BitShares X Status Update

[Ohpinot]

You can always scale the margin requirements to the amount of capital.  So at the low end where people only have 100 BTS, have a 10x margin as they are the ones who will get called the most often.  While at the high end you can only require 2X as they likely have more capital that they can deploy without a forced call.

[BTSdac]

ur... @BTSdac the rule for match buy bitusd orders should using lowest ratio between bitusd and bts , not the value priced in BTS, in your model, why not using value priced in bitusd? it's unfair.

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everyone use the same ratio to create BTA in on block or in period of time?

[bytemaster]

Today I resolved many annoying bugs and increased the initial margin requirement to 10x.

I also create a tool for viewing your BTS balance from AGS or PTS given a Bitcoin-Qt or Protshares wallet.dat:
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=3330.msg41898#msg41898

[HackFisher]

ur... @BTSdac the rule for match buy bitusd orders should using lowest ratio between bitusd and bts , not the value priced in BTS, in your model, why not using value priced in bitusd? it's unfair.

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[BTSdac]

We view the forum as a place where we can share our thoughts and get help vetting our ideas in an open and transparent manner.  It is here that we experiment with various metaphors and analogies in an attempt to communicate technical content and sometimes hard to grasp ideas.  It is where we take time out of development to interact with the community while we are in a hurry to keep up with tens of thousands of postings in a real-time stream of consciousness.   We do not own this forum and we speak here only in our capacities as forum members.

A use 1BTS create 100 bitusd,  B use 1BTS create 200 bitusd,     C want to use 1BTS buy 150 bitusd
the exchange is   A and B , or  B and C

the sell price
A:0.01BTS/bitusd,    B: 0.005BTS/bitusd

the buy price
C:0.0067BTS/bitusd

it seem like exchange should beetween B and C

but I think the exchage should been A and B,, because ,

the sell price of BTS
A: 100bitusd/BTS
B:200 bitusd/BTS

the buy price of BTS
C: 150bitsud/BTS

so the exchange should  between  A and C

when we are talking sell order and buy order, there is a hidden field we might miss, the target currency we want to sell/buy.
Your example here should be A and B short sell bitusd, C want to buy bitusd, but your understanding is opposite wrong.

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becuase my job reason, I usually am concerned with the system is convergen or diverge.
the Bitusds A sell is totally different with  the Bitusds B sell
per Bitusd_A include 0.01 BTS , while Bitusd_B include 0.005BTS

So if C exchange with B ,  C buy 150 Bitusd_B that only include value 150*0.005=0.75BTS
if C exchange with A , C buy 100Bitusd_A that include value 100*0.1=1BTS
 C tend to buy the Bitusd that include more value ,therefore C should exchane with A

in other way ,if there is D use 1 BTS create 10000Bitusd
if acc. to your exchange rule  , D the sell price only 0.0001BTS/ bitusd ,so C should exchange with D, 
but there also is E  use 1 BTS create 100000000Bitusd , F ```````` or more
so this system diverge

[HackFisher]

We view the forum as a place where we can share our thoughts and get help vetting our ideas in an open and transparent manner.  It is here that we experiment with various metaphors and analogies in an attempt to communicate technical content and sometimes hard to grasp ideas.  It is where we take time out of development to interact with the community while we are in a hurry to keep up with tens of thousands of postings in a real-time stream of consciousness.   We do not own this forum and we speak here only in our capacities as forum members.

A use 1BTS create 100 bitusd,  B use 1BTS create 200 bitusd,     C want to use 1BTS buy 150 bitusd
the exchange is   A and B , or  B and C

the sell price
A:0.01BTS/bitusd,    B: 0.005BTS/bitusd

the buy price
C:0.0067BTS/bitusd

it seem like exchange should beetween B and C

but I think the exchage should been A and B,, because ,

the sell price of BTS
A: 100bitusd/BTS
B:200 bitusd/BTS

the buy price of BTS
C: 150bitsud/BTS

so the exchange should  between  A and C

when we are talking sell order and buy order, there is a hidden field we might miss, the target currency we want to sell/buy.
Your example here should be A and B short sell bitusd, C want to buy bitusd, but your understanding is opposite wrong.

