Wow. That was a shitty day for bitshares

[luckybit]

So Bond markets is our answer?

Part of it. UIAs could do it right now without the bond market though. What stops a UIA from paying dividends?

[topcandle]

So Bond markets is our answer?

[luckybit]

5-10% yield possible through Bond markets?   How much does polonieux offer?

Sometimes yield can be as high as 12% a year in some markets so it's a matter of letting people offer yield, and offer UIAs which offer the kinds of yields, dividends and other attractors which bring people in. I don't know if polonieux offers any yield at all but if Bitshares has yield then it can attract liquidity.

Bees are attracted to flower pollen. The best advertisement is successful investors.

[topcandle]

5-10% yield possible through Bond markets?   How much does polonieux offer?

[luckybit]

Yes, I agree. For merchants it is a big deal.
But for me, the consumer, only the freedom part is the big deal.

And that is not bad news. If only 3-5% of online consumers do care about freedom - we are in a big business. Much bigger than bitcoin is now.

I agree, the freedom part is important.

but for me as consumer it's far more interesting to save 5-10% on a product.

5-10% annual yield is the best marketing Bitshares 2.0 can have. Find some Bitasset which is giving 5-10% annual yield or interest and Bitshares will become trivially easy to market at that point. Simply set up a blog showing step by step how you're gaining 5-10% in annual yield through Bitshares in a way which is of low risk and suddenly millions of dollars will flow into Bitshares.

Asset producers, and people planning to start businesses, you should consider going the route of equity crowd funding. Think about how you can actually use Bitshares in the launch of your new business, and how you can distribute equity to the Bitshares community so that you promote the success of Bitshares.

Decentralized equity crowd funding is as big as Open Bazaar. Bitshares 2.0 has the technical capability to issue legally recognized equity crowd funding opportunities. Tokens can be put out as UIAs, which can then later be redeemed for actual shares in companies. That bridge feature is big and important enough that you could bring billions of dollars into Bitshares just through that.

In times of adversity the community should pull itself together by distributing greater stakes. Shared stake is a mechanism which can pull people together through shared self interest. Keep the current community from splitting or members from leaving by offering enough perks and enough equity that their dreams of financial independence outweigh the fear of missing out on the rise of Bitcoin, some stock, or some altcoin.

Bitshares makes it trivially easy to interconnect a community through equity stake. Use the power of Bitshares and do not sell your stash so quickly because you could regret it as the people who sold their Bitcoins probably regret it.

[luckybit]

Yes, I agree. For merchants it is a big deal.
But for me, the consumer, only the freedom part is the big deal.

And that is not bad news. If only 3-5% of online consumers do care about freedom - we are in a big business. Much bigger than bitcoin is now.

I agree, the freedom part is important.

but for me as consumer it's far more interesting to save 5-10% on a product.

You're not interested in equity crowd funding? In achieving financial independence for yourself and your family?

If you cannot sustain yourself without employment then you're not financially independent. If you're able to get a few thousand $ a month from the blockchain then you're financially independent. Bitshares is the one blockchain which can offer this as a feature, the feature is the ability to achieve financial independence indirectly, not through features of Bitshares or the Bitshares price rise, but through holding the proper portfolio of UIAs, private assets, smart coins, bonds, etc, or by being a referrer, a witness, etc.

As you see, the people who work hard, or who work smart, or who invest wisely, can have a chance to achieve the new American dream of financial independence facilitated by blockchain technology. Bitshares should be marketed to people who want to be digital nomads, who want financial independence, who want to work directly for a blockchain.

Avoid politics, avoid vague words like freedom, avoid dividing people by talking about libertarian ideals, or crypto-anarchism, or Bytemasters master plan. People want to achieve similar goals, we all have similar dreams, but we all come from different backgrounds, different ideological outlooks, different philosophy on life, and we should avoid that which can divide people in marketing and put only what can bring people together.

Financial independence is something every reasonable person should want and we just have to show reasonable people how they can achieve financial independence through Bitshares, with some examples of people who are working at achieving it. Maybe someone should set up blogs showing how they invest through Bitshares and share their success. This way you market Bitshares to the people who want financial independence but who never thought it was possible to achieve through blockchains.

[luckybit]

How do I promote bitshares? Do I walk into a bar and say "You should use bitshares because (I have no idea what to say here)".  Same thing with other merchants and business's.  How can they use this? Why would they use this instead or along with bitcoin?

For me it's quite simple. There are two distinct customer groups:
(1) online merchants - they need to be attracted by financial reasons: we have no charge-backs and we are significantly cheaper - due to the referral program having BTS as a system for receiving payments can mean a net income rather than 2% cost (as is the case with legacy systems).
(2) online consumers - they will come to BTS for lifestyle reasons, financial reasons won't work here because if you spend less than $5 / month for transaction fees you are not price sensitive.
This is what BM points out and I fully agree with it:

BTS needs to be promoted as a tool of freedom that it is. It needs to develop its own mini economy of people that are passionate about a common goal.

