Author Topic: How to regain confidence?  (Read 5510 times)

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Offline Empirical1.2

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Re: How to regain confidence?
« Reply #30 on: April 29, 2015, 01:30:39 pm »
I've bought 700k BTS this week.

I dodged a bullet. I dipped my toe in again with >1m BTS last week when I got excited about BitAssets 3.0 but when I realised how long they would take and because I thought incorrectly Greece would be good for BTC I sold again for a 3-5% loss. Which turned out to be very good move. Phew.

Actually it looks like Greece might have a bank holiday etc. pretty soon, so I would guess for the next week or so you're better off being in Bitcoin.
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Offline nomoreheroes7

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Re: How to regain confidence?
« Reply #31 on: April 29, 2015, 01:37:25 pm »
I've bought 700k BTS this week.

I dodged a bullet. I dipped my toe in again with >1m BTS last week when I got excited about BitAssets 3.0 but when I realised how long they would take and because I thought incorrectly Greece would be good for BTC I sold again for a 3-5% loss. Which turned out to be very good move. Phew.

Actually it looks like Greece might have a bank holiday etc. pretty soon, so I would guess for the next week or so you're better off being in Bitcoin.

Selling pressure looks to finally be slowing a bit around the 0.02 CNY low. We could really use a million+ BTS buy from you right about now Empirical lol. Think of the children!

Offline btswildpig

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Re: How to regain confidence?
« Reply #32 on: April 29, 2015, 01:42:02 pm »
I've bought 700k BTS this week.

I dodged a bullet. I dipped my toe in again with >1m BTS last week when I got excited about BitAssets 3.0 but when I realised how long they would take and because I thought incorrectly Greece would be good for BTC I sold again for a 3-5% loss. Which turned out to be very good move. Phew.

Actually it looks like Greece might have a bank holiday etc. pretty soon, so I would guess for the next week or so you're better off being in Bitcoin.

Selling pressure looks to finally be slowing a bit around the 0.02 CNY low. We could really use a million+ BTS buy from you right about now Empirical lol. Think of the children!

you can't resist the trend ..

I know because my friend put 100K USD single sell order at august last year tried to prevent BTS from rising at only 1/3 of the highest price ... And his order got swallow in minutes ....
这个是私人账号,表达的一切言论均不代表任何团队和任何人。This is my personal account , anything I said with this account will be my opinion alone and has nothing to do with any group.

Offline Empirical1.2

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Re: How to regain confidence?
« Reply #33 on: April 29, 2015, 01:49:00 pm »
I've bought 700k BTS this week.

I dodged a bullet. I dipped my toe in again with >1m BTS last week when I got excited about BitAssets 3.0 but when I realised how long they would take and because I thought incorrectly Greece would be good for BTC I sold again for a 3-5% loss. Which turned out to be very good move. Phew.

Actually it looks like Greece might have a bank holiday etc. pretty soon, so I would guess for the next week or so you're better off being in Bitcoin.

Selling pressure looks to finally be slowing a bit around the 0.02 CNY low. We could really use a million+ BTS buy from you right about now Empirical lol. Think of the children!

That was actually the second time I dipped my toe in again and ate a loss. The last time I said I would wait for something significant or a clear trend reversal. As tempting as BTS is right now I'll try follow that advice this time and wait even if I miss some of the initial gains on the big news.  I'll leave it to better traders than me to call the bottom.
If you want to take the island burn the boats

Offline joele

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Re: How to regain confidence?
« Reply #34 on: April 29, 2015, 02:01:31 pm »
Other cryptos somehow making some buzz, but bitshares has none, it's like dying coin from non bitshares community.

BitAssets 3.0 and other new features should pre announce so it will spread the news before it release.

We need to integrate bitcoin somehow, so everytime there is pre announcement we can post this to bitcoin related forums so they know what is happening with bitshares and news in bitcoin may write-up about it.

just my +5%

Offline btswildpig

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Re: How to regain confidence?
« Reply #35 on: April 29, 2015, 02:10:13 pm »
Other cryptos somehow making some buzz, but bitshares has none, it's like dying coin from non bitshares community.

BitAssets 3.0 and other new features should pre announce so it will spread the news before it release.

