Author Topic: NOTES are listed ar CMC  (Read 8062 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline cass

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4311
  • /(┬.┬)\
    • View Profile
█║▌║║█  - - -  The quieter you become, the more you are able to hear  - - -  █║▌║║█

Offline betax

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 808
    • View Profile
Re: NOTES are listed ar CMC
« Reply #1 on: May 12, 2015, 11:48:46 am »
Great, it needs to be fixed the link from website http://www.bitsharesmusicfoundation.org/ to www.BitSharesMusic.info/ which is a go daddy page.
https://metaexchange.info | Bitcoin<->Altcoin exchange | Instant | Safe | Low spreads

Offline cass

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4311
  • /(┬.┬)\
    • View Profile
Re: NOTES are listed ar CMC
« Reply #2 on: May 12, 2015, 12:11:57 pm »
█║▌║║█  - - -  The quieter you become, the more you are able to hear  - - -  █║▌║║█

Offline testz

Re: NOTES are listed ar CMC
« Reply #3 on: May 12, 2015, 12:19:06 pm »

iHashFury

  • Guest
Re: NOTES are listed ar CMC
« Reply #4 on: May 12, 2015, 12:41:52 pm »
Bitshares Music on coinmarketcap.com  8)  +5%

Offline lafona

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 231
    • View Profile
  • BitShares: lafona
Re: NOTES are listed ar CMC
« Reply #5 on: May 12, 2015, 01:30:47 pm »
Nice, with the current Note supply from bitsharesblocks and the price listed on CMC it looks like #23-#24 already, $1.36 million. Good for free advertising. Plus it is probably even higher when you consider the stake not included in that supply number.
BTS Witnesses: delegate-1.lafona     Witness Thread: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,21569.msg280911/topicseen.html#msg280911
MUSE Witness: lafona

Offline liondani

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3737
  • Inch by inch, play by play
    • View Profile
    • My detailed info
  • BitShares: liondani
  • GitHub: liondani
Re: NOTES are listed ar CMC
« Reply #6 on: May 12, 2015, 02:09:22 pm »
+33%   8)

Offline toast

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4001
    • View Profile
  • BitShares: nikolai
Re: NOTES are listed ar CMC
« Reply #7 on: May 12, 2015, 03:22:02 pm »
-5%.  Not called "bitshares music". Wrong icon (pt is not the music chain). Total supply is wrong. Website is wrong.

Whose idea was this?
Do not use this post as information for making any important decisions. The only agreements I ever make are informal and non-binding. Take the same precautions as when dealing with a compromised account, scammer, sockpuppet, etc.

Offline betax

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 808
    • View Profile
Re: NOTES are listed ar CMC
« Reply #8 on: May 12, 2015, 04:02:11 pm »
-5%.  Not called "bitshares music". Wrong icon (pt is not the music chain). Total supply is wrong. Website is wrong.

Whose idea was this?

I thought the same... but might have been wrong
https://metaexchange.info | Bitcoin<->Altcoin exchange | Instant | Safe | Low spreads

Offline Pheonike

Re: NOTES are listed ar CMC
« Reply #9 on: May 12, 2015, 04:05:10 pm »


That's what happens will allow an asset to be traded but don't give any details about it...

Offline .yoshi

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 82
    • View Profile
Re: NOTES are listed ar CMC
« Reply #10 on: May 12, 2015, 04:06:29 pm »
-5%.  Not called "bitshares music". Wrong icon (pt is not the music chain). Total supply is wrong. Website is wrong.

Whose idea was this?

And who can be contacted to get it fixed?

Offline clayop

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2033
    • View Profile
    • Bitshares Korea
  • BitShares: clayop
Re: NOTES are listed ar CMC
« Reply #11 on: May 12, 2015, 04:48:42 pm »
Nice, with the current Note supply from bitsharesblocks and the price listed on CMC it looks like #23-#24 already, $1.36 million. Good for free advertising. Plus it is probably even higher when you consider the stake not included in that supply number.
+5%
Bitshares Korea - http://www.bitshares.kr
Vote for me and see Korean Bitshares community grows
delegate-clayop

Offline xeroc

  • Board Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12915
  • ChainSquad GmbH
    • View Profile
    • ChainSquad GmbH
  • BitShares: xeroc
  • GitHub: xeroc
Re: NOTES are listed ar CMC
« Reply #12 on: May 12, 2015, 05:13:38 pm »
That's what happens will allow an asset to be traded but don't give any details about it...
I honestly blame Peertracks for this! People in the forums are eagerly awaiting a simple "Go!" from cob but have just received a "we are not there yet" or a "we have not yet started marketing" .. and you can see this from reading the lorem ipsum license agreement on peertrack's artist signup.

At least for me, I do not have any idea what to thing of this .. will they fix the webpage? Can we go on grassroots already? Are there some public docs available for BitShares MUSIC at all?
Give BitShares a try! Use the http://testnet.bitshares.eu provided by http://bitshares.eu powered by ChainSquad GmbH

Offline toast

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4001
    • View Profile
  • BitShares: nikolai
Re: NOTES are listed ar CMC
« Reply #13 on: May 12, 2015, 06:04:54 pm »
-5%.  Not called "bitshares music". Wrong icon (pt is not the music chain). Total supply is wrong. Website is wrong.

