Author Topic: [ANN] For those who care to know  (Read 2989 times)

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Offline konelectric

Re: [ANN] For those who care to know
« Reply #15 on: December 13, 2015, 08:06:56 pm »
The tip bit got me interested in creating my oun UIA. Any tutorials on how to do this? I never had a reason to  look into this before.
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Offline fuzzy

Re: [ANN] For those who care to know
« Reply #16 on: December 13, 2015, 09:00:22 pm »
The tip bit got me interested in creating my oun UIA. Any tutorials on how to do this? I never had a reason to  look into this before.

That is awesome man...because we are ALL valuable and sometimes having a token that helps quantify it can help motivate themselves to improve because it offers near instant feedback on whether the free market thinks a path one is taking is positive or negative. 

There is no guide to my knowledge but let me post something to give you an idea of what Tuck Fheman gave me awhile back as guidelines:

Oddly no.  Not to my knowledge anyway. 
However I just made a quick *and definitely incomplete* tutorial to post here for you :)

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Re: [ANN] For those who care to know
« Reply #17 on: December 13, 2015, 11:02:27 pm »
[member=602]fuzzy[/member]
The most important piece of information is a clear explanation how this tipbot operates.
Its official website offers me no clue how to use it and how the tips find their way from the sender to the recipient.
Yes you are 100% correct.  The documentation is currently lacking, but that is because we are Still in Open Beta and not all these things have been completely ironed out.  There is, of course, a basic structure that likely will remain largely unchanged however...so we will be able to help with that over time.

[member=602]fuzzy[/member]
Having done a lot of guessing, I now suspect the tipbot distributes the tips off-chain  - is this correct?
(So the sender first needs to deposit a UIA with the bot's BitShares account, then call the bot to send the UIA to someone, and then the recipient has to withdraw the tip to their BitShares account  - is this correct?)
Yes.  Currently users pay nothing to enter the system and distribute tokens.  They only pay when they withdraw, and they can either withdraw to their own wallet, or make one from OpenLedger (while also gaining part of the referral fees).  [member=40140]hybridd[/member] is the best person to talk to about this however, so I mentioned him and he can help answer with real strong details.  One of the big reasons I was so intent on getting the majority of these tokens in our community's hands was to get them to help us make this bot the best it could be...so if you find problems and would like to offer constructive criticism I'd love it and I know that the freebie team would agree.

[member=602]fuzzy[/member]
I admit I haven't read all the existing forum threads about the tipping, so all I currently know is this:
(1) People on this forum have started sending tips to each other in the form of some strange UIAs
Yes, they have.  But to them it may not be strange...and if we take the route of silencing them, remember it only takes one person being offended by your token in the future to silence you.  This is something I cannot overstate.  I literally feel like saying this 400 times in succession.  It is very easy to be "offended" and using that as an excuse to keep people from building amazing things is a terrible way of moving forward.

[member=602]fuzzy[/member]
(2) The forum has become harder to use because of the automated posts generated by the bot.
I agree, which is why I made sure to let everyone know that the intent is to do this open and in public during the testing phases and then move to pm notifications after we are done testing and asking the community to participate. 

[member=602]fuzzy[/member]
And to be able to judge the value added by the bot I'd like to know this:
(1) What is the actual workflow needed to send a tip from person A to B?
Person A = Angie
Person B = Bob
1) Angie visits Sharebits.io and create an account using either the forums, reddit or twitter. 
2) Angie then clicks on the memo's clipboard icon to copy the memo that is required by the bot to route incoming transactions to the appropriate account
3) Angie then either creates a wallet on OpenLedger and buys tokens, or opens her own wallet that she had prior.
4) Angie sends the asset of her choosing to account: "sharebits" and makes sure she puts the memo she copied from her Sharebits account and places it into the memo field of her wallet...
5) Now Angie has funds in 1 of 3 accounts:  bitsharestalk, reddit or twitter.  She can combine these accounts if she wishes...or not.  This is her choice, but if she does not, she will have to fund each account separately.  (for this case lets just say it is a forum account)
6) Angie sees Bob is running an initiative to get a John McAfee to join our community and possibly integrate the antivirus company in some way with BitShares.  She loves it and decides she is going to give him 10 FISTBUMPs she got from purchasing them off the exchange from an entrepreneur named "tuckfheman"
7) Bob is notified (currently using the forums' threads...for reasons already explained) that he received a tip.
8) If Bob does not have an account, then he clicks the link provided in the notification and creates one in order to accept the token.  If he already has an account...it takes him to a page where it shows his balances. 

Hope this helps.

[member=602]fuzzy[/member]
(2) How does this bot earn its revenue? Is it a viable business model that can be replicated elsewhere?
From what I know at present, it will earn revenue in two ways (though it is in beta and at present is not earning anything to my knowledge):
A)  when users withdraw to their wallet, a small % of the funds will be paid to do so.
B)  if User A receives a tip and has no wallet, they can create one directly from the site through OpenLedger.info.  If/when they do this, the bot's wallet will be the referrer and will share some referral fees gained from OpenLedger.

