Author Topic: Wow. That was a shitty day for bitshares  (Read 14615 times)

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Offline lovejoy

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BTS needs to be promoted as a tool of freedom that it is.    It needs to develop its own mini economy of people that are passionate about a common goal. Unfortunately, growing a community in such a manner is much slower than most would like.

I try and promote this as "Why save in USD in your Bank of America account when you can save diversified in Gold, Silver, Oil, USD etc with BitShares" or "Are you concerned about your currency being devalued or bail-ins? Try crypto and bank on yourself."

I think its a mistake to get too political. Look how poorly the libertarians do in elections these days. For some reason people dont care about liberty so much as what they think they're entitled to. The US is becoming a police state yet no one protested after snowdon's revelations, but they sure did in Berlin, Germany. Not in DC though.

I agree. At the same time Bitshares has to just work, and the bond market feature is missing which is perhaps more important to mass adoption than any other.

BTS needs to be promoted as a tool of freedom that it is.    It needs to develop its own mini economy of people that are passionate about a common goal.

Unfortunately, growing a community in such a manner is much slower than most would like.
A lot of people don't know what freedom is, and only half of Americans own stocks. Maybe focus on the half of Americans who don't own any stocks. Most Americans don't own any equity and you don't really have to appeal to ideology other than to look at the demographics that dont own and show them an easy way to acquire equity.

Maybe gamers for example who spend all day getting some digital item can now own digital property and acquire real wealth. This is an opportunity that never existed before for gamers or for people of the millennial demographic.

Focusing on politics is a mistake because a lot of young people aren't political or they just don't like politics. People see politics are involved and often run away from it because a lot of people don't want to have to deal with what comes along with politics, the risk of their lives being destroyed, the risk of upsetting the status quo. I think politics really limit the potential of any project when it's put into the branding of the project and it is why Bitcoin is replaced by Blockchain.

The reasoning being that most Americans aren't anarchists. Most Americans misunderstand what anarchist means, they don't have to be libertarians, they could be mainstream independents, or Bernie Sanders supporters, and still use an app if it's in their self interest. Why not appeal to self interest?

Yes it's definitely slower than most would like, as with any real change to the status quo, but for the first time in history the tools are within reach.

As far as I'm concerned, BitShares is like a gift from beyond for any community which has ever dreamed of creating a local currency, or has wished for a way to leverage their collective economic power, e.g., co-ops. 

However, even if you've spent your whole life fighting for economic justice you could be forgiven for not noticing that there is a viable solution just within reach.  A new paradigm technology such as the Graphene Toolkit is not immediately identifiable as a solution since it is literally unprecedented, even within the crypto space.

Within the United States alone the grocery co-op movement transacts billions of dollars annually, and is itself a tiny fraction of a much larger international co-op movement which is in the trillions.  This is a group of people which absolutely see eye to eye on the principles which animate BitShares.  Measuring the Size and Scope of the Cooperative Economy

Is there incentive to provide access to a network which facilitates interconnected micro economies of member benefits / rewards points / gift cards / equity, to benefit participating merchants and clients alike?

Moving beyond the institutions themselves to the communities of which they are comprised; you can see a huge swath of people, of every political persuasion, who identify with some pretty basic ideas.  We're not trying to win elections, we're going to change the way elections are run, the whole conversation is changing.  Let's not just sell 'stocks' or BitAssets, we should be selling access to the goods, the party, and freedom.  As Timothy Leary famously said, "When we say party, we mean party and celebration, the old party's just no fun."

There are large swaths of people whose consciousness, and economic interests are already aligned with what BitShares represents.
The tech exists, and the toolkit is steadily evolving through the hard work of a passionate and dedicated team.
We're just beginning to push out into all manner of synergistic projects, together as a community.
Our skill in finding ways to reach, and collaborate with the right people, to grow and improve the BitShares ecosystem, is a test of perseverance and imagination at this point.

The future called, and it wants a legacy adapter... let's do this.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2015, 10:39:09 am by bitscape »

jakub

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How do I promote bitshares? Do I walk into a bar and say "You should use bitshares because (I have no idea what to say here)".  Same thing with other merchants and business's.  How can they use this? Why would they use this instead or along with bitcoin?