Whose idea was this?

And who can be contacted to get it fixed?

I asked them to take it down and to wait for the right info from cob or me.

That's what happens will allow an asset to be traded but don't give any details about it...

We've been pretty clear that peertracks will not be all public in the way bitshares is, and are giving everyone an opportunity to get out (at higher than the crowdsale price no less) if they don't like that
Do not use this post as information for making any important decisions. The only agreements I ever make are informal and non-binding. Take the same precautions as when dealing with a compromised account, scammer, sockpuppet, etc.

Offline clayop

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2033
    • View Profile
    • Bitshares Korea
  • BitShares: clayop
Re: NOTES are listed ar CMC
« Reply #14 on: May 12, 2015, 06:21:39 pm »
We've been pretty clear that peertracks will not be all public in the way bitshares is, and are giving everyone an opportunity to get out (at higher than the crowdsale price no less) if they don't like that

The price is now about 70% compared to presale price.
Bitshares Korea - http://www.bitshares.kr
Vote for me and see Korean Bitshares community grows
delegate-clayop

Offline liondani

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3737
  • Inch by inch, play by play
    • View Profile
    • My detailed info
  • BitShares: liondani
  • GitHub: liondani
Re: NOTES are listed ar CMC
« Reply #15 on: May 12, 2015, 06:24:13 pm »
We've been pretty clear that peertracks will not be all public in the way bitshares is, and are giving everyone an opportunity to get out (at higher than the crowdsale price no less) if they don't like that

is this FUD ? Any reason for doing this?
I really can't believe what I am reading!  :-[

iHashFury

  • Guest
Re: NOTES are listed ar CMC
« Reply #16 on: May 12, 2015, 07:23:56 pm »
Or is this a Bitshares private equity investment?

Offline Troglodactyl

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 960
    • View Profile
Re: NOTES are listed ar CMC
« Reply #17 on: May 12, 2015, 07:27:58 pm »
Last I heard, PeerTracks is a closed source, privately managed front-end to the open source BitShares Music blockchain.

Offline Riverhead

Re: NOTES are listed ar CMC
« Reply #18 on: May 12, 2015, 07:34:26 pm »
We've been pretty clear that peertracks will not be all public in the way bitshares is, and are giving everyone an opportunity to get out (at higher than the crowdsale price no less) if they don't like that

is this FUD ? Any reason for doing this?
I really can't believe what I am reading!  :-[

I don't see any FUD. Just a straight answer to what's going on and why.

Offline toast

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4001
    • View Profile
  • BitShares: nikolai
Re: NOTES are listed ar CMC
« Reply #19 on: May 12, 2015, 08:23:27 pm »
We've been pretty clear that peertracks will not be all public in the way bitshares is, and are giving everyone an opportunity to get out (at higher than the crowdsale price no less) if they don't like that

is this FUD ? Any reason for doing this?
I really can't believe what I am reading!  :-[

It's because there's no point answering to huge groups of stakeholders we don't know who only care about short-term returns and generally act like a hivemind. We would rather start at a low price and have real growth than to have a huge speculative market with a potential for big losses for everyone.
Do not use this post as information for making any important decisions. The only agreements I ever make are informal and non-binding. Take the same precautions as when dealing with a compromised account, scammer, sockpuppet, etc.

Offline Ben Mason

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1070
  • Integrity & Innovation, powered by Bitshares
    • View Profile
  • BitShares: benjojo
Re: NOTES are listed ar CMC
« Reply #20 on: May 12, 2015, 08:29:11 pm »
We've been pretty clear that peertracks will not be all public in the way bitshares is, and are giving everyone an opportunity to get out (at higher than the crowdsale price no less) if they don't like that

is this FUD ? Any reason for doing this?
I really can't believe what I am reading!  :-[

It's because there's no point answering to huge groups of stakeholders we don't know who only care about short-term returns and generally act like a hivemind. We would rather start at a low price and have real growth than to have a huge speculative market with a potential for big losses for everyone.

quite right toast - I expect liondani is just looking forward to what comes next for peertacks the same as many of the rest of us.  Chomping at the bit would be an understatement!  :D

zerosum

  • Guest
Re: NOTES are listed ar CMC
« Reply #21 on: May 12, 2015, 08:41:17 pm »
We've been pretty clear that peertracks will not be all public in the way bitshares is, and are giving everyone an opportunity to get out (at higher than the crowdsale price no less) if they don't like that

is this FUD ? Any reason for doing this?
I really can't believe what I am reading!  :-[

Do not worry Dani! Just the next guys that think they are smarter than everybody else, so they will for sure reinvent the wheel. This time it is called "success by pushing your own share price down!".

 You will see! It will be GREAT.
...experiment.

Offline clayop

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2033
    • View Profile
    • Bitshares Korea
  • BitShares: clayop
Re: NOTES are listed ar CMC
« Reply #22 on: May 12, 2015, 11:18:10 pm »
It's because there's no point answering to huge groups of stakeholders we don't know who only care about short-term returns and generally act like a hivemind. We would rather start at a low price and have real growth than to have a huge speculative market with a potential for big losses for everyone.

