Author Topic: A marketing idea? Whitepaper? Strategy? request? Either way I think its is gold.  (Read 38691 times)

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Offline sschechter

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Offline kenCode

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As long as we stay away from MLM "downlines" and just do one-off rewards, ref= links and qr codes, that should be sufficient.
 
Keep one thing in mind here too, there will be many types of companies using the BitShares platform as well, companies that you might not agree with.
I don't agree with banks, but they will be using bitAssets to secure their products and customers' deposits.
I don't agree with governments, but they will be using BitShares for tax collection.
I don't agree with MLM companies, but they'll be using it for distribution services.
 
Let BitShares be BitShares. It's proving to be the platform for economic freedom.
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Offline bobmaloney

The classic Amway business model has been around as long as I have... it must work:
Amway was ranked No.114 among the largest global retailers by Deloitte in 2006, and No.25 among the largest private companies in the U.S. by Forbes in 2012.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amway

Quote
Pyramid scheme accusations

Amway utilizes a tiered distribution and remuneration model (the Amway Sales and Marketing Plan) that promises to reward participants who grow Amway's market share through a combination of sales and recruitment. This tiered distribution model relies on Independent Business Owners (IBOs) acquiring and training further Independent Business Owners, which is the principal characteristic of a pyramid scheme.
Harvard Business School of Leadership, which described Amway as "one of the most profitable direct selling companies in the world", noted that Amway founders Van Andel and DeVos:
"...accomplished their success through the use of an elaborate pyramid-like distribution system in which independent distributors of Amway products received a percentage of the merchandise they sold and also a percentage of the merchandise sold by recruited distributors. "

The "pyramid-like distribution system" of the Amway business model led to Amway being accused of being a pyramid scheme. A 1979 US Federal Trade Commission ruling established that the Amway business model is not illegal in the United States.[citation needed]

Robert Carroll, of the Skeptic's Dictionary, has described Amway as a "legal pyramid scheme", and has said that the religion-like devotion of its affiliates is used by the company to conceal poor performance rates by distributors.[72]

You've got to think bigger, Pinky!

If the dreams for Bitshares and Bitshares technology will be considered successful at the size of Amway, it will make a lot of people here wealthy, but a lot of people are here to share BM's initial world changing vision, too.

The LAST thing I would want to see with Bitshares is to see it compared to or associated with something like Amway - I'm afraid that would stunt growth and lock ourselves down to a limited number of users by building up the near permanent wall that the MLM construct typically does to the most consumers.

I think it is safe to say that for the large majority of the population: If they're selling Amway, walk the other way.

Why?

I think most people get their spidey sense tingling when the product being sold is seeing more incentive laid before the salesman than the consumer.



Also, is there any demographic convergence between traditional MLM consumers and anything Bitshares plans to be over the next 5 years?  I don't see it.

I think of all the people I have known over the years involved with Amway, Avon, Mary Kay, etc. - NONE of them are the demographic I would expect any interest in Bitshares.

Whether or not this is "successful" - we should expect the Amway branding - it will come...has NewMine chimed in here yet?


*Edit: I find something like this more agreeable:


I think you're missing the reality of why people do not like marketing of whatever flavour that is:[MLM/ponzi/pyramid/scams/etc]. Only marketeers like MLM because it's a lazy way to a quick profit. Such an approach considers the product as fodder.. single level marketing reward makes more sense here where the product is its own reward. MLM I suspect also fails because people resent earning money for chumps further up the chain. Flat reward is perceived as 100% of the reward to the one who earned it.


I'd suggest that we keep this simple.

There is nothing wrong with a referral fee as reward but that should be a straightforward and time limited - the big long term reward follows from real growth in the value of BitShares. So you could approach it from that direction too.. reward those who do best after the fact.

X% of fees for a year, seems to me really generous as a long standing commitment and if the delegates are widely happy with that, I'd support it.. getting those involve who can create excitement is worth the cost, if it sees a big uptick in userbase.

If X% of fees is not considered enough in the first year, then you could enhance that with a reward based on a league table.. pay to top 10 promoters and celebrate their success each month. There could be a pool account for that or a delegate.. your chance to grab a fraction of a 100% delegate would motivate more than 10 people.

