Author Topic: BitShares X Status Update  (Read 105262 times)

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Offline MrJeans

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Re: BitShares Status Update
« Reply #15 on: January 03, 2014, 08:00:20 pm »
I am not understanding number 8

8) AGS and PTS will be used to initialize all BTS chains each trading in a subset of assets.  Therefore, AGS and PTS is more valuable than owning a single BTS chain.  They get you rights to all chains.

Could someone please explain this or point me to a thread that explains this.

Thanks

I think this works because every BitShares-chain is a separate DAC which will stick to the social contract and give shares to AGS and PTS holders.

Ok thanks, I get it now. Your post helped and I had to read number 8 over a few times haha

Offline smiley35

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Re: BitShares Status Update
« Reply #16 on: January 03, 2014, 09:25:28 pm »
Why would anybody short fiat at a 5% tax? It may be that volatile in the future but that seems crazy right now. If no one shorts it how is bitusd created?

Offline toast

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Re: BitShares Status Update
« Reply #17 on: January 03, 2014, 09:42:51 pm »
Why would anybody short fiat at a 5% tax? It may be that volatile in the future but that seems crazy right now. If no one shorts it how is bitusd created?

You can short against any asset, 5% may not be so unreasonable if you think USD will fall against oil/bts/btc/gold/silver. That said, I think you have a point given how much of an emphasis on currencies there is in the current root chain plan.
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Offline smiley35

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Re: BitShares Status Update
« Reply #18 on: January 03, 2014, 09:46:47 pm »
Why would anybody short fiat at a 5% tax? It may be that volatile in the future but that seems crazy right now. If no one shorts it how is bitusd created?

You can short against any asset, 5% may not be so unreasonable if you think USD will fall against oil/bts/btc/gold/silver. That said, I think you have a point given how much of an emphasis on currencies there is in the current root chain plan.

That is awesome.

One more question. That is 5% a year right?

Offline bytemaster

Re: BitShares Status Update
« Reply #19 on: January 03, 2014, 10:09:30 pm »
Why would anybody short fiat at a 5% tax? It may be that volatile in the future but that seems crazy right now. If no one shorts it how is bitusd created?

You can short against any asset, 5% may not be so unreasonable if you think USD will fall against oil/bts/btc/gold/silver. That said, I think you have a point given how much of an emphasis on currencies there is in the current root chain plan.

That is awesome.

One more question. That is 5% a year right?

Yes
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Offline coolspeed

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Re: BitShares Status Update
« Reply #20 on: January 04, 2014, 12:32:00 pm »
Why would anybody short fiat at a 5% tax? It may be that volatile in the future but that seems crazy right now. If no one shorts it how is bitusd created?

You can short against any asset, 5% may not be so unreasonable if you think USD will fall against oil/bts/btc/gold/silver. That said, I think you have a point given how much of an emphasis on currencies there is in the current root chain plan.

That is awesome.

One more question. That is 5% a year right?

Yes

Why the 5% should be hard-coded? And how can we reach the consensus that 5% is not too much?
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Offline MrJeans

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Re: BitShares Status Update
« Reply #21 on: January 04, 2014, 02:14:06 pm »
Why would anybody short fiat at a 5% tax? It may be that volatile in the future but that seems crazy right now. If no one shorts it how is bitusd created?

You can short against any asset, 5% may not be so unreasonable if you think USD will fall against oil/bts/btc/gold/silver. That said, I think you have a point given how much of an emphasis on currencies there is in the current root chain plan.

That is awesome.

One more question. That is 5% a year right?

Yes

Why the 5% should be hard-coded? And how can we reach the consensus that 5% is not too much?
5% may even be too little.

It would be a payoff.

What % fee is reasonable to charge someone to short a currency. (5% is rather cheap compared to the fees you would pay to other services to short order.) But here we need to get allot of people to short order so we can lend bitAssets into existence. So theres the first payoff.

Next we need to make a reasonable return for clients who want to store their money in as bitassets for the 5% return.

Here 5% may be too low. I am able to get between 4.9 and 8% annual return at my national bank's super safe, backed up, conservative money market account that doesnt require new understanding of technology or to stomach perceived risk.

Offline ruletheworld

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Re: BitShares Status Update
« Reply #22 on: January 04, 2014, 02:29:19 pm »
Why would anybody short fiat at a 5% tax? It may be that volatile in the future but that seems crazy right now. If no one shorts it how is bitusd created?

You can short against any asset, 5% may not be so unreasonable if you think USD will fall against oil/bts/btc/gold/silver. That said, I think you have a point given how much of an emphasis on currencies there is in the current root chain plan.

That is awesome.

One more question. That is 5% a year right?

Yes

Why the 5% should be hard-coded? And how can we reach the consensus that 5% is not too much?
5% may even be too little.

It would be a payoff.

What % fee is reasonable to charge someone to short a currency. (5% is rather cheap compared to the fees you would pay to other services to short order.) But here we need to get allot of people to short order so we can lend bitAssets into existence. So theres the first payoff.