Do you really believe starting low price can remove speculative investors? Once NOTE is in public, there always exist speculators and true-and-long-term investors. It is impossible that every investors are long-term investors. Now NOTE is experiencing lack of liquidity. So IMHO, listing on CMC is a good for NOTE as well as for us. Also, it's a very effective way to advertise. Just my two cents.
Bitshares Korea - http://www.bitshares.kr
Vote for me and see Korean Bitshares community grows
delegate-clayop

Offline toast

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4001
    • View Profile
  • BitShares: nikolai
Re: NOTES are listed ar CMC
« Reply #23 on: May 12, 2015, 11:29:04 pm »
Maybe "real slow growth" was a bad way to explain. Let me phrase it another way. If you actually believe NOTEs will become an income-producing asset (or something close enough), wouldn't you want them to be as cheap as possible before the system actually launches?  Wouldn't you NOT want the price to be so high that the income stream cannot compensate for the people selling their free sharedrop?
Do not use this post as information for making any important decisions. The only agreements I ever make are informal and non-binding. Take the same precautions as when dealing with a compromised account, scammer, sockpuppet, etc.

Offline clayop

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2033
    • View Profile
    • Bitshares Korea
  • BitShares: clayop
Re: NOTES are listed ar CMC
« Reply #24 on: May 12, 2015, 11:32:31 pm »
Maybe "real slow growth" was a bad way to explain. Let me phrase it another way. If you actually believe NOTEs will become an income-producing asset (or something close enough), wouldn't you want them to be as cheap as possible before the system actually launches?  Wouldn't you NOT want the price to be so high that the income stream cannot compensate for the people selling their free sharedrop?

This is way better explanation. So like...
Bitshares private equity investment
Bitshares Korea - http://www.bitshares.kr
Vote for me and see Korean Bitshares community grows
delegate-clayop

zerosum

  • Guest
Re: NOTES are listed ar CMC
« Reply #25 on: May 12, 2015, 11:41:06 pm »
Maybe "real slow growth" was a bad way to explain. Let me phrase it another way. If you actually believe NOTEs will become an income-producing asset (or something close enough), wouldn't you want them to be as cheap as possible before the system actually launches?  Wouldn't you NOT want the price to be so high that the income stream cannot compensate for the people selling their free sharedrop?

Talking about my situation only.

The shares I bought from the IPO are 4-5 times more than the one from the "free share drop" (although I paid to buy them BTC I donated to the AGS  btw).

So no, I am not particularly happy if somebody got my $1/share in the ipo, and then makes moves so the price moves down to $0.20/share and he ends up with my BTC + far more shares for himself at lower price....

my 2 note-cents

Offline mf-tzo

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1725
    • View Profile
Re: NOTES are listed ar CMC
« Reply #26 on: May 13, 2015, 12:28:09 pm »
Irrelevant but a better explanation of where NOTES derive their value would be nice..

I think I understand the value from artist coins (although even that not entirely) but NOTES?? Why do I need NOTES and not invest in whichever artist coin I like?

Sold my NOTES already to buy BTS few weeks ago. At least BTS I know what I am buying..It would be nice if we knew more things about NOTES so I may get some back..
@Toast care to explain a bit more or you prefer new investors outside crypto and don't care about what current NOTES investors think?
Thanks

Offline Chuckone

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 314
    • View Profile
Re: NOTES are listed ar CMC
« Reply #27 on: May 13, 2015, 01:20:36 pm »
We've been pretty clear that peertracks will not be all public in the way bitshares is, and are giving everyone an opportunity to get out (at higher than the crowdsale price no less) if they don't like that

is this FUD ? Any reason for doing this?
I really can't believe what I am reading!  :-[

It's because there's no point answering to huge groups of stakeholders we don't know who only care about short-term returns and generally act like a hivemind. We would rather start at a low price and have real growth than to have a huge speculative market with a potential for big losses for everyone.

I understand your point of feeling not so entitled to give explanations to people you don't know (and who might only be interested in short term profit, but that's not the point). But in my perspective, the point is that without those people you don't know (IPO donators) that contributed to the Bitshares Music pre-sale, there wouldn't be any money for the project to lift-off.

This project is very secretive by nature, and there are a lot of unknowns about the actual Bitshares Music model. What I want to point though is that revealing some details about this model without revealing the "secret sauce" wouldn't harm the project so much, and shareholders wouldn't feel their concerns/questions are dismissed. If you were dealing with VC or angel investors you would have to disclose MUCH more details. I'm not asking to see the blue prints of the whole model, just a courteous answer when IPO shareholders have questions, because without them the project wouldn't have the funds it currently does. And a courteous answer can be "We cannot disclose that information just yet".

You even mentionned that Bitshares Music isn't the name the Music blockchain will officially have. What will it be? Is that part of the big secret too or is it not just defined yet?

Also, I understand Peertracks development is being done in parallel to the Bitshares Music blockchain, but that it is privately held by a few shareholders. Up to now, what percentage of the crowdfunding money went into developing Peertracks compared to the music blockchain? Maybe @cob might be able to answer this one. I know this question have already been asked, but IIRC there wasn't a crystal clear answer. That answer matters, because my initial understanding when I donated to the pre-sale was that the money was to be used to develop the blockchain, not some privately held front-end.

In the end, I won't be bitching around if the added value Peertracks gives to the music blockchain is significant enough to compensate for the fact Peertracks used part of the crowdfunding for development. It's an ecosystem, and without the growth of Peertracks there won't be any growth for the music blockchain. All I want to do is point to the fact that we don't know.