For me it's quite simple. There are two distinct customer groups:
(1) online merchants - they need to be attracted by financial reasons: we have no charge-backs and we are significantly cheaper - due to the referral program having BTS as a system for receiving payments can mean a net income rather than 2% cost (as is the case with legacy systems).
(2) online consumers - they will come to BTS for lifestyle reasons, financial reasons won't work here because if you spend less than $5 / month for transaction fees you are not price sensitive.
This is what BM points out and I fully agree with it:
BTS needs to be promoted as a tool of freedom that it is. It needs to develop its own mini economy of people that are passionate about a common goal.

Offline tonyk

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When bitcoin settles down, speculators will exhale, and value will flow back into the alts with a vengeance.

Yep. But if your own predictions are right (25x expected climb) it is a long way to go before seeing it...and at something like 800/25 ~ 32 or so satoshi per BTS.
Lack of arbitrage is the problem, isn't it. And this 'should' solves it.

Offline luckybit

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Im not gonna lie. This consistently low price is depressing.

I really don't think the price will instantly or magically increase. If it does, be suspicious of manipulative whales. What we all need to do is hit the ground and promote the hell out of this thing, fueling some greater adoption, and get the momentum rolling to where businesses and customers WANT to use BitShares for various functions. Then we will see the kind of sustainable growth that has been so elusive in BitShares (or crypto in general). It won't happen this week or next month. But in a few months or a year or two, our efforts should be rewarded.

Get on it, people. Promoting BitShares is a 'part-time job' now for all of us. Imagine working at Google (or insert your favorite startup success story here) when they first got started with the promise that your options might be worth a great deal more someday. And that your technology could make the world a much better place. We can make it happen.

Customers and merchants don't care about Bitshares. The market for Bitshares are people who want to speculate or loan or park their money and collect some kind of yield or interest.

There isn't another decentralized exchange where people can do that. There are plenty of coins competing to get merchants and customers. If you can store your earnings in gold or silver that is something nothing else can offer right now.


Good point:

Quote
The market for Bitshares are people who want to speculate or loan or park their money and collect some kind of yield or interest.

Speculators buy bitshares.  They do not value bts as highly as we think they should, though it is the second most traded coin at poloniex.  Right now speculators value btc above the alts because it bitcoin is the backbone and rosetta stone for all other blockchains. Speculators know that when dollars and yuan flow into the digital economy, they will do through bitcoin. The broad decline in alt coin prices suggest that speculators are selling their alt coins to capitalize on bitcoin's latest assent. When bitcoin settles down, speculators will exhale, and value will flow back into the alts with a vengeance.

I agree with this. I've seen it happen many times before but this only tends to happen after the price of Bitcoin passes a certain psychological pressure point. When Bitcoin is seen as "too expensive" then people start looking for other crypto. Usually they look to Litecoin, then Litecoin eventually is seen as expensive, so they might look to Ethereum, and down the line, until they reach other coins.

This rally is different from the previous ones though. The previous rallies had centralized exchanges, limited ability to get capital in and out, etc. The current rally has institutional investment which can shift in and out, and these investors only care about Bitcoin and do not care at all about the other technologies yet.

This would mean the people investing might not be smart enough about it like the previous more tech oriented generations of investors. The new generation might only see Bitcoin because of the Bitcoin ETF and similar, and might not be able to figure out how to put a few billion dollars into Bitshares.

For Bitshares to be successful Bitcoin would have to go to an ATH and stay there for quite a while so that people have enough time to absorb the different technologies. When Bitcoin reached $1000 a lot of people did start to learn about Mastercoin, Counterparty, Bitshares and other altcoins despite the fact that Bitcoiners at the time would call them all shitcoins.

It's probably only a matter of time before millions of new people come into the space and that is what will boost the Bitshares price because most of them will come from Bitcoin to diversify.
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Offline werneo

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Im not gonna lie. This consistently low price is depressing.

I really don't think the price will instantly or magically increase. If it does, be suspicious of manipulative whales. What we all need to do is hit the ground and promote the hell out of this thing, fueling some greater adoption, and get the momentum rolling to where businesses and customers WANT to use BitShares for various functions. Then we will see the kind of sustainable growth that has been so elusive in BitShares (or crypto in general). It won't happen this week or next month. But in a few months or a year or two, our efforts should be rewarded.