Thank you, [member=602]fuzzy[/member] , now it's quite clear.
Maybe you could turn these answers into FAQs and put them on the website.
Especially this Angie (Alice?) / Bob example is very helpful.

Offline fav

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Re: [ANN] For those who care to know
« Reply #18 on: December 15, 2015, 09:12:56 am »
e.g. I don't know if the bot is trustless or it's able to run away with my tips.
It is not able to run away with your tips to my knowledge.  The system was largely built to be trustless as [member=38688]kuro112[/member] [member=32130]Freebieservers[/member] and [member=40140]hybridd[/member] roll that way.  They work with gamers...who also tend to be a demographic full of little hackers who like to cheat and gain substantial advantages using a whole slew of the most cutting edge attacks in the space (for some odd reason), so I am confident that their skillsets are very competent in accomplishing this.  Of course that doesn't mean people are not allowed to test and attack it...I mean its going to happen anyway. 

Interestingly, the only person on this forum who could potentially steal from you would be a moderator who reads your pms and grabs your security code (because it is sent to you via pm on this forum)

And that's exactly why 2FA will be worked on, from my understanding.

the owner of sharebitsio can run with the money = centralized and not trust less. I don't think there's a way to get around this, multi sig maybe, but that would void (fast) withdrawals.

2FA only protects you from outside intrusion, the main account holder could still go rogue.

please correct me if I am wrong

Offline hybridd

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Re: [ANN] For those who care to know
« Reply #19 on: December 15, 2015, 09:31:14 am »
e.g. I don't know if the bot is trustless or it's able to run away with my tips.
It is not able to run away with your tips to my knowledge.  The system was largely built to be trustless as [member=38688]kuro112[/member] [member=32130]Freebieservers[/member] and [member=40140]hybridd[/member] roll that way.  They work with gamers...who also tend to be a demographic full of little hackers who like to cheat and gain substantial advantages using a whole slew of the most cutting edge attacks in the space (for some odd reason), so I am confident that their skillsets are very competent in accomplishing this.  Of course that doesn't mean people are not allowed to test and attack it...I mean its going to happen anyway. 

Interestingly, the only person on this forum who could potentially steal from you would be a moderator who reads your pms and grabs your security code (because it is sent to you via pm on this forum)

This isn't entirely true as fav points out (further down I quoted him), it is entirely possible that someone who has control of the deposit account could do something malicious with them. The other points of failure are as (close to what) you pointed out, administrators not moderators.

From what I know at present, it will earn revenue in two ways (though it is in beta and at present is not earning anything to my knowledge):
A)  when users withdraw to their wallet, a small % of the funds will be paid to do so.
B)  if User A receives a tip and has no wallet, they can create one directly from the site through OpenLedger.info.  If/when they do this, the bot's wallet will be the referrer and will share some referral fees gained from OpenLedger.

A is sort of correct... it's not a % but rather a fairly fixed value. B... is not a question I know the answer to.


e.g. I don't know if the bot is trustless or it's able to run away with my tips.
It is not able to run away with your tips to my knowledge.  The system was largely built to be trustless as [member=38688]kuro112[/member] [member=32130]Freebieservers[/member] and [member=40140]hybridd[/member] roll that way.  They work with gamers...who also tend to be a demographic full of little hackers who like to cheat and gain substantial advantages using a whole slew of the most cutting edge attacks in the space (for some odd reason), so I am confident that their skillsets are very competent in accomplishing this.  Of course that doesn't mean people are not allowed to test and attack it...I mean its going to happen anyway. 

Interestingly, the only person on this forum who could potentially steal from you would be a moderator who reads your pms and grabs your security code (because it is sent to you via pm on this forum)

And that's exactly why 2FA will be worked on, from my understanding.

the owner of sharebitsio can run with the money = centralized and not trust less. I don't think there's a way to get around this, multi sig maybe, but that would void (fast) withdrawals.

2FA only protects you from outside intrusion, the main account holder could still go rogue.

please correct me if I am wrong

What you are saying is entirely true. There is no easy way to create a fully trustless system for this without us going very far out of our way to do so. The bitshares blockchain api doesn't provide an easy method to do so. If it were possible to create "sub accounts" (I'd have to greatly explain what I mean here, but I see no point cause it's not like someone's about to do some huge work on the block chian to make this possible) then a trustless system becomes more feasible.

Imo anyways, centralized isn't really a bad thing when people can be held accountable if shit hits the fan.
http://sharebits.io - #sharebits "person" amount asset - Start tipping on bitsharestalk today!
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Offline Thom

Re: [ANN] For those who care to know
« Reply #20 on: December 15, 2015, 04:18:11 pm »
Imo anyways, centralized isn't really a bad thing when people can be held accountable if shit hits the fan.

To address this concern are the accounts used to hold sharebits assets visible to the public so if someone wanted to they could audit balances and transfers in and out of sharebits?

