First Organized Mutually Agreed Proposal

[Bhuz]

When I mentioned different regions, I just meant the currency pairs that would be most logical in those regions. No geo-locating needed.

It wouldn't bother me at all if certain currency pairs got more business than others due to lower fees. This happens when a store puts items on sale; they usually sell more sale items than non-sale items. It's just smart business: You make money from a higher volume of business or you use the sale for a period of time to attract more customers who hopefully find other things they like and don't mind paying a bit more after a while.

If the lower fee thing really works, we'll find out by trying it, either across the board or in these limited "sales". If the lower fee doesn't attract added business, then we'll be confident that we could go forward with a system that's built for more profitability.

@donkeypong , why are you taking about currency pairs when the issue here is about transfer fees? The fee for transferring e.g. 100 bitCNY from person A to B. Why would I need a currency pair for that?
Am I missing something?

If bitCNY has 0 fee (just saying) on transfer, people instead of make bitUSD transfers could change their bitUSD to bitCNY and then make the transfer

[donkeypong]

Am I missing something?

No, you are correct and I misused that term. Edited my previous post. What I really meant was currencies, not c-pairs.

[jakub]

When I mentioned different regions, I just meant the currency pairs that would be most logical in those regions. No geo-locating needed.

It wouldn't bother me at all if certain currency pairs got more business than others due to lower fees. This happens when a store puts items on sale; they usually sell more sale items than non-sale items. It's just smart business: You make money from a higher volume of business or you use the sale for a period of time to attract more customers who hopefully find other things they like and don't mind paying a bit more after a while.

If the lower fee thing really works, we'll find out by trying it, either across the board or in these limited "sales". If the lower fee doesn't attract added business, then we'll be confident that we could go forward with a system that's built for more profitability.

@donkeypong , why are you taking about currency pairs when the issue here is about transfer fees? The fee for transferring e.g. 100 bitCNY from person A to B. Why would I need a currency pair for that?
Am I missing something?

[donkeypong]

When I mentioned different regions, I just meant the currencies that would be most logical in those regions. No geo-locating needed.

It wouldn't bother me at all if certain currencies got more business than others due to lower fees. This happens when a store puts items on sale; they usually sell more sale items than non-sale items. It's just smart business: You make money from a higher volume of business or you use the sale for a period of time to attract more customers who hopefully find other things they like and don't mind paying a bit more after a while.

If the lower fee thing really works, we'll find out by trying it, either across the board or in these limited "sales". If the lower fee doesn't attract added business, then we'll be confident that we could go forward with a system that's built for more profitability.

Instead, at the moment, we've split the difference on the fees, so we won't learn anything.

[jakub]

Clayop whined so much about the high fee's... he finally got a chance to lower them, but only lowered them enough to fuck over referrers and the low fee guys in one swipe.

So why don't we lower the transfer fee on CNY only and leave transfer fees for other assets as they are?

I hate to say it, lil_jay, but you are correct. They have stripped everyone of the tools they need to succeed. They could have picked a side, any side, and yet they price this at dumbest possible price point where no one has what they need to properly sell this thing.

Jakub, I would support your idea, having some different fees for different currency pairs. I don't see why we need a one-size-fits-all approach. And if the business gravitates to the low fee areas, then that would be a successful experiment, telling us what we need to know.

The reason you cannot have different fees for different pairs is you destroy all the pairs that are more. In other words, why would I trade in bitUSD pair when trading in bitCNY will be cheaper? Market will respond the same way and only the lower value currencies will have any meaningful volume.

We cannot begin to get into having to geo locate accounts either.

But why are you talking about currency pairs?
This is about transfer fees, not trading fees.

What I advocate is very simple: when I transfer bitCNY I pay e.g. the equivalent of $0.10. But when I transfer bitEUR I pay the equivalent of $0.20.
Clean and simple.

It just requires the witnesses to configure asset fee pools differently for bitCNY and differently for bitUSD and bitEUR.
The only "problem" is that transfers on bitUSD and bitEUR will "subsidize" transfers on bitCNY, but I think this is the least bad solution.
The alternative is to have a bad compromise which makes both sides unhappy.

[Akado]

Clayop whined so much about the high fee's... he finally got a chance to lower them, but only lowered them enough to fuck over referrers and the low fee guys in one swipe.

So why don't we lower the transfer fee on CNY only and leave transfer fees for other assets as they are?