Get on it, people. Promoting BitShares is a 'part-time job' now for all of us. Imagine working at Google (or insert your favorite startup success story here) when they first got started with the promise that your options might be worth a great deal more someday. And that your technology could make the world a much better place. We can make it happen.

Customers and merchants don't care about Bitshares. The market for Bitshares are people who want to speculate or loan or park their money and collect some kind of yield or interest.

There isn't another decentralized exchange where people can do that. There are plenty of coins competing to get merchants and customers. If you can store your earnings in gold or silver that is something nothing else can offer right now.


Good point:

Quote
The market for Bitshares are people who want to speculate or loan or park their money and collect some kind of yield or interest.

Speculators buy bitshares.  They do not value bts as highly as we think they should, though it is the second most traded coin at poloniex.  Right now speculators value btc above the alts because it bitcoin is the backbone and rosetta stone for all other blockchains. Speculators know that when dollars and yuan flow into the digital economy, they will do through bitcoin. The broad decline in alt coin prices suggest that speculators are selling their alt coins to capitalize on bitcoin's latest assent. When bitcoin settles down, speculators will exhale, and value will flow back into the alts with a vengeance.

Offline luckybit

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Well the good news is we're global, not just within the US. The Chinese are behind the bitcoin rise according to zerohedge. They could but bitBTC or bitgold with us. The question is, why aren't they?

Bring equity ownership to the GLOBAL MASSES.

Asia, Europe, Africa, America. Everyone can own a piece of something.

Equity crowd funding!
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Offline luckybit

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Easy, let's bring equity ownership to the masses. Everyone can own some equity using Bitshares.

There is no centralized institution encouraging equity ownership for the masses. Crowd funding is just becoming legal and it's perfect timing for Bitshares 2.0 which was just released. Why not jump on it?
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Offline mike623317

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Well the good news is we're global, not just within the US. The Chinese are behind the bitcoin rise according to zerohedge. They could but bitBTC or bitgold with us. The question is, why aren't they?

Offline lil_jay890

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BTS needs to be promoted as a tool of freedom that it is.    It needs to develop its own mini economy of people that are passionate about a common goal. Unfortunately, growing a community in such a manner is much slower than most would like.

I try and promote this as "Why save in USD in your Bank of America account when you can save diversified in Gold, Silver, Oil, USD etc with BitShares" or "Are you concerned about your currency being devalued or bail-ins? Try crypto and bank on yourself."

I think its a mistake to get too political. Look how poorly the libertarians do in elections these days. For some reason people dont care about liberty so much as what they think they're entitled to. The US is becoming a police state yet no one protested after snowdon's revelations, but they sure did in Berlin, Germany. Not in DC though.

Problem is if BTS is only useful when centralized exchanges go down, we are screwed...  I'm going to value toilet paper and bullets a lot more than btc, bts, dollars, euro's or yuan.

There has got to be a better reason than that to own bitshares

Offline luckybit

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BTS needs to be promoted as a tool of freedom that it is.    It needs to develop its own mini economy of people that are passionate about a common goal. Unfortunately, growing a community in such a manner is much slower than most would like.

I try and promote this as "Why save in USD in your Bank of America account when you can save diversified in Gold, Silver, Oil, USD etc with BitShares" or "Are you concerned about your currency being devalued or bail-ins? Try crypto and bank on yourself."

I think its a mistake to get too political. Look how poorly the libertarians do in elections these days. For some reason people dont care about liberty so much as what they think they're entitled to. The US is becoming a police state yet no one protested after snowdon's revelations, but they sure did in Berlin, Germany. Not in DC though.

I agree. At the same time Bitshares has to just work, and the bond market feature is missing which is perhaps more important to mass adoption than any other.

BTS needs to be promoted as a tool of freedom that it is.    It needs to develop its own mini economy of people that are passionate about a common goal.

Unfortunately, growing a community in such a manner is much slower than most would like.
A lot of people don't know what freedom is, and only half of Americans own stocks. Maybe focus on the half of Americans who don't own any stocks. Most Americans don't own any equity and you don't really have to appeal to ideology other than to look at the demographics that dont own and show them an easy way to acquire equity.