Lack of transparency can easily lead to speculation.

Too much transparency is worst, it creates panic.

Well, I guess just enough would be best ;)



Offline CLains

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2606
    • View Profile
  • BitShares: clains
Re: NOTES are listed ar CMC
« Reply #28 on: May 13, 2015, 06:13:42 pm »
Who would you ideally want as an investor? Resourceful, intelligent people who HODL long term and contribute value to the project. Whatever you say or not say, do or don't do publicly, will shape the demographic who are invested in the project. All in all it becomes an elaborate game to speak in such a way as to reward who you ideally want rewarded. You can't have it both ways, as a higher cap means shares are more expensive for X, while a lower cap means the shares of Y are getting sold.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2015, 06:15:24 pm by CLains »

Offline mf-tzo

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1725
    • View Profile
Re: NOTES are listed ar CMC
« Reply #29 on: May 13, 2015, 06:21:53 pm »
Who would you ideally want as an investor? Resourceful, intelligent people who HODL long term and contribute value to the project. Whatever you say or not say, do or don't do publicly, will shape the demographic who are invested in the project. All in all it becomes an elaborate game to speak in such a way as to reward who you want rewarded.

I must be one of the biggest bug holders in the history of cryptocurencies..I keep my BTS no matter the market cap 10,20,100 mil..irrelevant.. And I keep them because at least I have an idea of what BTS does and what tries to achieve long term..

I seriously want to hold NOTES as well..I just don't know why..And I wish someone could just explain me why...I guess I forgot their purpose with all the changes all the time so just a reminder would be sufficient..From my perspective I can see value on artist coins, but I don't understand why these need to be traded in Bitshares Music  and where NOTES value is derived from. The artist coins could just as well be UIA on Bitshares exchange right?..I am sure I am missing something..So if the devs don't care to enlighten us, maybe you can enlighten me why I should keep NOTES..
Thanks

Offline clayop

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2033
    • View Profile
    • Bitshares Korea
  • BitShares: clayop
Re: NOTES are listed ar CMC
« Reply #30 on: May 13, 2015, 07:27:35 pm »
IMO, there is no reason to be against listing NOTE on CMC. More information will attract investors (as well as speculators), at least they will know that Bitshares Music (Temporally) exists.
Bitshares Korea - http://www.bitshares.kr
Vote for me and see Korean Bitshares community grows
delegate-clayop

Offline cube

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1404
  • Bit by bit, we will get there!
    • View Profile
  • BitShares: bitcube
Re: NOTES are listed ar CMC
« Reply #31 on: May 14, 2015, 03:30:32 pm »
Maybe "real slow growth" was a bad way to explain. Let me phrase it another way. If you actually believe NOTEs will become an income-producing asset (or something close enough), wouldn't you want them to be as cheap as possible before the system actually launches?  Wouldn't you NOT want the price to be so high that the income stream cannot compensate for the people selling their free sharedrop?

I love this 'real growth and not hype' plan for NOTES.  +5%

Why is NOTES listed on CMC when there is absolutely nothing to show yet?   
ID: bitcube
bitcube is a dedicated witness and committe member. Please vote for bitcube.

Offline Shentist

  • Board Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1601
    • View Profile
    • metaexchange
  • BitShares: shentist
Re: NOTES are listed ar CMC
« Reply #32 on: May 14, 2015, 03:45:41 pm »
Maybe "real slow growth" was a bad way to explain. Let me phrase it another way. If you actually believe NOTEs will become an income-producing asset (or something close enough), wouldn't you want them to be as cheap as possible before the system actually launches?  Wouldn't you NOT want the price to be so high that the income stream cannot compensate for the people selling their free sharedrop?

I love this 'real growth and not hype' plan for NOTES.  +5%

Why is NOTES listed on CMC when there is absolutely nothing to show yet?

because you made it liquid!!!

Offline donkeypong

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2329
    • View Profile
Re: NOTES are listed ar CMC
« Reply #33 on: May 14, 2015, 07:42:51 pm »
We've been pretty clear that peertracks will not be all public in the way bitshares is, and are giving everyone an opportunity to get out (at higher than the crowdsale price no less) if they don't like that

is this FUD ? Any reason for doing this?
I really can't believe what I am reading!  :-[

It's because there's no point answering to huge groups of stakeholders we don't know who only care about short-term returns and generally act like a hivemind. We would rather start at a low price and have real growth than to have a huge speculative market with a potential for big losses for everyone.

You guys have been fully transparent about the fact that it needs to be a bit secretive. There is just too much potential competition from deeper pockets and PeerTracks needs to have an immediate market edge. I fully support the need to keep most of the project 'in house' until it's ready to launch.

Offline cube

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1404
  • Bit by bit, we will get there!
    • View Profile
  • BitShares: bitcube
Re: NOTES are listed ar CMC
« Reply #34 on: May 21, 2015, 08:58:16 am »
Maybe "real slow growth" was a bad way to explain. Let me phrase it another way. If you actually believe NOTEs will become an income-producing asset (or something close enough), wouldn't you want them to be as cheap as possible before the system actually launches?  Wouldn't you NOT want the price to be so high that the income stream cannot compensate for the people selling their free sharedrop?