We need to integrate bitcoin somehow, so everytime there is pre announcement we can post this to bitcoin related forums so they know what is happening with bitshares and news in bitcoin may write-up about it.

just my +5%

tried that with "the big thing" last year , didn't work . The price started to dropped before the merger even though everybody was excited about the prepaid card plan "good news". In a down trend good news will get swallowed by the trend and bad news will be amplified by the trend .
这个是私人账号,表达的一切言论均不代表任何团队和任何人。This is my personal account , anything I said with this account will be my opinion alone and has nothing to do with any group.

Offline joele

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Re: How to regain confidence?
« Reply #36 on: April 29, 2015, 02:34:42 pm »
Other cryptos somehow making some buzz, but bitshares has none, it's like dying coin from non bitshares community.

BitAssets 3.0 and other new features should pre announce so it will spread the news before it release.

We need to integrate bitcoin somehow, so everytime there is pre announcement we can post this to bitcoin related forums so they know what is happening with bitshares and news in bitcoin may write-up about it.

just my +5%

tried that with "the big thing" last year , didn't work . The price started to dropped before the merger even though everybody was excited about the prepaid card plan "good news". In a down trend good news will get swallowed by the trend and bad news will be amplified by the trend .

It's a third party news, prepaid cards is common in bitcoin, it should be news unique to crypto.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2015, 02:55:52 pm by joele »

Offline vlight

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Re: How to regain confidence?
« Reply #37 on: April 29, 2015, 02:54:18 pm »
How to regain confidence?


Bring back BitSharesX.

Remove parasitic AGS+PTS+DNS+VOTE from the supply. Make it deflationary and remove useless delegate  inflation that was never supposed to be there. Never ever touch the supply again. The collateral for BitAssets cannot be a penny stock.

Current system is a failure and the price shows it!!!! Admit the mistake and recreate the project or this is doomed to be burned to the ground!
« Last Edit: April 29, 2015, 02:57:37 pm by vlight »

Offline hpenvy2

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Re: How to regain confidence?
« Reply #38 on: April 29, 2015, 03:03:27 pm »
How to regain confidence?


Bring back BitSharesX.

Remove parasitic AGS+PTS+DNS+VOTE from the supply. Make it deflationary and remove useless delegate  inflation that was never supposed to be there. Never ever touch the supply again. The collateral for BitAssets cannot be a penny stock.

Current system is a failure and the price shows it!!!! Admit the mistake and recreate the project or this is doomed to be burned to the ground!

To the ground! It's doomed! Villages will burn!  Oh No!  No hope!

Maybe not.

Offline vlight

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Re: How to regain confidence?
« Reply #39 on: April 29, 2015, 03:05:13 pm »
To the ground! It's doomed! Villages will burn!  Oh No!  No hope!

Maybe not.
;)

Offline Empirical1.2

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Re: How to regain confidence?
« Reply #40 on: April 29, 2015, 03:17:04 pm »
How to regain confidence?


Bring back BitSharesX.

Remove parasitic AGS+PTS+DNS+VOTE from the supply. Make it deflationary and remove useless delegate  inflation that was never supposed to be there. Never ever touch the supply again. The collateral for BitAssets cannot be a penny stock.

Current system is a failure and the price shows it!!!! Admit the mistake and recreate the project or this is doomed to be burned to the ground!

I feel dilution was a mistake even cannibalising a successful no dilution DAC and starting with a high CAP it's been unsuccessful at creating more network effect/attracting more users than it took away. MineBitShares does seem to be showing some positive numbers but I'm still not a fan.

It's very hard to close Pandora's box though, (because you set precedent) which is the problem I always had with dilution.


So is this a Christmas Present?

No it's Pandora's Box.




There are so many ways to do incredible marketing.  Can someone explain the fervent push on all fronts this week to inflate the currencies before ANY marketing campaign AT ALL has launched and the effects thereof can be evaluated?

 +5%

Brilliant.   I love the idea.

Although just curios about your 500k Bitcoin user estimation.

I have heard 5 Mill.   With Coinbase having 1.5 million wallets, Blockchain having over 2 million, I think there would be lots more than that.

The last I saw was 1 million Bitcoin users, extrapolated from MtGox leaked info.  But 90% of Bitcoin users are have less than $3500 worth of Bitcoin.  The average amount within that 90% group would be a lot less than that. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=316297.0

 http://www.coinreporting.com/globalstats.php?c=USD#value has 12000 users who actually take the time to track their portfolio. 90% of them have on average less than $600 in Crypto.

Bear in mind they're investors at least. This strategy proposed here is attracting 'spenders' not savers.