Next we need to make a reasonable return for clients who want to store their money in as bitassets for the 5% return.

Here 5% may be too low. I am able to get between 4.9 and 8% annual return at my national bank's super safe, backed up, conservative money market account that doesnt require new understanding of technology or to stomach perceived risk.

That's not the right perspective to look at this, IMO. Different asset classes have different interest rates. I doubt USD money markets would give you 8% return. I also doubt any bank in the world would give you 5% interest on gold deposits, denominated in gold. Bitcoin too, should have a very low interest rate, if at all, in the free market.

Also, 5% isn't much when you put a collateral against which you're loaning money. The cheapest brokerages, for instance, let you borrow USD at less than 1% against your stock portfolio.

From a saver's perspective, this seems like a good deal. I am not so sure about this from the speculator's perspective. The open market, with all its flaws, might yield better results.

I am not sure how this could be made better though. Can interest rates themselves be floating, as in market determined by some mechanism?
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Offline MrJeans

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Re: BitShares Status Update
« Reply #23 on: January 04, 2014, 06:07:56 pm »
Why would anybody short fiat at a 5% tax? It may be that volatile in the future but that seems crazy right now. If no one shorts it how is bitusd created?

You can short against any asset, 5% may not be so unreasonable if you think USD will fall against oil/bts/btc/gold/silver. That said, I think you have a point given how much of an emphasis on currencies there is in the current root chain plan.

That is awesome.

One more question. That is 5% a year right?

Yes

Why the 5% should be hard-coded? And how can we reach the consensus that 5% is not too much?
5% may even be too little.

It would be a payoff.

What % fee is reasonable to charge someone to short a currency. (5% is rather cheap compared to the fees you would pay to other services to short order.) But here we need to get allot of people to short order so we can lend bitAssets into existence. So theres the first payoff.

Next we need to make a reasonable return for clients who want to store their money in as bitassets for the 5% return.

Here 5% may be too low. I am able to get between 4.9 and 8% annual return at my national bank's super safe, backed up, conservative money market account that doesnt require new understanding of technology or to stomach perceived risk.

That's not the right perspective to look at this, IMO. Different asset classes have different interest rates. I doubt USD money markets would give you 8% return. I also doubt any bank in the world would give you 5% interest on gold deposits, denominated in gold. Bitcoin too, should have a very low interest rate, if at all, in the free market.

Also, 5% isn't much when you put a collateral against which you're loaning money. The cheapest brokerages, for instance, let you borrow USD at less than 1% against your stock portfolio.

From a saver's perspective, this seems like a good deal. I am not so sure about this from the speculator's perspective. The open market, with all its flaws, might yield better results.

I am not sure how this could be made better though. Can interest rates themselves be floating, as in market determined by some mechanism?
This is a tough one. The 4.9 to 8% are the actual performance figures from a South African national bank for its money market fund.

So for a South African holding their rands in a real world bank would be more attractive.

I know that Chinese banks offer very little in terms of decent return savings accounts, so there is allot of potential there.

Given all the different situations in different countries it is very difficult to select an appropriate interest rate for a global bank.

Offline toast

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Re: BitShares Status Update
« Reply #24 on: January 04, 2014, 06:16:07 pm »
Remember that interest (returns) rates are not hard-coded, it's the various fees that are. We should be looking at what the fees around the world are for short-selling, inactivity, etc, not what kinds of returns you can get
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Offline cob

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Re: BitShares Status Update
« Reply #25 on: January 04, 2014, 06:21:53 pm »
Yeah, eventually there needs to be a free market mecanism in place to replace the "hardcoded 5%"
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Offline bytemaster

Re: BitShares Status Update
« Reply #26 on: January 04, 2014, 06:26:23 pm »
Yeah, eventually there needs to be a free market mecanism in place to replace the "hardcoded 5%"

Yes, I agree.  I will setup a prediction market to predict what the interest rate should be. 
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Offline megadeth92

Re: BitShares Status Update
« Reply #27 on: January 05, 2014, 05:33:32 am »
Awaiting for news! :D
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Offline que23

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Re: BitShares Status Update
« Reply #28 on: January 06, 2014, 01:55:24 am »
What's the best ETA for Bitshares? I heard bytemaster say he's going to go in a cave for two weeks, but the change from POW to POS would mean a complete rework of the system. AngelShares gives them some money to get more coders, but all those people will need to be trained or caught up. I'm figuring we might be looking at around 6 months to a BitShares release. Especially since the security people still have to comb through everything. Does anyone have better estimates?
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Offline NineLives

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Re: BitShares Status Update
« Reply #29 on: January 06, 2014, 02:07:35 am »
What's the best ETA for Bitshares? I heard bytemaster say he's going to go in a cave for two weeks, but the change from POW to POS would mean a complete rework of the system. AngelShares gives them some money to get more coders, but all those people will need to be trained or caught up. I'm figuring we might be looking at around 6 months to a BitShares release. Especially since the security people still have to comb through everything. Does anyone have better estimates?

Bump.  Same, Estimated ETA would be great.
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