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Tapatalk

[zhangweis]

2) Increase default collateral requirement to 10x.

About 10 times the mortgage:
If I have 400000 xts. I can do: continue to buy bitusd, when I buy a value of 300000 XTS bitusd, the 2700000 XTS is frozen. Next, the seller has no xts. I began to raise the price, the price increased to 1.3 times, let the seller liquidated, sell him my bitusd.
If so, the bitusd deal is not fair. XTS is easy to be short. Perhaps the only fair trade, buyers and sellers of the half, 2 times the mortgage.

关于10倍抵押的思考：
假如我拥有40万xts。我可以这样做：持续买进bitusd，当我购买了价值30万xts的bitusd，卖方就有270万xts被冻结。接下来，卖方已经没有xts了。我开始抬价，把价格提高到1.3倍，让卖方平仓，我的bitusd卖给他。
如果是这样，bitusd的交易是不公平的。xts容易被人做空。可能唯一公平的交易方式，买卖双方各出一半，2倍抵押。
具体抵押细节我还不清楚，只是推测，如果说错了，请谅解。

"when I buy a value of 300000 XTS bitusd, the 2700000 XTS is frozen." is not neccesarily the case. If I buy 1000 bitUSD which is backed with 1000 XTS. Then I sell it at 30000 XTS to you and you can only buy 10 bitUSD which is backed with 10 XTS.

[bytemaster]

2) Increase default collateral requirement to 10x.

About 10 times the mortgage:
If I have 400000 xts. I can do: continue to buy bitusd, when I buy a value of 300000 XTS bitusd, the 2700000 XTS is frozen. Next, the seller has no xts. I began to raise the price, the price increased to 1.3 times, let the seller liquidated, sell him my bitusd.
If so, the bitusd deal is not fair. XTS is easy to be short. Perhaps the only fair trade, buyers and sellers of the half, 2 times the mortgage.

关于10倍抵押的思考：
假如我拥有40万xts。我可以这样做：持续买进bitusd，当我购买了价值30万xts的bitusd，卖方就有270万xts被冻结。接下来，卖方已经没有xts了。我开始抬价，把价格提高到1.3倍，让卖方平仓，我的bitusd卖给他。
如果是这样，bitusd的交易是不公平的。xts容易被人做空。可能唯一公平的交易方式，买卖双方各出一半，2倍抵押。
具体抵押细节我还不清楚，只是推测，如果说错了，请谅解。

In a deep market there are many buyers and sellers.   With a 10x initial margin, the margin call price would be 5x rather than 1.3 and thus it becomes much harder to trigger a short squeeze.  With the minimal market depth for trading to occur you also prevent the simplistic 2 user case from ever existing.

[bytemaster]

A is offering to short 100 BitUSD at a price of .01 BTS per USD
B is offering to short 200 BitUSD at a price of .005 BTS per USD
C is offering to buy 150 BitUSD at a price of .0067 BTS per USD

So lets pair the lowest ask with the highest bid... B & C trade and we get the following result:

B gives C  150  BitUSD
C gives B  150 * .0067 BTS =  1 BTS
B is required to put 2 * 1 BTS as collateral which consumes all of B's order.

Result B is short 150 BitUSD backed by 2 BTS and A is long 150 BitUSD.

We can therefore conclude that C got the best possible deal, he went short at a higher price than he requested.

A on the other hand is asking to go short at a price HIGHER than C is willing to buy and thus no trade could ever occur between these two parties.

[BTSdac]

We view the forum as a place where we can share our thoughts and get help vetting our ideas in an open and transparent manner.  It is here that we experiment with various metaphors and analogies in an attempt to communicate technical content and sometimes hard to grasp ideas.  It is where we take time out of development to interact with the community while we are in a hurry to keep up with tens of thousands of postings in a real-time stream of consciousness.   We do not own this forum and we speak here only in our capacities as forum members.