Start using phrases like "financial independence". Most people understand and desire to be financially independent. Using vague words like "freedom" isn't going to work so well in marketing.

Bitshares can help people become financially independent if it is designed right. If it doesn't help people to become financially independent then it will not have many use cases and will be hard to market.

The referral program, the potential for yield, dividends, interest, all which could be compounded, the potential for equity crowd funding, that is how you bring equity ownership to the masses and the "freedom" of being financially independent as an end result of it.

Appealing to merchants and customers is the wrong way to go about it. Merchants don't need to be directly appealed to because they'll adopt it if enough people ask them to, and customers don't really matter if they don't have the goal of joining the Bitshares economy and intention of becoming financially independent.

So why not promote the memes of financial independence,  in a non-ideological way, from a pure mathematics, numbers, economics kind of way. To promote the ability of the saver to save, to promote the ability of the investor to invest, and to allow participants to generate life long passive income streams as a result, streams which can compound over time as the Bitshares supply decreases and the price increases.

[CLains]

There are tons of Bitcoin whales who have more BTC than our total marketcap. If they decide to put a small portion of their portfolio into BitShares we'll be soaring, and this is only more so the higher Bitcoin goes.

[sirlo]

BTS needs to be promoted as a tool of freedom that it is.    It needs to develop its own mini economy of people that are passionate about a common goal.

Unfortunately, growing a community in such a manner is much slower than most would like.

I'll have to disagree here. While think freedom is really important, I'll have to accept the fact that most people don't care about it.

Of course Bitshares has to be "freedom compatible", otherwise it won't be useful and wont' revolutionize anything. But using freedom as a main marketing point is just waste of time.

Freedom lovers are a tiny group, and most of them are already using bitcoin, and especially right now when the BTC is rocketing, they are not interested in questioning the foundations of Bitcoin and analyze how bad it actually is (in the long run).

So I am a normal guy with a bank account, debit card and a PayPal account.
And I use my PayPal account (or my debit card) 2-3 times a month to pay for the stuff I buy online and it looks like a free service for me.
(It looks like this because the fess are hidden from me and even if I'm smart and I know that ultimately I pay for the fees - as they are just factored in the price of the product I'm buying - I don't really care because altogether the fees cost me less than $3 per month)

If we skip the freedom part - what's the big deal for me to convince me to dump PayPal (or debit card) and start using bitUSD / bitEUR / bitCNY instead?

The Bitcoin price is going to become distorted at some point -- maybe sooner rather than later...
like the London (UK) and New York residential housing markets that are the "depositories" of copious amounts of "hot money"
that need laundering and a safe haven...


http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-11-02/bitcoin-more-doubles-2015-lows-chinese-ignore-easing-capital-controls

"... however if a few hundred million Chinese decide that the time has come to use bitcoin as the capital controls

bypassing currency of choice, and decide to invest even a tiny fraction of the $22 trillion in Chinese deposits in bitcoin

(whose total market cap at last check was just over $3 billion), sit back and watch as we witness the second coming of the

bitcoin bubble..."

But is this really a reliable launching pad upon which to build a foundation for a renaissance of the Bitcoin ecosphere?
If so, by definition it would be counter to the decentralization ethos and effectively become a potential single point of 
failure..

 
I think BitShares just needs to make ONE feature/aspect/use case that grabs the attention of the mainstream and they
will discover the rest of the benefits themselves...

e,g Can you imagine for example if a company provided an option  to its employees to have a percentage of their
paycheck direct deposited into a basket of bitAssets, instead of just a checking account or 401(k)

or Pension funds not having to rely on such "venerable" institutions as JPMorgan Chase, Goldman Sachs etc...or worse, end up like the employees of Enron..(at retirement age)

If BitShares could demonstrate a real world practical demonstration to show how organizations & situations like this
for example

http://ouroregon.org/millions-in-management-fees-mean-lower-returns-on-investments-and-bigger-paydays-for-banks/

can use what BitShares has to offer....Many other people, institutions, media, academia, businesses, students, etc. will discover all the other BitShares features, benefits and technology....


and the BTS market price will never look back..


Just the thoughts of an average Joe..

[jakub]

but for me as consumer it's far more interesting to save 5-10% on a product.

You won't save this much, no merchant will ever give you this much discount for paying with SmartCoin.

You could though earn this 5-10% if you keep doing what you are doing already - selling the freedom concept to new users via the referral program.

[fav]

Yes, I agree. For merchants it is a big deal.
But for me, the consumer, only the freedom part is the big deal.

And that is not bad news. If only 3-5% of online consumers do care about freedom - we are in a big business. Much bigger than bitcoin is now.

