Author Topic: [FYI] Just get e-mail from Ripple  (Read 7784 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline leroyJenkins

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 6
    • View Profile
I feel like this community is like an idealistic hippy from the 60's.  All "fuck the man" and the like but now we are starting to grow up and have kids and houses and bills that need to be paid so we'll just work for the man for a bit till we get ahead...

Offline fuzzy

You missed American Airlines and the other airline involved.

James Rickards claims that an insider(s) knew about the attack and shorted some stocks, people saw the movement and figured somebody knew something they didn't, so they jumped on the bandwagon.  I don't see the proof of false flag there.

There is very little to gain from arguing about 9/11 being a false flag, I feel.  It's like arguing religion.  Not really helping to get your point across, you're not going to change anyone's mind, and chances are you are going to alienate some people.

Personally, I'm an agnostic on 9/11.

Yes I think whitelists are a mark of the beast.  It's like we've come full circle right back to where satoshi started - though I always figured it was where we would end up.

Now we are talking. I actually agree with you on the potential downsides...but then again there are real downsides to shutting down free interaction based on the fear of alienating people. Politically correct is dangerous too...especially when it pressures others to self-sensor. Instead, let's find the stuff we agree on...and there is plenty I'm sure.

As for your second point,  I tend to (sadly) kind of agree. It just seems like too many prefer to be temporarily "safe" over indefinitely free...

If only there was a way to show people how powerful they really are. ..
« Last Edit: April 15, 2015, 02:55:04 am by fuzzy »
WhaleShares==DKP; BitShares is our Community! 
ShareBits and WhaleShares = Love :D

Offline leroyJenkins

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 6
    • View Profile
You missed American Airlines and the other airline involved.

James Rickards claims that an insider(s) knew about the attack and shorted some stocks, people saw the movement and figured somebody knew something they didn't, so they jumped on the bandwagon.  I don't see the proof of false flag there.

There is very little to gain from arguing about 9/11 being a false flag, I feel.  It's like arguing religion.  Not really helping to get your point across, you're not going to change anyone's mind, and chances are you are going to alienate some people.

Personally, I'm an agnostic on 9/11.

Yes I think whitelists are a mark of the beast.  It's like we've come full circle right back to where satoshi started - though I always figured it was where we would end up.

Offline fuzzy

P.S. what we build here today is going to be impossible for any man or even team of men to defeat.

 +5% the final political frontier

also, it reminds me of terminator... and robots

Thanks. My point still remains though...
It does us a GREAT disservice to dismiss the obvious corruption that brought us all to crypto in the first place as "tinfoil hat" stuff.  We should not be afraid to EVER consider even the most unpopular ideas.  In fact it is the unpopular ones that should probably be reasoned out to the largest extent.

If we are afraid to confront the realities of the world in the process of building the new one,  we should question whether or not we should be the ones helping build it...imho.

(And yes...that even means people who disagree with me!) :P
WhaleShares==DKP; BitShares is our Community! 
ShareBits and WhaleShares = Love :D

Offline fuzzy

Let us not forget that most of these really strict know your customer laws came into effect after the False Flag 9/11 attack started the "war on terror" (otherwise known as the war of terror).  So if we are talking about "terrorism" being the main reason for the necessity of "whitelists" and "blacklists", we are talking about changing privacy for all sovereigns based on a threat that is far less likely to threaten the population than, say, getting struck by lightning or dying from falling in the shower. 

I don't feel this is the right place to call 9/11 a false flag attack.

Some people may have a hard time taking you seriously after such a comment.

I am as disgusted as the next guy by the excesses of the war on terror, but I would hate for bitshares to be associated with tinfoil hats.

Not many tin foil hats here. Mostly lots of open minds. The testimony from American Architects and Engineers regarding the impossibility of the official 911 story is overwhelming.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7JCqlF24pI

Be that as it may, I hope you joined our forum today to discuss or learn about BitShares.

Welcome.

p.s. The creation of  BitShares is, in itself, a pretty strong political statement for the security of life, liberty and property.

I have been lurking here for ages. 

I am not looking to argue about building 7 or anything of the like.  It's just a very controversial topic that is going to alienate some people needlessly. 

Convincing me that 9/11 was a false flag isn't going to remove the requirement for kyc.

On your first point...I tend to agree. But then again who better to have these conversations than those who are literally supporting the construction of this new system.

Secondly...I have no clue why everyone seems to think we absolutely need to conform with the messed up system we currently have as opposed to building something creatively destructive that will give power back to the sovereigns who, I think Noone here can argue, have been largely disempowered by the current system.  Do blacklists and whitelists not sound d a hell of a lot to "the mark of the beast" to you guys?

WhaleShares==DKP; BitShares is our Community! 
ShareBits and WhaleShares = Love :D

Offline Globally Distributed

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 54
    • View Profile
P.S. what we build here today is going to be impossible for any man or even team of men to defeat.