Regardless, you won't even get the right demographic anyway imo, with those kind of returns, you will get a network of families, social groups & scammers  recycling an initial investment of a few thousand dollars and fleecing us for 100% returns in less than a month.

Of course, imagine for a second that the numbers were right and added up. The real question is the one Coinhoarder nailed.

What is the cost to BTSX of adding inflation.

I'm not sure what I think about this yet, but my immediate thoughts are not good. We need to think about all the possible implications, be 99% sure it will work, and go over all of the dynamics and economics of it. I think a lot of things could possibly go wrong, it will hurt our image in the cryptocurrency community, and as someone else already mentioned it will give the detractors more ammo to unload on us with.

It could make the rest of the Cryptocoin community look poorly on us as if we will print money at will on a whim. If we do it this once, what's to stop it from happening multiple times?

I have been using the fact BTSX is pretty much the only deflationary Cryptocoin in existence as a selling point. If we are printing money that selling point disappears and anyone that has been saying this looks foolish or like a liar.

If it doesn't work as well as intended it could end up being very expensive advertising, along with Oall of the other negative side effects as mentioned above. The new users getting free money could just dump it all on the market and it backfire on us.

Edit: Of course BTSX is a DAC not a crypto-currency but the potential negative impact could still be catastrophic.

If there are any Chinese speakers could you do a poll or start a thread on the Chinese section and get some feeback there.

Pandora's Box... *inflation*.... can come in two forms "unrestricted" and "restricted"...
There are two kinds of restrictions... rate and duration....
Bitcoin has "restricted inflation" at 10% per year that halves ever 4 years... that isn't pandoras box according to crypto community...
Having a similar plan... Inflation of 10% per year that falls to 1% over 10 years as a MAX inflation, then controlled and directed by delegates and thus ultimately the shareholders who are being inflated.

Like I said elsewhere, network effect is everything and competitors are able to copy the code + add dilution + buy network effect.

You claimed this was attracting the *wrong kind of user*.. the "spenders".   This is actually not about the "spending" which is something we all do.  This is proving to users that they can easily access their savings without spreads... that a dollar in their wallet is a dollar they can spend.   Once they see *that* working then they see the YIELD and become savers. 

You will not attract savers with any yield if they think it is too hard to get in/out of... if there is "too much setup cost / risk".   You are not really giving these people money, you are paying for a test drive and sales pitch.   

If you are worried the inflation (capped at 10%) will cause your BTSX to grow slower than it would without the inflation or even fall in value then you have options of buying BitAssets that pay yield. 

Serious investors with large stakes must approve of the inflation and these serious investors know that using the term "inflation" is FUD when "dilution" and "capital infusion" are more accurate metaphors.  Serious investors don't invest in tech, they invest in people with tech. 

Obviously a DAC with dilution and ability to raise capital can be cloned from BTSX or if BTSX adds dilution then one without it can be cloned.  In fact, both can exist at the same time and the market can decide.    The DAC without dilution can even copy all of the software features paid for by the DAC with dilution and maintain feature parity...  as an "investor" having to place bets on which DAC will be more successful and generate a higher real return... now it becomes far complex than simply saying "hey I was diluted by 10%" in one and "hey I gained 1%" in the other... you have to ask yourself  how much is your 90% worth vs how much is your 101% worth. 

Dilution to pay miners... BAD...   Dilution to get early adopters... good!  It worked for bitcoin.   Think of early Bitcoin CPU mining as dilution to get people to "try the software".  How do you "prove" they have tried the software?  Well Proof of Work!   Proof of Work allowed people to get the coins and USE the coins.... once they realized they had value then it went "viral".   The only problem is Proof of Work is no longer a way to convince people to "try it for free".    It has become a situation where professionals are stealing all of the "free" samples and the coin holders have no way of turning off the tap....


The majority has already come around now to dilution imo. However if BTSX delivers share drop losses and has messed with the 2 billion BTSX to do it. Then you might be kissing goodbye to a dream you didn't need to kill because in reality there wasn't a competitor on our heels to warrant such excessive measures. I would now say there's a reasonable chance (20%> imo) that BTSX will historically become the vessel that advertised the power of BitAssets for a chain that is more decentralised with a hard capped inflation limit perhaps not linked to BitShares.