I agree, the freedom part is important.

but for me as consumer it's far more interesting to save 5-10% on a product.

[jakub]

BTS needs to be promoted as a tool of freedom that it is.    It needs to develop its own mini economy of people that are passionate about a common goal.

Unfortunately, growing a community in such a manner is much slower than most would like.

I'll have to disagree here. While think freedom is really important, I'll have to accept the fact that most people don't care about it.

Of course Bitshares has to be "freedom compatible", otherwise it won't be useful and wont' revolutionize anything. But using freedom as a main marketing point is just waste of time.

Freedom lovers are a tiny group, and most of them are already using bitcoin, and especially right now when the BTC is rocketing, they are not interested in questioning the foundations of Bitcoin and analyze how bad it actually is (in the long run).

So I am a normal guy with a bank account, debit card and a PayPal account.
And I use my PayPal (or a debit card) account 2-3 times a month to pay for the stuff I buy online and it looks like a free service for me.
(It looks like this because the fess are hidden from me and even if I'm smart and I know that ultimately I pay for the fees - as they are just factored in the price of the product I'm buying - I don't really care because altogether the fees cost me less than $3 per month)

If we skip the freedom part - what's the big deal for me to convince me to dump PayPal (or debit card) and start using bitUSD / bitEUR / bitCNY instead?

merchants. they pay less fees overall for smartcoins and can earn via referral program = they can offer discounts.

Yes, I agree. For merchants it is a big deal.
But for me, the consumer, only the freedom part is the big deal.

And that is not bad news. If only 3-5% of online consumers do care about freedom - we are in a big business. Much bigger than bitcoin is now.

[fav]

BTS needs to be promoted as a tool of freedom that it is.    It needs to develop its own mini economy of people that are passionate about a common goal.

Unfortunately, growing a community in such a manner is much slower than most would like.

I'll have to disagree here. While think freedom is really important, I'll have to accept the fact that most people don't care about it.

Of course Bitshares has to be "freedom compatible", otherwise it won't be useful and wont' revolutionize anything. But using freedom as a main marketing point is just waste of time.

Freedom lovers are a tiny group, and most of them are already using bitcoin, and especially right now when the BTC is rocketing, they are not interested in questioning the foundations of Bitcoin and analyze how bad it actually is (in the long run).

So I am a normal guy with a bank account, debit card and a PayPal account.
And I use my PayPal (or a debit card) account 2-3 times a month to pay for the stuff I buy online and it looks like a free service for me.
(It looks like this because the fess are hidden from me and even if I'm smart and I know that ultimately I pay for the fees - as they are just factored in the price of the product I'm buying - I don't really care because altogether the fees cost me less than $3 per month)

If we skip the freedom part - what's the big deal for me to convince me to dump PayPal (or debit card) and start using bitUSD / bitEUR / bitCNY instead?

merchants. they pay less fees overall for smartcoins and can earn via referral program = they can offer discounts.

[jakub]

BTS needs to be promoted as a tool of freedom that it is.    It needs to develop its own mini economy of people that are passionate about a common goal.

Unfortunately, growing a community in such a manner is much slower than most would like.

I'll have to disagree here. While think freedom is really important, I'll have to accept the fact that most people don't care about it.

Of course Bitshares has to be "freedom compatible", otherwise it won't be useful and wont' revolutionize anything. But using freedom as a main marketing point is just waste of time.

Freedom lovers are a tiny group, and most of them are already using bitcoin, and especially right now when the BTC is rocketing, they are not interested in questioning the foundations of Bitcoin and analyze how bad it actually is (in the long run).

So I am a normal guy with a bank account, debit card and a PayPal account.
And I use my PayPal account (or my debit card) 2-3 times a month to pay for the stuff I buy online and it looks like a free service for me.
(It looks like this because the fess are hidden from me and even if I'm smart and I know that ultimately I pay for the fees - as they are just factored in the price of the product I'm buying - I don't really care because altogether the fees cost me less than $3 per month)

If we skip the freedom part - what's the big deal for me to convince me to dump PayPal (or debit card) and start using bitUSD / bitEUR / bitCNY instead?

[Samupaha]

BTS needs to be promoted as a tool of freedom that it is.    It needs to develop its own mini economy of people that are passionate about a common goal.

Unfortunately, growing a community in such a manner is much slower than most would like.

I'll have to disagree here. While think freedom is really important, I'll have to accept the fact that most people don't care about it.

Of course Bitshares has to be "freedom compatible", otherwise it won't be useful and wont' revolutionize anything. But using freedom as a main marketing point is just waste of time.

Freedom lovers are a tiny group, and most of them are already using bitcoin, and especially right now when the BTC is rocketing, they are not interested in questioning the foundations of Bitcoin and analyze how bad it actually is (in the long run).