BitShares X Status Update

[santaclause102]

Is this because XT is delayed or the others earlier than expected.

Both. XT got delayed, and the process of refactoring XT code into a shell DAC made it really easy to make simpler DACs.

Differnt question. You mentioned XCP in the context of BTS ME. Wouldnt the betting feature require more than what I (up to now) understood BTS ME is (basically colored coins/digital IOUs)? Contracts for difference and colored coins are basically two different things. No?

You are correct. I don't know if betting will be part of BTS Me from the start. Probably CC would be a better comparison to make.

Ok. Thanks.

[toast]

Is this because XT is delayed or the others earlier than expected.

Both. XT got delayed, and the process of refactoring XT code into a shell DAC made it really easy to make simpler DACs.

Differnt question. You mentioned XCP in the context of BTS ME. Wouldnt the betting feature require more than what I (up to now) understood BTS ME is (basically colored coins/digital IOUs)? Contracts for difference and colored coins are basically two different things. No?

You are correct. I don't know if betting will be part of BTS Me from the start. Probably CC would be a better comparison to make.

[santaclause102]

But toast, you also said Me is similar to other 2nd gen coins like nxt, xcp, ripple, msc cuz they are all IOU trading systems, didn't you?

I don't want to say too much because I don't know of Dan's exact plans for Me, but that's my impression based on his brief descriptions.

Thanks toast for your clarifications. The question is: Is this because XT is delayed or the others earlier than expected. It was said that XT will come out (made liquid) this month (probably rather at the end of it). Would this mean it is not unlikely that DNS, ME and Lotto come out also this moth?

Differnt question. You mentioned XCP in the context of BTS ME. Wouldnt the betting feature require more than what I (up to now) understood BTS ME is (basically colored coins/digital IOUs)? Contracts for difference and colored coins are basically two different things. No? 

[toast]

But toast, you also said Me is similar to other 2nd gen coins like nxt, xcp, ripple, msc cuz they are all IOU trading systems, didn't you?

I don't want to say too much because I don't know of Dan's exact plans for Me, but that's my impression based on his brief descriptions.

[muse-umum]

Yes, BTS X comes from BTX XT snapshots. BTS Me is a totally unrelated DAC, with a different AGS/PTS snapshot.

The confusion comes from the fact that I3 is saying BTS Me can be used to test aspects of BTS X, since they have some features in common, like both have a market.

Thank you toast.
And I would take this as I3's formal clarification without Dan or Stan's correctness.

But toast, you also said Me is similar to other 2nd gen coins like nxt, xcp, ripple, msc cuz they are all IOU trading systems, didn't you?



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

哈，你就别担心了。

[coolspeed]

Yes, BTS X comes from BTX XT snapshots. BTS Me is a totally unrelated DAC, with a different AGS/PTS snapshot.

The confusion comes from the fact that I3 is saying BTS Me can be used to test aspects of BTS X, since they have some features in common, like both have a market.

Thank you toast.
And I would take this as I3's formal clarification without Dan or Stan's correctness.

But toast, you also said Me is similar to other 2nd gen coins like nxt, xcp, ripple, msc cuz they are all IOU trading systems, didn't you?



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[santaclause102]

Thanks toast for your clarifications. The question is: Is this because XT is delayed or the others earlier than expected. It was said that XT will come out (made liquid) this month (probably rather at the end of it). Would this mean it is not unlikely that DNS, ME and Lotto come out also this moth?

Differnt question. You mentioned XCP in the context of BTS ME. Wouldnt the betting feature require more than what I (up to now) understood BTS ME is (basically colored coins/digital IOUs)? Contracts for difference and colored coins are basically two different things. No?   

[toast]

Why is that concerning? bytemaster said Me comes before XT, I said that Lotto/DNS (maybe) come before Me.

Nobody knows the exact order since these are parallel development efforts (dan on XT/Me, me on DNS, arlen on lotto)

[tonyk]

What is actually very concerning is the fact that bytemaster said: 
“ We will likely introduce BitShares ME…  prior to implementing … BTS XT”
 (here: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=1890.msg45173#msg45173)

And what toast said:
 “I would guess Lotto and DNS would come before ME.”
 (here: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=3615.msg45527#msg45527)

[mf-tzo]

I am a bit lost...A couple of questions:

1. As far as I understand holding AGS / PTS now will give me at least 10% from PTS and at least 10% from AGS on all future DACS including i.e. Bitshares ME and that's why they still have value. Correct? But if that's the case everytime there is a new DAC released their value will drop and drop...Correct? Unless I3 decides to say at some point that a new DAC will honor more than 1:1 the new shares to AGS/PTS Holders which i think would be unlikelly?Or not?