I love this 'real growth and not hype' plan for NOTES.  +5%

Why is NOTES listed on CMC when there is absolutely nothing to show yet?

because you made it liquid!!!

Liquidity for a non-existence/not-ready-to-exist product?  I am not sure who will benefit from that?  Perhaps the speculators?  NOTES has to  be more than that.
ID: bitcube
bitcube is a dedicated witness and committe member. Please vote for bitcube.

Offline santaclause102

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2486
    • View Profile
Re: NOTES are listed ar CMC
« Reply #35 on: May 21, 2015, 10:55:28 am »
We've been pretty clear that peertracks will not be all public in the way bitshares is, and are giving everyone an opportunity to get out (at higher than the crowdsale price no less) if they don't like that

is this FUD ? Any reason for doing this?
I really can't believe what I am reading!  :-[

It's because there's no point answering to huge groups of stakeholders we don't know who only care about short-term returns and generally act like a hivemind. We would rather start at a low price and have real growth than to have a huge speculative market with a potential for big losses for everyone.
I am completely fine with not being completely public and a low price and long term real growth!

The only thing I would like to know is whether the peertracks team's profit / monetazation model is to increase the value of notes? I.e. whether the incentives between note holders and the peertracks team are aligned?

Offline d3adh3ad

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 26
    • View Profile
Re: NOTES are listed ar CMC
« Reply #36 on: May 21, 2015, 11:27:13 am »

Wouldn't you NOT want the price to be so high that the income stream cannot compensate for the people selling their free sharedrop?

Yes.  http://mashable.com/2015/04/12/silicon-valley-season-2-premiere-recap/


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Offline christo

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 25
    • View Profile
Re: NOTES are listed ar CMC
« Reply #37 on: June 02, 2015, 06:48:24 am »
...
Up to now, what percentage of the crowdfunding money went into developing Peertracks compared to the music blockchain? Maybe @cob might be able to answer this one. I know this question have already been asked, but IIRC there wasn't a crystal clear answer. That answer matters, because my initial understanding when I donated to the pre-sale was that the money was to be used to develop the blockchain, not some privately held front-end.

Bravo! I asked this question and was told to wait a few months until March. Well it's June now and there is still no answer to this basic question.

What is being done with the money? How much is being put into a private company called PeerTracks and how much is being put into a blockchain resource that we can all use whether it is called BitShares Music or anything else?

When the answer is missing, the reasonable conclusion is that the people who have the money want to spend it without being accountable for how they spend it. (edit: and that's putting it very nicely!)
« Last Edit: June 02, 2015, 06:51:32 am by christo »

Offline Ben Mason

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1070
  • Integrity & Innovation, powered by Bitshares
    • View Profile
  • BitShares: benjojo
Re: NOTES are listed ar CMC
« Reply #38 on: June 02, 2015, 10:40:09 am »
...
Up to now, what percentage of the crowdfunding money went into developing Peertracks compared to the music blockchain? Maybe @cob might be able to answer this one. I know this question have already been asked, but IIRC there wasn't a crystal clear answer. That answer matters, because my initial understanding when I donated to the pre-sale was that the money was to be used to develop the blockchain, not some privately held front-end.

Bravo! I asked this question and was told to wait a few months until March. Well it's June now and there is still no answer to this basic question.

What is being done with the money? How much is being put into a private company called PeerTracks and how much is being put into a blockchain resource that we can all use whether it is called BitShares Music or anything else?

When the answer is missing, the reasonable conclusion is that the people who have the money want to spend it without being accountable for how they spend it. (edit: and that's putting it very nicely!)
I'm not chasing you around christo, promise  ;)  I just wanted to add a different perspective.....have you considered that there might be negotiations going on to bring Peertracks onto the main Bitshares blockchain?   

Offline xeroc

  • Board Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12915
  • ChainSquad GmbH
    • View Profile
    • ChainSquad GmbH
  • BitShares: xeroc
  • GitHub: xeroc
Re: NOTES are listed ar CMC
« Reply #39 on: June 02, 2015, 10:57:28 am »
I'm not chasing you around christo, promise  ;)  I just wanted to add a different perspective.....have you considered that there might be negotiations going on to bring Peertracks onto the main Bitshares blockchain?   
This would be so ... so ... bam!!

Also, recall the last dev hangout with BM where he said that there will be IP on the source code and every company wanting to fork needs to get a license to do so ..
Hence, BitShares as a software has a head start ..
and BitShares as a community .. yhea .. let's say Apple will have it's problems bootstrapping something similar with their costumers ..
Give BitShares a try! Use the http://testnet.bitshares.eu provided by http://bitshares.eu powered by ChainSquad GmbH

Offline christo

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 25
    • View Profile
Re: NOTES are listed ar CMC
« Reply #40 on: June 02, 2015, 11:00:21 am »
That would be worse. This is not only the way it should have been done, but after fundraising for a separate blockchain and spending all the money, you're suggesting they don't even build it and we all should have been using the original BitShares blockchain all along!?