Certainly such an approach as OP, makes more sense than gifting 100% delegates to those who don't deliver. Not having any referral fee, makes no sense.. the more generous that is the more seductive the idea of promoting BitShares.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2015, 07:09:32 pm by bobmaloney »
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Offline btswildpig

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The classic Amway business model has been around as long as I have... it must work:
Amway was ranked No.114 among the largest global retailers by Deloitte in 2006, and No.25 among the largest private companies in the U.S. by Forbes in 2012.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amway

Quote
Pyramid scheme accusations

Amway utilizes a tiered distribution and remuneration model (the Amway Sales and Marketing Plan) that promises to reward participants who grow Amway's market share through a combination of sales and recruitment. This tiered distribution model relies on Independent Business Owners (IBOs) acquiring and training further Independent Business Owners, which is the principal characteristic of a pyramid scheme.
Harvard Business School of Leadership, which described Amway as "one of the most profitable direct selling companies in the world", noted that Amway founders Van Andel and DeVos:
"...accomplished their success through the use of an elaborate pyramid-like distribution system in which independent distributors of Amway products received a percentage of the merchandise they sold and also a percentage of the merchandise sold by recruited distributors. "

The "pyramid-like distribution system" of the Amway business model led to Amway being accused of being a pyramid scheme. A 1979 US Federal Trade Commission ruling established that the Amway business model is not illegal in the United States.[citation needed]

Robert Carroll, of the Skeptic's Dictionary, has described Amway as a "legal pyramid scheme", and has said that the religion-like devotion of its affiliates is used by the company to conceal poor performance rates by distributors.[72]

It works .
But the bad news about them is so overwhelming .
In every social networking site in major Asian countries , there will be talks about how Amway ruin their family , spouse , friends .
How someone who turned to Amway and changed inside out .......

There is this joke that is actually the case : If the girl you loved in high school who hasn't contacted you for a life time suddenly does call you , it must be for the reason of talking you into Amway .

I haven't read the OP carefully .
Just pop in for Amway ..
« Last Edit: March 26, 2015, 07:19:03 pm by btswildpig »
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Offline Stan

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+5% This is a very good idea

As I've said previously I think BitSapphire & other third party products should incorporate elements of fee sharing too.

ASAP but KISS.. and obviously we'll need a league table to see the real impact and learn from who's doing what and how.. kudos can be as valuable as BTS!

 +5% This is true

BitShares still unfortunately has the possible Achilles heel of being viewed as a crypto-company vs. a crypto-currency which makes it very hard to build network effect.  (A solid crypto-currency is big FU to Governments, banks, central planners and even manipulated precious metals & a no inflation BTSX with funding, rockstar developers & BitAssets was the best crypto-currency on the market & it's constantly growing community & valuation reflected that.  I know some people don't grasp how hard it is to build a community around a variable dilution company but hopefully seeing the massive and consistent decline in BitShares value ( >70% in $ & BTC terms)  these last 6 months you have at least observed in practice that the valuations & popularity of the the two models are world's apart.)

I think moonstone plus something like this could give BTS a shot, it's just uneccasarily hard work when the $ BTS accesses via dilution at this CAP is less than a no inflation BTSX was getting just from fees.

Every Silicon Valley startup works the same way we do - pay early employees with stock to conserve liquid cash.

BitShares is structured for growth into the general population where its self-funding model will enable exponential growth unimpeded by old school crypto-think.  I agree it makes that big old engine a little harder to start among the small crypto investor community, but that's just one of many steely-eyed tradeoffs we have to make when thinking bigger.



Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract of any kind.   These are merely my opinions which I reserve the right to change at any time.

Offline gamey

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I proposed this in November - generating referral link from within the client.   Earn (part of) the fees of whoever signs up via your link.

I've either thought or proposed a similar thing but realized the idea isn't so great because it has huge problems with privacy.
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Offline Stan

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Be careful that we dont look like a ponzi or act like a ponzi.

I can already see DecentralizedEconomics and NewMine's posts in bitcointalk if we do this, accusing Bitshares of being a ponzi scheme just trying to scam people out of money.

Dangit Ander....Foiled Again!

:P

I'm not aying I dont like it, I do!  We just need to do it in a way that people cant realistically accuse it of being a ponzi.

