication system with btc/ltc/whatever coin wallets.

but it has been nearly 7 months since the keyhotee was introduced last year on July, and i still can't see those shining parts which will actually make keyhotee valuable.

Offline codinat

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chat功能尽早取消吧,典型忽悠特性。突出加密特性邮件,不提倡用这样贵的资源,实现华而不实的聊天。再说,无法解决的p2p结构造成的延时,chat体验也不会很好。
The chat feature will be mainly used via "direct connect", not via broadcast messaging, so it should be efficient in it's final form. No proof-of-work will be required for direct connections between friends.
+5%

Offline dannotestein

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The Keyhotee registration database queried by Keyhotee is undergoing work for the next 24 hours as we adjust for the capitalization issues, so if you're suddenly shown as unregistered in Keyhotee after previously being registered, don't worry about it yet.
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