I hate to say it, lil_jay, but you are correct. They have stripped everyone of the tools they need to succeed. They could have picked a side, any side, and yet they price this at dumbest possible price point where no one has what they need to properly sell this thing.

Jakub, I would support your idea, having some different fees for different currency pairs. I don't see why we need a one-size-fits-all approach. And if the business gravitates to the low fee areas, then that would be a successful experiment, telling us what we need to know.

The reason you cannot have different fees for different pairs is you destroy all the pairs that are more. In other words, why would I trade in bitUSD pair when trading in bitCNY will be cheaper? Market will respond the same way and only the lower value currencies will have any meaningful volume.

We cannot begin to get into having to geo locate accounts either.

It could be used to find equilibrium, which I think is very important. People would be constantly switching from currency to currency (USD to CNY) and lowering/increasing fees until an equilibrium is found. Obviously in the end they could probably have similar fees but it would be good to test the exact % of fees users are willing to pay. That is very important. It would also require a constant change on chain's parameters but it could be worth it long term.

[Bhuz]

Unless I misunderstand something, don't you need majority for this to even pass.  I see 33% approval at the moment.

Of course we need majority.

Nothing is really decided yet, and above all definitive, we could easily unvote the proposal

[BunkerChainLabs-DataSecurityNode]

Clayop whined so much about the high fee's... he finally got a chance to lower them, but only lowered them enough to fuck over referrers and the low fee guys in one swipe.

So why don't we lower the transfer fee on CNY only and leave transfer fees for other assets as they are?

I hate to say it, lil_jay, but you are correct. They have stripped everyone of the tools they need to succeed. They could have picked a side, any side, and yet they price this at dumbest possible price point where no one has what they need to properly sell this thing.

Jakub, I would support your idea, having some different fees for different currency pairs. I don't see why we need a one-size-fits-all approach. And if the business gravitates to the low fee areas, then that would be a successful experiment, telling us what we need to know.

The reason you cannot have different fees for different pairs is you destroy all the pairs that are more. In other words, why would I trade in bitUSD pair when trading in bitCNY will be cheaper? Market will respond the same way and only the lower value currencies will have any meaningful volume.

We cannot begin to get into having to geo locate accounts either.

[Akado]

How can I see the proxies with higher voting power? I cant find it on the client or cryptofresh. This should be something everyone can see to avoid centralization. I want to know if the biggest proxies are chinese for example.

Well, everyone who voted to lower the fees better do >25% more transactions and work.

[tonyk]

Nope... I believe you pay this fee any time you create a vesting balance - aka one of the people you referred upgrades to LTM, or you register an asset and you are LTM 

If that was the case, I think fav would know.
He did not tell anything about it.

https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,19961.0.html

That is about vesting. (the reason why tried to set the Scale value back to the defaut value: 1)
That does not seem related.

Interesting take... 'vesting fee' is not related to vesting in your opinion.

[tonyk]

@donkeypong is the MAN in this thread.


1 GreenPoint coming your way, when I get to my wallet. If I can figure out your account, which might be an issue, I guess.

[donkeypong]

The best compromise is the one where all sides equally unhappy.

Normally I'd agree with you, because I love consensus and compromise. When you get attacked equally from both sides, you've done fairly well. But here, there is a major difference, which is that the price point they reached promotes nothing but paralysis for everyone. Personally, I'm in favor of maintaining "high" fees except on trading, but I would have been much happier if they'd betrayed my group and went 100% with the low fee group, because at least someone would have been able to make this work well.

[Bhuz]

Nope... I believe you pay this fee any time you create a vesting balance - aka one of the people you referred upgrades to LTM, or you register an asset and you are LTM 

If that was the case, I think fav would know.
He did not tell anything about it.

https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,19961.0.html

That is about vesting. (the reason why tried to set the Scale value back to the defaut value: 1)
That does not seem related.

[Pheonike]

The best compromise is the one where all sides equally unhappy.

[donkeypong]

Clayop whined so much about the high fee's... he finally got a chance to lower them, but only lowered them enough to fuck over referrers and the low fee guys in one swipe.

So why don't we lower the transfer fee on CNY only and leave transfer fees for other assets as they are?

I hate to say it, lil_jay, but you are correct. They have stripped everyone of the tools they need to succeed. They could have picked a side, any side, and yet they price this at dumbest possible price point where no one has what they need to properly sell this thing.

Jakub, I would support your idea, having some different fees for different currency pairs. I don't see why we need a one-size-fits-all approach. And if the business gravitates to the low fee areas, then that would be a successful experiment, telling us what we need to know.