 +5% the final political frontier

also, it reminds me of terminator... and robots
« Last Edit: April 15, 2015, 02:06:33 am by Globally Distributed »
"People don't buy what you do, they buy why you do it."  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4ZoJKF_VuA

kudos robrigo

Offline fuzzy

Let us not forget that most of these really strict know your customer laws came into effect after the False Flag 9/11 attack started the "war on terror" (otherwise known as the war of terror).  So if we are talking about "terrorism" being the main reason for the necessity of "whitelists" and "blacklists", we are talking about changing privacy for all sovereigns based on a threat that is far less likely to threaten the population than, say, getting struck by lightning or dying from falling in the shower. 

I don't feel this is the right place to call 9/11 a false flag attack.

Some people may have a hard time taking you seriously after such a comment.

I am as disgusted as the next guy by the excesses of the war on terror, but I would hate for bitshares to be associated with tinfoil hats.

Interesting points.
But then again record shorts were taken out against the airlines just prior to 9/11 attacks.  There was a lot of made on these risky bets by:

Deutsche Bank
Merrill Lynch/HSBC
Morgan Stanley
Bank of America
Raytheon
Lehman Brothers
General Motors
...

FBI Director John P O'Neil quit his job when his investigation of Osama Bin Ladin was blocked.
Top Pentagon officials even cancelled travel due to s"security" concerns.

If you are interested in crypto,  I urge you to ask why.  Are we here just to make money and be the next power arm of the system of debt slavery we currently have?   Or are we here to change the world's monetary control structures to fundamentally uplift and empower others?

As for being a moderator. I only have mod privs over the beyond bitcoin subthread.  As for politics...you can't get politics out of building a new future...unless, of course, there is a supreme leader who cannot be opposed  in thst future. 

I do not expect people to agree with me (though countless facts point to the truth), but I don't expect them to tell me I cannot speak my mind...indeed the beyond bitcoin platform is based on letting people speak their minds.

P.S. what we build here today is going to be impossible for any man or even team of men to defeat.  I prefer a "tin foil hat" point of view over one of willful naivety.
WhaleShares==DKP; BitShares is our Community! 
ShareBits and WhaleShares = Love :D

Offline Globally Distributed

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 54
    • View Profile
p.s. The creation of  BitShares is, in itself, a pretty strong political statement for the security of life, liberty and property.

Ok, true. And if the politics angle brings in more users than not, more power to it.  However, tinfoil hats is a small market.
"People don't buy what you do, they buy why you do it."  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4ZoJKF_VuA

kudos robrigo

Offline leroyJenkins

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 6
    • View Profile
Let us not forget that most of these really strict know your customer laws came into effect after the False Flag 9/11 attack started the "war on terror" (otherwise known as the war of terror).  So if we are talking about "terrorism" being the main reason for the necessity of "whitelists" and "blacklists", we are talking about changing privacy for all sovereigns based on a threat that is far less likely to threaten the population than, say, getting struck by lightning or dying from falling in the shower. 

I don't feel this is the right place to call 9/11 a false flag attack.

Some people may have a hard time taking you seriously after such a comment.

I am as disgusted as the next guy by the excesses of the war on terror, but I would hate for bitshares to be associated with tinfoil hats.

Not many tin foil hats here. Mostly lots of open minds. The testimony from American Architects and Engineers regarding the impossibility of the official 911 story is overwhelming.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7JCqlF24pI

Be that as it may, I hope you joined our forum today to discuss or learn about BitShares.

Welcome.

p.s. The creation of  BitShares is, in itself, a pretty strong political statement for the security of life, liberty and property.

I have been lurking here for ages. 

I am not looking to argue about building 7 or anything of the like.  It's just a very controversial topic that is going to alienate some people needlessly. 

Convincing me that 9/11 was a false flag isn't going to remove the requirement for kyc.

Offline onceuponatime

Let us not forget that most of these really strict know your customer laws came into effect after the False Flag 9/11 attack started the "war on terror" (otherwise known as the war of terror).  So if we are talking about "terrorism" being the main reason for the necessity of "whitelists" and "blacklists", we are talking about changing privacy for all sovereigns based on a threat that is far less likely to threaten the population than, say, getting struck by lightning or dying from falling in the shower. 

I don't feel this is the right place to call 9/11 a false flag attack.

Some people may have a hard time taking you seriously after such a comment.

I am as disgusted as the next guy by the excesses of the war on terror, but I would hate for bitshares to be associated with tinfoil hats.

Not many tin foil hats here. Mostly lots of open minds. The testimony from American Architects and Engineers regarding the impossibility of the official 911 story is overwhelming.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7JCqlF24pI

Be that as it may, I hope you joined our forum today to discuss or learn about BitShares.

Welcome.

p.s. The creation of  BitShares is, in itself, a pretty strong political statement for the security of life, liberty and property.

Offline Globally Distributed

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 54
    • View Profile
Let us not forget that most of these really strict know your customer laws came into effect after the False Flag 9/11 attack started the "war on terror" (otherwise known as the war of terror).  So if we are talking about "terrorism" being the main reason for the necessity of "whitelists" and "blacklists", we are talking about changing privacy for all sovereigns based on a threat that is far less likely to threaten the population than, say, getting struck by lightning or dying from falling in the shower. 