From what I see on OL, the name of the main account holding everyone's assets for the bot is sharebits, is that correct?
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Offline merivercap

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Re: [ANN] For those who care to know
« Reply #21 on: December 16, 2015, 07:30:45 am »
Hey guys.  I was just trying out the Sharebits system and clicked on Tip Generator for the UIA.  I can't find the link anymore and it says the amount I was planning to tip is unclaimed.  How can I either reclaim it or get the url link again?  How do we pass the url to someone? 

Also I assume for the forums we just type the following: #btstip  [name] [amount] [UIA] ?  (without the brackets)

You can do it with or without quotes around the name?

Thanks. 
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Offline fuzzy

Re: [ANN] For those who care to know
« Reply #22 on: December 16, 2015, 05:50:45 pm »
Hey guys.  I was just trying out the Sharebits system and clicked on Tip Generator for the UIA.  I can't find the link anymore and it says the amount I was planning to tip is unclaimed.  How can I either reclaim it or get the url link again?  How do we pass the url to someone? 

Also I assume for the forums we just type the following: #btstip  [name] [amount] [UIA] ?  (without the brackets)

You can do it with or without quotes around the name?

Thanks.

[member=40140]hybridd[/member] [member=32130]Freebieservers[/member] [member=38688]kuro112[/member]
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ShareBits and WhaleShares = Love :D

Offline fuzzy

Re: [ANN] For those who care to know
« Reply #23 on: December 16, 2015, 05:59:32 pm »
Also, if you guys have any issues with the bot that need itoned out it helps substantially for the freebie team to receive them all in the same thread: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,20090.msg266706.html#msg266706
this is the best thread to post it in. :)
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ShareBits and WhaleShares = Love :D

Offline hybridd

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Re: [ANN] For those who care to know
« Reply #24 on: December 16, 2015, 06:20:55 pm »
Hey guys.  I was just trying out the Sharebits system and clicked on Tip Generator for the UIA.  I can't find the link anymore and it says the amount I was planning to tip is unclaimed.  How can I either reclaim it or get the url link again?  How do we pass the url to someone? 

Also I assume for the forums we just type the following: #btstip  [name] [amount] [UIA] ?  (without the brackets)

You can do it with or without quotes around the name?

Thanks.

All unclaimed tips get refunded to the tip issuer after 48 hours. I'm not sure what you mean by how you pass the url to someone... however you want? Skype, facebook, etc... lol

The syntax for the forum is no longer #btstip but rather #sharebits other than that, yes that's correct. Quotes around the name isn't required, but you will need it for names that have spaces.
http://sharebits.io - #sharebits "person" amount asset - Start tipping on bitsharestalk today!
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Offline merivercap

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Re: [ANN] For those who care to know
« Reply #25 on: December 16, 2015, 07:40:22 pm »
Also, if you guys have any issues with the bot that need itoned out it helps substantially for the freebie team to receive them all in the same thread: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,20090.msg266706.html#msg266706
this is the best thread to post it in. :)

Ok.  Yeah I wasn't sure if that was the latest thread.  Thanks!

Hey guys.  I was just trying out the Sharebits system and clicked on Tip Generator for the UIA.  I can't find the link anymore and it says the amount I was planning to tip is unclaimed.  How can I either reclaim it or get the url link again?  How do we pass the url to someone? 

Also I assume for the forums we just type the following: #btstip  [name] [amount] [UIA] ?  (without the brackets)

You can do it with or without quotes around the name?

Thanks.

All unclaimed tips get refunded to the tip issuer after 48 hours. I'm not sure what you mean by how you pass the url to someone... however you want? Skype, facebook, etc... lol

The syntax for the forum is no longer #btstip but rather #sharebits other than that, yes that's correct. Quotes around the name isn't required, but you will need it for names that have spaces.

Ok so I guess if we use the url, it should be private otherwise anyone can claim it since it doesn't reference anyone in particular?  And I have to keep generating new ones every time?  It might be good to have access to the url for future reference. 

Ok I see we need quotes for names with spaces..  Thanks! 

Very cool so far.   
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Offline fuzzy

Re: [ANN] For those who care to know
« Reply #26 on: December 16, 2015, 07:41:41 pm »
Hey guys.  I was just trying out the Sharebits system and clicked on Tip Generator for the UIA.  I can't find the link anymore and it says the amount I was planning to tip is unclaimed.  How can I either reclaim it or get the url link again?  How do we pass the url to someone? 

Also I assume for the forums we just type the following: #btstip  [name] [amount] [UIA] ?  (without the brackets)

You can do it with or without quotes around the name?

Thanks.

All unclaimed tips get refunded to the tip issuer after 48 hours. I'm not sure what you mean by how you pass the url to someone... however you want? Skype, facebook, etc... lol

The syntax for the forum is no longer #btstip but rather #sharebits other than that, yes that's correct. Quotes around the name isn't required, but you will need it for names that have spaces.

[member=40140]hybridd[/member] i think he means he cant find the link that was generated. 
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