A use 1BTS create 100 bitusd,  B use 1BTS create 200 bitusd,     C want to use 1BTS buy 150 bitusd
the exchange is   A and B , or  B and C

the sell price
A:0.01BTS/bitusd,    B: 0.005BTS/bitusd

the buy price
C:0.0067BTS/bitusd

it seem like exchange should beetween B and C

but I think the exchage should been A and B,, because ,

the sell price of BTS
A: 100bitusd/BTS
B:200 bitusd/BTS

the buy price of BTS
C: 150bitsud/BTS

so the exchange should  between  A and C

[alt]

I have a laundry list of items that need to be addressed.  There have been a number of requests discussed in this thread and in the attack thread that are causing some delays.   Things I need to handle are:

1) Enforce minimal market depth.
2) Increase default collateral requirement to 10x.
3) Fix a bug where wallet loading errors erase wallet contents.
4) Cover a position without requiring additional capital.

https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=3315.0
I think it's not enough to avoid the attack.
I prefer a limit for matching price, The  price of bitusd can't down more than 10% in one block.
No limit between current block and previous.

[BTSdac]

So since it's the 28th... Can we get the BTS X wallet for the test chain? Link? thanks.

I just checked in some bug fixes and validated that I could do the following:

1) Initialize with a genesis block with data from one of the snapshot services
2) Load my bitcoin wallet to receive AGS and PTS
3) Transfer said balance from AGS and PTS... (believe it or not this was tricky to nail down)

I have a laundry list of items that need to be addressed.  There have been a number of requests discussed in this thread and in the attack thread that are causing some delays.   Things I need to handle are:

1) Enforce minimal market depth.
2) Increase default collateral requirement to 10x.
3) Fix a bug where wallet loading errors erase wallet contents.
4) Cover a position without requiring additional capital.

increase to 10x , it a fix value or can change depende on market depth
why not limit increase/decrease percentage of BTA in the period of 24 hours, if we limit 50% increase/decrease percentage in 24 hours  , because  2 times BTS is frozen, so there are two days to operate

[suzhu01]

2) Increase default collateral requirement to 10x.

About 10 times the mortgage:
If I have 400000 xts. I can do: continue to buy bitusd, when I buy a value of 300000 XTS bitusd, the 2700000 XTS is frozen. Next, the seller has no xts. I began to raise the price, the price increased to 1.3 times, let the seller liquidated, sell him my bitusd.
If so, the bitusd deal is not fair. XTS is easy to be short. Perhaps the only fair trade, buyers and sellers of the half, 2 times the mortgage.

关于10倍抵押的思考：
假如我拥有40万xts。我可以这样做：持续买进bitusd，当我购买了价值30万xts的bitusd，卖方就有270万xts被冻结。接下来，卖方已经没有xts了。我开始抬价，把价格提高到1.3倍，让卖方平仓，我的bitusd卖给他。
如果是这样，bitusd的交易是不公平的。xts容易被人做空。可能唯一公平的交易方式，买卖双方各出一半，2倍抵押。
具体抵押细节我还不清楚，只是推测，如果说错了，请谅解。

[Stan]

We view the forum as a place where we can share our thoughts and get help vetting our ideas in an open and transparent manner.  It is here that we experiment with various metaphors and analogies in an attempt to communicate technical content and sometimes hard to grasp ideas.  It is where we take time out of development to interact with the community while we are in a hurry to keep up with tens of thousands of postings in a real-time stream of consciousness.   We do not own this forum and we speak here only in our capacities as forum members.

[bytemaster]

Daniel ,what does your signature mean?

Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Some people have the idea that forum posts are as good as a verbal contract and may attempt to enforce something I post as a contract or something I do as a breach of contract.  Basically, if I am going to post freely they must all be non-binding personal opinions and NOT obligations or official statements as CEO of a corporation.   I will probably refine the disclaimer over time.