We make the software for each DAC family freely available to everybody who wants to develop a specialized member of that family.  These developers set the % of their DAC that will go to AGS and PTS holders.  If they do less than 10% to each, III will not support their DACs.  Further, we will support their competitors who give better deals to AGS and PTS holders.  If two release versions of a DAC family and one does 10/10 (and keeps 80%) and the other does 40/40 (and keeps 20%), who will this community support the most?  Market pressures will favor the most generous developer.

Understood thanks

2. The exact % of Bitshares ME honored by holding AGS/PTS will be announced when? A couple of weeks earlier before Bitshares ME is expected to be launched?

DAC families are franchises - free open source toolkits from which other developers can construct and release DACs.  Each developer gets to set their own release schedule and DAC parameters.  We work to find and encourage developers and remove obstacles from their paths.  This model leads to decentralization of the DAC industry and keeps Invictus from being a limit on industry growth.  PTS and AGS value will grow as more credible DACs are announced and fall after the value is transferred from PTS/AGS to the DAC at each new snapshot.  Think of PTS as a battery that charges up and then discharges each time a new snapshot is taken - like a camera flash charges and discharges.

I understand that. However that does not answer my question. Bitshares ME will be honored by my stake in AGS/PTS, by my stake in Bitshares X or by both (if i understand correctly point 3 below bitshares Me is completely irrelevant from Bitshares X)? and when do we expect the split to be announced? A couple of weeks before Bitshares ME is honored? a couple of months?

3. Holding Bitshares XT will also give me a % percentage of Bitshares ME as well before it is launched? The exact % again to be announced or it is 1:1 allocation? Or depends when it is released? Basically how do we estimate that % everytime there is a new DAC release?

BitShares XT is the franchise for Bank and Exchange DACs.  It has no effect on BitShares ME or vice versa.  We will make the ME chain available to developers as a spinoff using some of our early BitShares XT technology.  You will need to evaluate what other developers are offering to develop a ME chain from this toolkit.  We know of one who appears to be planning to launch a chain this spring, but it is up to them to convince this community that they should be supported and to defeat any competitors who may emerge for them.  Watch for their announcement when they are ready.

Which developer do you refer to? Where can I find information about this developper? I think I have read something as an alternative to Bitshares XT, but didn't convience me so I just didn't bother to go in more detail there.Are you reffering to that one? Or something else? when can a newbie like me find this kind of informations if these are not posted here? If you can advise it would be nice. If not it is still ok and understandable..
Also I understand that Bitshares X will give me shares from Bitshares XI and then Bitshares XI for Bitshares XV and so on. Do I understand this correctly? Is it fair to assume therefore that once the snapshot for Bitshares XI will be made the price of Bitshares X will decrease (as this happened now with PTS/AGS after the snapshot since their value was transfered to Bitshares X). This is very important point for me to be clear, so please advise. 

4. When Bitshares i.e Bingo is launced then the new shares will honor at least 10% AGS/PTS, x% of Bitshares X (how do we calculate this), and 1:1 of Bitshares ME? and so on...?

We will release a simple toolkit for a lottery franchise from which others can derive any number of new and exciting games.  Watch to see who announces an intent to compete using this DAC family toolkit.

Again how can I watch who announces an intent to compete using this DAC if it is not announced here?

Please see my questions in red. THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR YOUR REPLIES!!! I surelly Appreciate a lot that you spend your valuable time replying to my silly questions..The reason many times I ask silly questions is because I am very new to cryptocurrencies, I don't have much IT knowledge and it is very hard to understand all this concept of DACs and how things work.But I am trying to learn...Finally, I want to say that I have read a lot of complaints about how you guys don't communicate well what you are doing, that things don't work as expected, that you need a better marketing and so on...What I have to say is that since I understand much better things than a couple of months ago and since I am still fully supporting PTS and I3 and this community rather than XCP or Mastercoin or Next or Ripple, I think you are doing a very good job marketing wise and getting the information out there. I think you have built a great community here and others can try to beat that but they will fail! The monthly news letters are also amazing so looking forward to receive the March one. Keep up the good work!Thanks again!

[muse-umum]

Yes, BTS X comes from BTX XT snapshots. BTS Me is a totally unrelated DAC, with a different AGS/PTS snapshot.

The confusion comes from the fact that I3 is saying BTS Me can be used to test aspects of BTS X, since they have some features in common, like both have a market.