The mere fact that the word has been used here in the forum brainstorming is all that our favorite trolls will need.  Their diseased imaginations and low need to adhere to the truth is all it will take.

Which is great!  They will help call attention to the opportunity with some outrageous headline and the rest of us will use all the eyeballs they attract to get the real word out.

Carry on...  :)



Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract of any kind.   These are merely my opinions which I reserve the right to change at any time.

Offline davidpbrown

Also anyone using the term Ponzi to describe the OP does not really seem to understand ponzi schemes IMO, and maybe they just don't see how MLM works with value-creating products

I think you're missing the reality of why people do not like marketing of whatever flavour that is:[MLM/ponzi/pyramid/scams/etc]. Only marketeers like MLM because it's a lazy way to a quick profit. Such an approach considers the product as fodder.. single level marketing reward makes more sense here where the product is its own reward. MLM I suspect also fails because people resent earning money for chumps further up the chain. Flat reward is perceived as 100% of the reward to the one who earned it.


I'd suggest that we keep this simple.

There is nothing wrong with a referral fee as reward but that should be a straightforward and time limited - the big long term reward follows from real growth in the value of BitShares. So you could approach it from that direction too.. reward those who do best after the fact.

X% of fees for a year, seems to me really generous as a long standing commitment and if the delegates are widely happy with that, I'd support it.. getting those involve who can create excitement is worth the cost, if it sees a big uptick in userbase.

If X% of fees is not considered enough in the first year, then you could enhance that with a reward based on a league table.. pay to top 10 promoters and celebrate their success each month. There could be a pool account for that or a delegate.. your chance to grab a fraction of a 100% delegate would motivate more than 10 people.

Certainly such an approach as OP, makes more sense than gifting 100% delegates to those who don't deliver. Not having any referral fee, makes no sense.. the more generous that is the more seductive the idea of promoting BitShares.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2015, 06:40:46 pm by davidpbrown »
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Offline Empirical1.2

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 +5% This is a very good idea

As I've said previously I think BitSapphire & other third party products should incorporate elements of fee sharing too.

ASAP but KISS.. and obviously we'll need a league table to see the real impact and learn from who's doing what and how.. kudos can be as valuable as BTS!

 +5% This is true

BitShares still unfortunately has the possible Achilles heel of being viewed as a crypto-company vs. a crypto-currency which makes it very hard to build network effect.  (A solid crypto-currency is big FU to Governments, banks, central planners and even manipulated precious metals & a no inflation BTSX with funding, rockstar developers & BitAssets was the best crypto-currency on the market & it's constantly growing community & valuation reflected that.  I know some people don't grasp how hard it is to build a community around a variable dilution company but hopefully seeing the massive and consistent decline in BitShares value ( >70% in $ & BTC terms)  these last 6 months you have at least observed in practice that the valuations & popularity of the the two models are world's apart.)

I think moonstone plus something like this could give BTS a shot, it's just uneccasarily hard work when the $ BTS accesses via dilution at this CAP is less than a no inflation BTSX was getting just from fees.
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Offline Stan

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The classic Amway business model has been around as long as I have... it must work:
Amway was ranked No.114 among the largest global retailers by Deloitte in 2006, and No.25 among the largest private companies in the U.S. by Forbes in 2012.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amway

Quote
Pyramid scheme accusations

Amway utilizes a tiered distribution and remuneration model (the Amway Sales and Marketing Plan) that promises to reward participants who grow Amway's market share through a combination of sales and recruitment. This tiered distribution model relies on Independent Business Owners (IBOs) acquiring and training further Independent Business Owners, which is the principal characteristic of a pyramid scheme.
Harvard Business School of Leadership, which described Amway as "one of the most profitable direct selling companies in the world", noted that Amway founders Van Andel and DeVos:
"...accomplished their success through the use of an elaborate pyramid-like distribution system in which independent distributors of Amway products received a percentage of the merchandise they sold and also a percentage of the merchandise sold by recruited distributors. "

The "pyramid-like distribution system" of the Amway business model led to Amway being accused of being a pyramid scheme. A 1979 US Federal Trade Commission ruling established that the Amway business model is not illegal in the United States.[citation needed]