Offline xeroc

  • Board Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12915
  • ChainSquad GmbH
    • View Profile
    • ChainSquad GmbH
  • BitShares: xeroc
  • GitHub: xeroc
Re: NOTES are listed ar CMC
« Reply #41 on: June 02, 2015, 11:06:51 am »
That would be worse. This is not only the way it should have been done, but after fundraising for a separate blockchain and spending all the money, you're suggesting they don't even build it and we all should have been using the original BitShares blockchain all along!?
If whatever PEETRACKS is doing with blockchain was already possible with BitShares I would agree ... But I don't think it is ..
Also, IIRC and they are going to offer streaming in the MVP already .. then they will need to do alot of development at the frontend and server tech too .. The Peertracks business is NOT just a blockchain .. it's more than that .. and does cost money to develop and maintain .. independent of the ACTUAL blockchain

Disclaimer: I am not defending the secrecy around Peertracks and MUSIC .. I'd rather point out to you that Peertracks is not just a blockchain ..
Give BitShares a try! Use the http://testnet.bitshares.eu provided by http://bitshares.eu powered by ChainSquad GmbH

Offline Chuckone

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 314
    • View Profile
Re: NOTES are listed ar CMC
« Reply #42 on: June 02, 2015, 12:02:47 pm »

Also, IIRC and they are going to offer streaming in the MVP already .. then they will need to do alot of development at the frontend and server tech too .. The Peertracks business is NOT just a blockchain .. it's more than that .. and does cost money to develop and maintain .. independent of the ACTUAL blockchain

Disclaimer: I am not defending the secrecy around Peertracks and MUSIC .. I'd rather point out to you that Peertracks is not just a blockchain ..

All you say makes perfect sense. The only issue I see is that the pre-sale investors don't have ANY stake in Peertracks itself. It is privately owned by very few people. I'll try to formulate this politely, but using the Bitshares Music pre-sale money to develop a privately owned company raises some serious ethical questions.

Offline xeroc

  • Board Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12915
  • ChainSquad GmbH
    • View Profile
    • ChainSquad GmbH
  • BitShares: xeroc
  • GitHub: xeroc
Re: NOTES are listed ar CMC
« Reply #43 on: June 02, 2015, 12:15:09 pm »
All you say makes perfect sense. The only issue I see is that the pre-sale investors don't have ANY stake in Peertracks itself. It is privately owned by very few people. I'll try to formulate this politely, but using the Bitshares Music pre-sale money to develop a privately owned company raises some serious ethical questions.
I agree. Investors have bought into BitShares MUSIC .. not peertracks ...
some clarification would be good
Give BitShares a try! Use the http://testnet.bitshares.eu provided by http://bitshares.eu powered by ChainSquad GmbH

Offline Ben Mason

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1070
  • Integrity & Innovation, powered by Bitshares
    • View Profile
  • BitShares: benjojo
Re: NOTES are listed ar CMC
« Reply #44 on: June 02, 2015, 12:23:30 pm »
All you say makes perfect sense. The only issue I see is that the pre-sale investors don't have ANY stake in Peertracks itself. It is privately owned by very few people. I'll try to formulate this politely, but using the Bitshares Music pre-sale money to develop a privately owned company raises some serious ethical questions.
I agree. Investors have bought into BitShares MUSIC .. not peertracks ...
some clarification would be good
i too agree with this concern Chuckone....for this project to have any prospect of success, it must adhere to the highest standards for integrity.

Offline Russ Hanneman

HOW I MAKE OVER $120,000 A YEAR WITH BITCOIN ... http://goo.gl/mKwC3i
BitShares Insider Trading Network - Join Today! ... https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,16622.0.html

Offline christo

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 25
    • View Profile
Re: NOTES are listed ar CMC
« Reply #46 on: June 03, 2015, 12:01:32 am »
That would be worse. This is not only the way it should have been done, but after fundraising for a separate blockchain and spending all the money, you're suggesting they don't even build it and we all should have been using the original BitShares blockchain all along!?
If whatever PEETRACKS is doing with blockchain was already possible with BitShares I would agree ... But I don't think it is ..
Also, IIRC and they are going to offer streaming in the MVP already .. then they will need to do alot of development at the frontend and server tech too .. The Peertracks business is NOT just a blockchain .. it's more than that .. and does cost money to develop and maintain .. independent of the ACTUAL blockchain

Disclaimer: I am not defending the secrecy around Peertracks and MUSIC .. I'd rather point out to you that Peertracks is not just a blockchain ..

I'm not saying Peertracks is not just a blockchain, I'm saying the opposite. Peertracks not a blockchain at all.

In the April update Cob said

Quote
The front end (the PeerTracks web app MVP) is complete and is being readied to plug into the music blockchain. A few pioneer artists will be able to create their profile and token as soon as the blockchain is completed!
The blockchain itself is being built as you read this. Most of it is complete and we are approaching testing phase.

Great the testing phase must surely be here by now since that was almost two months ago. The front-end is done (that's the bit that is privately owned by Peertracks) and the Blockchain is "being built as you read this". Well I guess since we're still reading this it's still being built.

When will it be released? "When it's done". Can we see evidence of progress? "No". Can we have detailed info on the process or the work? "No." What about some hint about the way the money has been spent? "No."

The consolation prize is that people can "sell their notes". Well guess what? I happen to actually care about the purpose of the project, the creation of an alternative system for music distribution and commerce.

I'm not saying they owe me this. I'm saying my personal assessment of their prospects is based on a demonstrated record of software releases and their response to questions like these (or lack thereof) - not to the number of PR events they report.