Toast, go and visit I3 more often. 

[toast]

Yes, BTS X comes from BTX XT snapshots. BTS Me is a totally unrelated DAC, with a different AGS/PTS snapshot.

The confusion comes from the fact that I3 is saying BTS Me can be used to test aspects of BTS X, since they have some features in common, like both have a market.

[coolspeed]

Hi Stan,
I'm worrying about the Bitshares Me itself evolves to Bitshares X, cuz I sold out my PTS partially after March 1st. If the Bitshares Me evolves to Bitshares X one day, instead of Bitshares XT, then your mis-announcement may cause my loss. Just to confirmation, can you characterize clearly that every Bitshares X chain will be snapshoted from Bitshares XT, whose genesis block is snapshoted from 228 of PTS/AGS?

[Stan]

I am a bit lost...A couple of questions:

1. As far as I understand holding AGS / PTS now will give me at least 10% from PTS and at least 10% from AGS on all future DACS including i.e. Bitshares ME and that's why they still have value. Correct? But if that's the case everytime there is a new DAC released their value will drop and drop...Correct? Unless I3 decides to say at some point that a new DAC will honor more than 1:1 the new shares to AGS/PTS Holders which i think would be unlikelly?Or not?

We make the software for each DAC family freely available to everybody who wants to develop a specialized member of that family.  These developers set the % of their DAC that will go to AGS and PTS holders.  If they do less than 10% to each, III will not support their DACs.  Further, we will support their competitors who give better deals to AGS and PTS holders.  If two release versions of a DAC family and one does 10/10 (and keeps 80%) and the other does 40/40 (and keeps 20%), who will this community support the most?  Market pressures will favor the most generous developer.

2. The exact % of Bitshares ME honored by holding AGS/PTS will be announced when? A couple of weeks earlier before Bitshares ME is expected to be launched?

DAC families are franchises - free open source toolkits from which other developers can construct and release DACs.  Each developer gets to set their own release schedule and DAC parameters.  We work to find and encourage developers and remove obstacles from their paths.  This model leads to decentralization of the DAC industry and keeps Invictus from being a limit on industry growth.  PTS and AGS value will grow as more credible DACs are announced and fall after the value is transferred from PTS/AGS to the DAC at each new snapshot.  Think of PTS as a battery that charges up and then discharges each time a new snapshot is taken - like a camera flash charges and discharges.

3. Holding Bitshares XT will also give me a % percentage of Bitshares ME as well before it is launched? The exact % again to be announced or it is 1:1 allocation? Or depends when it is released? Basically how do we estimate that % everytime there is a new DAC release?

BitShares XT is the franchise for Bank and Exchange DACs.  It has no effect on BitShares ME or vice versa.  We will make the ME chain available to developers as a spinoff using some of our early BitShares XT technology.  You will need to evaluate what other developers are offering to develop a ME chain from this toolkit.  We know of one who appears to be planning to launch a chain this spring, but it is up to them to convince this community that they should be supported and to defeat any competitors who may emerge for them.  Watch for their announcement when they are ready.

4. When Bitshares i.e Bingo is launced then the new shares will honor at least 10% AGS/PTS, x% of Bitshares X (how do we calculate this), and 1:1 of Bitshares ME? and so on...?

We will release a simple toolkit for a lottery franchise from which others can derive any number of new and exciting games.  Watch to see who announces an intent to compete using this DAC family toolkit.

Thank you very much for the replies in advance!!

See my replies in bold.  All of this is the subject of this month's newsletter to be released early this week.

[Stan]

ok, I'm confused and disappointed now

So I stopped AGSing before 2.28, and I expected to have a number of X BTSs when BTS XT comes out. As what you promised before.

And now you will creat a thing called ME, and you need a new snapshot then. And I get fewer BTSs then X!

I see no point of this but you want more people buying AGSs, is that your business model?

BTS X still exists and is totally different from BTS Me. You still have your BTS XT. They will still (eventually) do the same thing as before, which is different from what ME does. BTS Me has always been in the pipeline, just the order in which things are released get changed.

ok, so when it comes 　I can just sell all my BTS ME with no impact on my BTS　ＸＴ，　ｉｓ　ｔｈａｔ　ｒｉｇｈｔ？

That is correct.  You get all our planned products as soon as they are ready. 
They may be sold or bought separately like any other coins.  No impact on each other.

DACs are all in a race with different development teams competing to be next to see glory.
Because different teams compete, we cannot predict who will be fastest and which will be next.

Meet some of these teams in our March newsletter, which I am working hard to finish.