At the same time, I really think a good BitAsset can attract the masses regardless of the vehicle given the climate we're entering atm. I'll personally buy if BitAssets 3.0 and moonstone work well regardless of the merger and dilution. Though I feel those should be addressed.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2015, 03:21:56 pm by Empirical1.2 »
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Offline vlight

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Re: How to regain confidence?
« Reply #41 on: April 29, 2015, 03:29:54 pm »
I feel dilution was a mistake even cannibalising a successful no dilution DAC and starting with a high CAP it's been unsuccessful at creating more network effect/attracting more users than it took away. MineBitShares does seem to be showing some positive numbers but I'm still not a fan.

It's very hard to close Pandora's box though, (because you set precedent) which is the problem I always had with dilution.

At the same time, I really think a good BitAsset can attract the masses regardless of the vehicle given the climate we're entering atm. I'll personally buy if BitAssets 3.0 and moonstone work well regardless of the merger and dilution. Though I feel those should be addressed.

Dude, i wish there was more resistance to the merger at that time.

It's now obvious that the experiment with the merger and dilution is a failure. Anyone who still doubt that just look at the price and don't fool yourself. How much more you have to lose until you realize this is going nowhere?

Offline Empirical1.2

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Re: How to regain confidence?
« Reply #42 on: April 29, 2015, 03:48:51 pm »
I feel dilution was a mistake even cannibalising a successful no dilution DAC and starting with a high CAP it's been unsuccessful at creating more network effect/attracting more users than it took away. MineBitShares does seem to be showing some positive numbers but I'm still not a fan.

It's very hard to close Pandora's box though, (because you set precedent) which is the problem I always had with dilution.

At the same time, I really think a good BitAsset can attract the masses regardless of the vehicle given the climate we're entering atm. I'll personally buy if BitAssets 3.0 and moonstone work well regardless of the merger and dilution. Though I feel those should be addressed.

Dude, i wish there was more resistance to the merger at that time.

It's now obvious that the experiment with the merger and dilution is a failure. Anyone who still doubt that just look at the price and don't fool yourself. How much more you have to lose until you realize this is going nowhere?

It was very hard to be against the merger as it was basically that or VOTE

https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,10118.msg132097.html#msg132097

Edit: Though I did try

At this point there is no reason to continue this discussion. If you can't understand the competitive advantages that decentralized fundraising gives us, then you should just sell, because it is not changing back in the short or medium term. It's unfair and almost tyrannical, yes, but it is for the best, and if you've trusted bytemaster before then you should also trust him this last time.

On the bright side, this will most definitely be the very last time a centralized choice about the future of the DAC is ever made. From now on, there will be no authority but stakeholders. Should a majority decide to remove dilution in the future when the market cap is huge, it will happen as soon as they say the word (however by then the massive advantages of dilution will be obvious to everyone).

Also I'm tired of the BS argument that a DAC supposedly needs to be deflationary before it can be profitable. That's just complete BS. Buy low sell high due to mass adoption is infinitely more profitable than tiny, utterly insignificant transaction fees burned by the system in a tiny userbase of true believers that have misunderstood austrian economics. Adoption and thus profit comes from innovation and marketing, not circlejerking about deflation.

Please don't tell people there is no point continuing discussions. These are people going to a lot of effort to try think of ways to improve BTS. He is also a loyal early adopter. He also paid 500 BTSX for this translation. I value what he has to say.

I'm just giving my honest advice. There is no way it will change and for their own sake they should rather sell than cling on and try to change it at this point.

Nothing is inevitable.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=x5m1A7zoIcc

Even if it doesn't change, if it doesn't work, I find in general developing talent tends to be weak on behavioural analysis so these kind of discussions help people understand where they might have gone wrong in retrospect and make better decisions for the future.


I think they are working on big things for summer though. I also think an easy to use liquid BitAsset could be successful regardless of the vehicle. Also there is still not a big gap in $ terms between number 4 & 10 on CMC.

« Last Edit: April 29, 2015, 03:55:53 pm by Empirical1.2 »
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Offline NewMine

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Re: How to regain confidence?
« Reply #43 on: April 29, 2015, 04:17:50 pm »
Empirical, what is hilarious about that is, Rune the big supporter of that is gone.

Offline vlight

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Re: How to regain confidence?
« Reply #44 on: April 29, 2015, 04:29:02 pm »

It was very hard to be against the merger as it was basically that or VOTE

https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,10118.msg132097.html#msg132097


VOTE, DNS - are useless things that distract from the real success that was BitSharesX. Now we know that BTSX would have been still more successful than a shitty vote dac that bytemaster was supposed to work for.