I don't feel this is the right place to call 9/11 a false flag attack.

Some people may have a hard time taking you seriously after such a comment.

I am as disgusted as the next guy by the excesses of the war on terror, but I would hate for bitshares to be associated with tinfoil hats.

moderate the moderator.....

I don't mind seeing opinions - but I agree we don't need strong political opinions tied to bts
« Last Edit: April 15, 2015, 01:22:45 am by Globally Distributed »
"People don't buy what you do, they buy why you do it."  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4ZoJKF_VuA

kudos robrigo

Offline leroyJenkins

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 6
    • View Profile
Let us not forget that most of these really strict know your customer laws came into effect after the False Flag 9/11 attack started the "war on terror" (otherwise known as the war of terror).  So if we are talking about "terrorism" being the main reason for the necessity of "whitelists" and "blacklists", we are talking about changing privacy for all sovereigns based on a threat that is far less likely to threaten the population than, say, getting struck by lightning or dying from falling in the shower. 

I don't feel this is the right place to call 9/11 a false flag attack.

Some people may have a hard time taking you seriously after such a comment.

I am as disgusted as the next guy by the excesses of the war on terror, but I would hate for bitshares to be associated with tinfoil hats.

Offline bitsapphire

I don;t know how they plan on implementing ID verification, but that's essentially our long-term business plan for Moonstone too. The idea is that if you want to trade stocks and bonds and other financial assets on the blockchain you need to be able to white-list IDs which can hold and trade these assets. Gateways would issue these assets on Bitshares.

We think the most elegant way is to add an ID field to each Pub.Key which can hold a certificate on-blockchain from a specific gateway or ID verification service. The certificate would be simply a tag in a way.

If we had this capability and wallet infrastructure now, we would have issued stock for Moonstone instead. We know several other businesses who are also interested in issuing stock legally on Bitshares.

That said, I have the distinct feeling that Ripple is going to go a vastly more restrictive route than our proposal.

Isn't there a way to ensure anonymity AND unique identifiability?   

I can only think of SNARKS but that is way above my head. http://eprint.iacr.org/2013/507.pdf
TBH I don't know anybody who understands it really, but it could be really cool.
Register and get your personal Moonstone Wallet Beta here: https://moonstone.io/login-register.html

Offline bitsapphire

..The idea is that if you want to trade stocks and bonds and other financial assets on the blockchain you need to be able to white-list IDs which can hold and trade these assets.

Why 'need'; and what qualification is required by 'can'?.. Surely, properly all that is needed is a confidence by the buyer that they own that real world asset in a way they can use. I know nothing of the requirements relative to owning bonds and stocks but imagine there is more complexity than there needs to be. Is there an expectation that companies know who they are owned by perhaps?.. Is that necessarily I wonder. A fluid market without restrictions might be better overall??

Companies are contracts (state machines) within the broader contract/state machine of the state. A company that does not operate within a broader contract (such as an enforceable legal system) cannot enforce it's own contract or get into contractual relationships with others without enforcing them itself. So for a company to operate outside the legal system it needs to be able to enforce contracts without a legal system, which is pretty much the definition of a mafia or crime syndicate.

This means that when you buy stock or bonds, you buy a claim onto a contract (e.g. a company) but you by definition also by into the broader contract (the state) making the company contract possible in the first place. So in order for anybody to own any stock or bond in any company, you holding that stock or bond also needs to b possible within the broader contract of the state. This is why gateways are so important as they make it possible to be effective bridges.

However, you can always simply trust the other person or company to uphold any promise (as Invictus did with Protoshares and Angelshares), though the risk/return cost-benefit analysis would look very different.

Rather than have mafia-style contract enforcement (I'd argue that most Governments of today use a thinly veiled version of this too), can't companies and users have trust levels that are logged in the blockchain along with a unique identifier (that is not connected with real world identity)?

Then there would naturally be a market for trust.  So people who are well known and well trusted would receive incentives in the form of discounts (for instance in the case of someone buying from a Amazon, for instance) on purchases because the company itself recognizes that this account has always paid appropriately for the services rendered. 

In this way we bring it to more of a voluntaristic model where trust is not needed, but rewarded nonetheless.

That is possible, as it would effectively lower the information asymmetry among contractors. The questions remains how do you create those trust scores.

In Pactum we are solving that through prediction markets, but not for people but rather for state machines (could be other blockchains, servers, companies, governments, etc). Creating strong enough trust scores for individuals might be too granular and in my opinion not practical. The counterparty risk of individuals is simply always much greater than that of a large, and heterogeneous pool of people. That's why the bigger the insurance pool, the lower your insurance contribution (at least in theory).
Register and get your personal Moonstone Wallet Beta here: https://moonstone.io/login-register.html

Offline Pheonike


It comes to the word 'legal'.

Legal = with permission from authority.