Robert Carroll, of the Skeptic's Dictionary, has described Amway as a "legal pyramid scheme", and has said that the religion-like devotion of its affiliates is used by the company to conceal poor performance rates by distributors.[72]
« Last Edit: March 26, 2015, 06:35:44 pm by Stan »
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Offline kenCode

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Genius, Max. +5% +5% +5%
 
I foresee something like this too:
https://wallet.bitshares.org/?ref=accountname
Track the ref thru the site, verify conversion, and maybe even split the fees upon first deposit.
if 1 week has passed then
  the wallet site should do an auto-followup with the new user
  burn message ask if they're happy 'burn not necessary?
  link them to bitshares.tv
end if
if the Referrer was a Delegate then
  prompt new user for a vote
else
  provide user with 10% discount on some bitSILVER, good for 10 days
  'introduce them to their very own tech support rep on bitsharestalk?
end if
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Xeldal

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I love this idea!

MLM is one of the most powerful advertising mechanisms I'm aware of, and inspires a truly explosive grassroots phenomenon .  Given that we are decentralized with no real official marketing/advertising, it makes perfect sense to take advantage of something like this.  Its a natural fit for a decentralized system.

All MLM's deal with being called ponzi/pyramid schemes of course, but it is rarely true.  So long as there is a quality product, no one is force to participate in order to use the system, and affiliate income is not solely based on new signups,  we have nothing to worry about.  Even with just 1 referral, if they make 4k transactions(at $.01 ea.) over 20 years, you've recouped your upgrade fee.  You would only upgrade if you feel you can meet that. 

So long as there is 1 person you know,  not using bitshares, it may be worth the $20 for 20 years of tx fee's.  If everyone within your reach already has an account, then obviously you can weigh this fact to help decide whether to upgrade. 

conceivably every single person who upgrades can make more than it cost over 20 years.  Even if every person on the planet already has an account, people are born every day who do not.  And over 20 years need only make 4k transactions or less if they also upgrade.

My math may be a little off of course, and I havn't done any actual population growth sustainability analysis.  but this looks very appealing.  At that level of adoption it wouldn't matter anyways.

This is definitely not a ponzi, but I guarantee it will be called one.   It would be good to have some solid rebuttals for this but ultimately won't matter.  This will grow the system with or without the ponzi stigma.   You shouldn't be afraid of that.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2015, 06:31:56 pm by Xeldal »

Offline bobmaloney

Also anyone using the term Ponzi to describe the OP does not really seem to understand ponzi schemes IMO, and maybe they just don't see how MLM works with value-creating products

But which will go viral first?

BitShares the decentralized exchange?

or

AmwayShares?

Anytime I am approached with anything MLM, my Amway radar and caution level go red.

I think it will be wise to consider possible perceptions/first impressions before going Gung-ho on this.
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Offline fav

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Also anyone using the term Ponzi to describe the OP does not really seem to understand ponzi schemes IMO, and maybe they just don't see how MLM works with value-creating products

 +5%

Offline onceuponatime

This referal program would make it so easy to earn money in a way so different from the original idea of BitShares, that its ponziness would defeat BitShares' original purpose. Yes, it would probably bring many new people to the system. But what kind of people? People, who will suddenly realize how good BitShares are, or people who just want to get rich on the referal program?

From wikipedia:
Quote
Ponzi schemes occasionally begin as legitimate businesses, until the business fails to achieve the returns expected. The business becomes a Ponzi scheme if it then continues under fraudulent terms. Whatever the initial situation, the perpetuation of the high returns requires an ever-increasing flow of money from new investors to sustain the scheme.

I would prefer to stick to the original values we wanted to promote, not the "get rich fast" values. Once the original ideas get implemented, we will earn profit from the right thing instead of this obscure mechanism.

This is not true for BitShares the DAC from Max's marketing proposal. The influx of new users is only necessary to fund the marketing efforts of individuals, not to give profits to the DAC, which can continue on at any point without an influx of new users.

No BitShares stakeholder would be required to participate in marketing, and could in fact do absolutely nothing beyond owning bitshares and get a free ride on the efforts of others (just as many are doing now). Max's plan merely incentivizes those who DO want to put in effort to bring growth to our DAC.