Maybe gamers for example who spend all day getting some digital item can now own digital property and acquire real wealth. This is an opportunity that never existed before for gamers or for people of the millennial demographic.

Focusing on politics is a mistake because a lot of young people aren't political or they just don't like politics. People see politics are involved and often run away from it because a lot of people don't want to have to deal with what comes along with politics, the risk of their lives being destroyed, the risk of upsetting the status quo. I think politics really limit the potential of any project when it's put into the branding of the project and it is why Bitcoin is replaced by Blockchain.

The reasoning being that most Americans aren't anarchists. Most Americans misunderstand what anarchist means, they don't have to be libertarians, they could be mainstream independents, or Bernie Sanders supporters, and still use an app if it's in their self interest. Why not appeal to self interest?



« Last Edit: November 04, 2015, 03:47:07 am by luckybit »
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Offline luckybit

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Im not gonna lie. This consistently low price is depressing.

I really don't think the price will instantly or magically increase. If it does, be suspicious of manipulative whales. What we all need to do is hit the ground and promote the hell out of this thing, fueling some greater adoption, and get the momentum rolling to where businesses and customers WANT to use BitShares for various functions. Then we will see the kind of sustainable growth that has been so elusive in BitShares (or crypto in general). It won't happen this week or next month. But in a few months or a year or two, our efforts should be rewarded.

Get on it, people. Promoting BitShares is a 'part-time job' now for all of us. Imagine working at Google (or insert your favorite startup success story here) when they first got started with the promise that your options might be worth a great deal more someday. And that your technology could make the world a much better place. We can make it happen.

Customers and merchants don't care about Bitshares. The market for Bitshares are people who want to speculate or loan or park their money and collect some kind of yield or interest.

There isn't another decentralized exchange where people can do that. There are plenty of coins competing to get merchants and customers. If you can store your earnings in gold or silver that is something nothing else can offer right now.
https://metaexchange.info | Bitcoin<->Altcoin exchange | Instant | Safe | Low spreads

Offline mike623317

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BTS needs to be promoted as a tool of freedom that it is.    It needs to develop its own mini economy of people that are passionate about a common goal. Unfortunately, growing a community in such a manner is much slower than most would like.

I try and promote this as "Why save in USD in your Bank of America account when you can save diversified in Gold, Silver, Oil, USD etc with BitShares" or "Are you concerned about your currency being devalued or bail-ins? Try crypto and bank on yourself."

I think its a mistake to get too political. Look how poorly the libertarians do in elections these days. For some reason people dont care about liberty so much as what they think they're entitled to. The US is becoming a police state yet no one protested after snowdon's revelations, but they sure did in Berlin, Germany. Not in DC though.

Offline bytemaster

BTS needs to be promoted as a tool of freedom that it is.    It needs to develop its own mini economy of people that are passionate about a common goal.

Unfortunately, growing a community in such a manner is much slower than most would like.
For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline yvv

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How do I promote bitshares? Do I walk into a bar and say "You should use bitshares because (I have no idea what to say here)".  Same thing with other merchants and business's.  How can they use this?  Why would they use this instead or along with bitcoin?

I don't think you can promote BTS as money. They are not money. They are shares in the company, as the docs says. These tokens are used as money, but only for some applications.

Offline lil_jay890

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How do I promote bitshares? Do I walk into a bar and say "You should use bitshares because (I have no idea what to say here)".  Same thing with other merchants and business's.  How can they use this?  Why would they use this instead or along with bitcoin?

What kind of company needs bitshares?  Honestly the only companies I can see using bitshares are companies like draft kings and fan duel.  Maybe companies that sell those gambling machines that are in bars could use them some how too.

I just got a bill today from my credit card company... I bought bitcoin with it from circle.  Not only did I have to pay a credit card fee charged by circle, but I found out they charged it as a cash advance which cost $10 per transaction.  Both circle and citi told me to pound sand when i complained.  Frankly it is insanely expensive to get involved it crypto, a product which brags about being cheap to move money around!

Sorry about the rant... crypto can be just so frustrating