Perhaps some more of you should consider this method of assessment for this and all crypto projects. Or perhaps you're blinded by sunk cost fallacy.

The only reason I'm posting this is because I'm surprised there is so little evidence-based appraisal of the health of this project on a forum that is totally dominated by this project's claims in absence of proof.

edits: added strikethrough on a couple of grammatical and typo errors
« Last Edit: June 03, 2015, 01:06:38 am by christo »

Offline oco101

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 586
    • View Profile
Re: NOTES are listed ar CMC
« Reply #47 on: June 03, 2015, 12:42:18 am »
That would be worse. This is not only the way it should have been done, but after fundraising for a separate blockchain and spending all the money, you're suggesting they don't even build it and we all should have been using the original BitShares blockchain all along!?
If whatever PEETRACKS is doing with blockchain was already possible with BitShares I would agree ... But I don't think it is ..
Also, IIRC and they are going to offer streaming in the MVP already .. then they will need to do alot of development at the frontend and server tech too .. The Peertracks business is NOT just a blockchain .. it's more than that .. and does cost money to develop and maintain .. independent of the ACTUAL blockchain

Disclaimer: I am not defending the secrecy around Peertracks and MUSIC .. I'd rather point out to you that Peertracks is not just a blockchain ..

I'm not saying Peertracks is not just a blockchain, I'm saying the opposite. Peertracks not a blockchain at all.

In the April update Cob said

Quote
The front end (the PeerTracks web app MVP) is complete and is being readied to plug into the music blockchain. A few pioneer artists will be able to create their profile and token as soon as the blockchain is completed!
The blockchain itself is being built as you read this. Most of it is complete and we are approaching testing phase.

Great the testing phase must surely be here by now since that was almost two months ago. The front-end is done (that's the bit that is privately owned by Peertracks) and the Blockchain is "being built as you read this". Well I guess since we're still reading this it's still being built.

When will it be released? "When it's done". Can we see evidence of progress? "No". Can we have detailed info on the process or the work? "No." What about some hint about the way the money has been spent? "No."

The consolation prize is that people can "sell their notes". Well guess what? I happen to actually care about the purpose of the project, the creation of an alternative system for music distribution and commerce.

I'm not saying they owe me this. I'm saying my personal assessment of their prospects is based on a demonstrated record of software releases and their response to questions like these (or lack thereof) - not to the number of PR events they report.

Perhaps some more of you should consider this method of assessment for this and all crypto projects. Or perhaps you're blinded by sunk cost fallacy.

The only reason I'm posting this is because I'm surprised there is so little evidence-based appraisal of the health of this project on a forum that is totally dominated by this project's claims in absence of proof.

+1 +1 +1  I totally agree. Somehow I'm still believing in this project and I'm still trusting this team for now....
Without revealing any of the secret sauce, they could still answer a lot of questions, I'm not saying that they should spend their time in this forum, but some of the question raised are important and easy to address, why they are not doing it hard to understand it is pretty sad ...... I will add one more question to the list : Is Eddie Corral still on the team ?

Offline toast

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4001
    • View Profile
  • BitShares: nikolai
Re: NOTES are listed ar CMC
« Reply #48 on: June 03, 2015, 01:17:42 am »
There's still a proper update vetted by cedric/eddie coming but some of this speculation needs to be addressed:

* There is still a blockchain. We will gradually increase the size of test net iterations until it's at a point where we start preserving balances and/or state across version. That's a summary of what all we want to reveal until we have more information after midem.
* Notes will still have voting power and will try to capture income.
* Eddie is still on the team and is the main reason the project is worth anything IMO.
* The *secret sauce* is a centralized monetization strategy for a service which DAC cannot supply directly. It shouldn't be an excuse for anything.
Do not use this post as information for making any important decisions. The only agreements I ever make are informal and non-binding. Take the same precautions as when dealing with a compromised account, scammer, sockpuppet, etc.

Offline clayop

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2033
    • View Profile
    • Bitshares Korea
  • BitShares: clayop
Re: NOTES are listed ar CMC
« Reply #49 on: June 03, 2015, 02:38:02 am »
* The *secret sauce* is a centralized monetization strategy for a service which DAC cannot supply directly. It shouldn't be an excuse for anything.

USD <> NoteUSD, USD <> Note gateway?  :D
Bitshares Korea - http://www.bitshares.kr
Vote for me and see Korean Bitshares community grows
delegate-clayop

Offline Ben Mason

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1070
  • Integrity & Innovation, powered by Bitshares
    • View Profile
  • BitShares: benjojo
Re: NOTES are listed ar CMC
« Reply #50 on: June 03, 2015, 06:15:58 am »
There's still a proper update vetted by cedric/eddie coming but some of this speculation needs to be addressed:

* There is still a blockchain. We will gradually increase the size of test net iterations until it's at a point where we start preserving balances and/or state across version. That's a summary of what all we want to reveal until we have more information after midem.
* Notes will still have voting power and will try to capture income.
* Eddie is still on the team and is the main reason the project is worth anything IMO.
* The *secret sauce* is a centralized monetization strategy for a service which DAC cannot supply directly. It shouldn't be an excuse for anything.
with all due respect to eddie, if a person is the main reason this project is worth anything, then it sounds as though something has gone terribly wrong.  The disruptive technology which enabled a new music distribution platform was supposed to be where the value was. I hate to say it, but christo's concerns seem to be more justified than my faith. I wish I could get a straight answer for why midem means anything?  I suspect it's because peertracks is not the gateway to a viral decentralized music platform that I bought into. I hope this update from Eddie and Cob is thorough, now is the time for complete transparency.

Offline liondani

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3737
  • Inch by inch, play by play
    • View Profile
    • My detailed info
  • BitShares: liondani
  • GitHub: liondani
Re: NOTES are listed ar CMC
« Reply #51 on: June 03, 2015, 07:28:18 am »
* Eddie is still on the team and is the main reason the project is worth anything IMO.

"stil" ? 
Are you?

... so the project has only one point of failure? Must we pray that nobody from the big players on Midem make him a better offer...?

Offline .yoshi

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 82
    • View Profile
Re: NOTES are listed ar CMC
« Reply #52 on: June 03, 2015, 03:17:31 pm »
c'mon guys, is it really that surprising that eddie, an incumbent in an industry known for exclusivity, plays a critical role on this project?

dan was the only reason bitshares was worth anything for a long time. hth

Tuck Fheman

  • Guest
Re: NOTES are listed ar CMC
« Reply #53 on: June 03, 2015, 09:25:47 pm »
dan was the only reason bitshares was worth anything for a long time. hth

Stan's meme's are what brought me here, and it's the reason I stay.

If you haven't noticed, meme's are today's market makers. Meme's are what's moving this entire crypto-economy.

Basically, if your coin is not meme'ing, it's going to die soon. I've tried to keep the meme hashrate up while Stan's mememiner is off, but I will need some help soon or we're all doomed.

Secret sauce and actual coding can only take a project so far, meme's take it the rest of the way! So fire up that mememiner Stan and help me raise the meme hashrate back up to desirable levels so we can move this price to teh m00n!

Offline Ander

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3506
    • View Profile
  • BitShares: Ander
Re: NOTES are listed ar CMC
« Reply #54 on: June 03, 2015, 09:46:47 pm »
That would be worse. This is not only the way it should have been done, but after fundraising for a separate blockchain and spending all the money, you're suggesting they don't even build it and we all should have been using the original BitShares blockchain all along!?


Consider the following two options:

Option A:  Do everything on the bitshares blockchain.  Everyone who likes the project keeps buying BTS with their fiat and bitcoin, supporting the Bitshares market cap.

Option B: Make a new blockchain, and ask for funding.  Everyone who likes the project dumps their BTS, and spends their fiat and bitcoin on your fundraiser, thus sending BTS into a downtrend.  Take their money.


Clearly option B is better! 

PLAY managed to improve upon this plan even further, with the addition of "Panic dump the bitcoin donations you received on the very hour of the absolute low in the bitcoin price".  This brilliant addition means that not only do you hurt the Bitshares market cap with your fundraiser, but you also get hardly anything out of it!  Amazing!


This gives me an incredible idea! 

I will create a new blockchain called Bitshares BURN.  Its going to be AWESOME.

I will hold a crowdfund for it that lasts forever and ever, in BTC.  You can dump your BTS for BTC and donate it to my Bitshares BURN ICO fund.  Then, I'll just take the BTC and burn it!  This way, BTS market cap can dwindle to ever lower and lower depths!  Isnt that awesome!?



https://metaexchange.info | Bitcoin<->Altcoin exchange | Instant | Safe | Low spreads

Offline christo

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 25
    • View Profile
Re: NOTES are listed ar CMC
« Reply #55 on: June 04, 2015, 03:54:29 am »
Ander I honestly have no idea what you're talking about.

Offline Ander

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3506
    • View Profile
  • BitShares: Ander
Re: NOTES are listed ar CMC
« Reply #56 on: June 04, 2015, 11:03:12 pm »
Ander I honestly have no idea what you're talking about.

I'm saying BTS price went down because of the endless number of things the community decided to throw their money at that arent BTS.
https://metaexchange.info | Bitcoin<->Altcoin exchange | Instant | Safe | Low spreads

Tuck Fheman

  • Guest
Re: NOTES are listed ar CMC
« Reply #57 on: June 04, 2015, 11:17:21 pm »
I'm saying BTS price went down because of the endless number of things the community decided to throw their money at that arent BTS.

Like Qora, when you (most likely) doubled up on it?  :P

If I'm not moving my crypto around in opportune times, I feel like I'm doing it wrong.

Offline .yoshi

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 82
    • View Profile
Re: NOTES are listed ar CMC
« Reply #58 on: June 05, 2015, 06:23:04 pm »
dan was the only reason bitshares was worth anything for a long time. hth

Stan's meme's are what brought me here, and it's the reason I stay.

If you haven't noticed, meme's are today's market makers. Meme's are what's moving this entire crypto-economy.

Basically, if your coin is not meme'ing, it's going to die soon. I've tried to keep the meme hashrate up while Stan's mememiner is off, but I will need some help soon or we're all doomed.

Secret sauce and actual coding can only take a project so far, meme's take it the rest of the way! So fire up that mememiner Stan and help me raise the meme hashrate back up to desirable levels so we can move this price to teh m00n!

calling all memesters! the next few days are critical. we need your help