Author Topic: [ANN] MaxPWR Petitions to Sanction User Newmine  (Read 10176 times)

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Offline NewMine

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Still waiting FreeTrade

If the only price is a project you believe in, are you willing to put all your how about just 75% MMC into development bounties paid to other developers in exchange for a guarantee you'll be able to guide the coin as you see fit?  Somehow I think the speculative upside has your attention too.

It would be great if you addressed the parts that actually matter instead of just responding to semantics.



Lets assume you spent 1 month of full time work adapting Protoshares (which you were paid to develop) to MemoryCoin.   What do you think is a reasonable amount to pay you for that time in US dollar terms.   What would be a compelling US dollar amount worth of pay be to convince you to give support to your project for say, a year?   

and are you really comparing yourself to Satoshi with regards to holdings?   He could easily answer this question, he did not give himself any advantage or number of Bitcoins in the Genesis block of Bitcoin.   That is not true of MemoryCoin, and yes you gave some of those coins to other people but many of them went to you or addresses you control.   To be clear,  you are not willing to publicly share how many MemoryCoins you gave yourself in the Genesis Block of Memorycoin?


He doesn't answer my questions either. Questions that I felt would clear the air and may persuade me to drop my campaign.

Offline jae208

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:0 FREETRADE IS A SNEAKY SLIMBALL!!!!

I hope shi... Memorycoin version TWO crashes and burn

Only one around here that will be getting my money is Bytemaster and his team.
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Offline bytemaster

I for one am shocked and saddened that FreeTrade has abandoned an opportunity to support PTS as a paid position or even take a paid hour of his time to build a new release after others provided the patches.   He left us holding the bag and searching for new developers to support PTS. 

Our agreement was that I would help you launch ProtoShares and see it through for a month and that you would pay a bounty. I thought we both fulfilled our end of the agreement. I can understand you might be disappointed you didn't secure my services after that, but I made you aware from the outset that I am very single minded and handle one project at a time, and that I would likely want to return to MemoryCoin.

Regarding the patches - they seem to mostly be code that it is MemoryCoin and that I've pointed you towards, and I've offered and undertaken builds for you.  I don't think it is fair for you to talk of abandonment or 'left us holding the bag'.

Fair enough, you did everything we paid you to do so didn't really leave us holding the bag.   I really believe you have good intentions, I just don't understand your motivations sometimes.
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Offline AdamBLevine

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Still waiting FreeTrade

If the only price is a project you believe in, are you willing to put all your how about just 75% MMC into development bounties paid to other developers in exchange for a guarantee you'll be able to guide the coin as you see fit?  Somehow I think the speculative upside has your attention too.

It would be great if you addressed the parts that actually matter instead of just responding to semantics.



Lets assume you spent 1 month of full time work adapting Protoshares (which you were paid to develop) to MemoryCoin.   What do you think is a reasonable amount to pay you for that time in US dollar terms.   What would be a compelling US dollar amount worth of pay be to convince you to give support to your project for say, a year?   

and are you really comparing yourself to Satoshi with regards to holdings?   He could easily answer this question, he did not give himself any advantage or number of Bitcoins in the Genesis block of Bitcoin.   That is not true of MemoryCoin, and yes you gave some of those coins to other people but many of them went to you or addresses you control.   To be clear,  you are not willing to publicly share how many MemoryCoins you gave yourself in the Genesis Block of Memorycoin?

Email me at adam@letstalkbitcoin.com

Offline FreeTrade

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I for one am shocked and saddened that FreeTrade has abandoned an opportunity to support PTS as a paid position or even take a paid hour of his time to build a new release after others provided the patches.   He left us holding the bag and searching for new developers to support PTS. 

Our agreement was that I would help you launch ProtoShares and see it through for a month and that you would pay a bounty. I thought we both fulfilled our end of the agreement. I can understand you might be disappointed you didn't secure my services after that, but I made you aware from the outset that I am very single minded and handle one project at a time, and that I would likely want to return to MemoryCoin.

Regarding the patches - they seem to mostly be code that it is MemoryCoin and that I've pointed you towards, and I've offered and undertaken builds for you.  I don't think it is fair for you to talk of abandonment or 'left us holding the bag'.
“People should be more sophisticated? How are you gonna get that done?” - Jerry Seinfeld reply to Bill Maher

Offline bytemaster

I for one am shocked and saddened that FreeTrade has abandoned an opportunity to support PTS as a paid position or even take a paid hour of his time to build a new release after others provided the patches.   He left us holding the bag and searching for new developers to support PTS.  I understand that it was only a bounty that he won, but considering the success and our offer to continue to pay for support, it seems like he is motivated by something other than a paycheck. 

I greatly appreciate FreeTrade demonstrating how PTS can be honored and MMC2 is a huge experiment to demonstrate the perils of using voting systems as a management structure.    I for one was hopeful that MMC2 would be successful, but it has clearly devolved into politics and group trap.


The Group Trap from How I found Freedom in an Unfree World

Next is the Group Trap, which is the belief that you can accomplish more by acting in groups than you can by acting on your own. Harry didn’t believe that there’s anything inherently wrong with participating in groups; you may enjoy the social aspect or something else about it. But you should be consciously aware that, if you just want to accomplish something, you not only don’t have to go through a group, but it’s actually easier to act on your own.

The heart of this Trap is what Harry states is one of the most important keys to finding freedom in life, which is understanding the difference between what he called Direct and Indirect Alternatives. An Indirect Alternative is one that requires you to go through others to get what you want; a Direct Alternative involves you acting by yourself to get what you want, without having to convince anyone else that you’re right.

An example Harry gives is a college student who’s dissatisfied with his school’s curriculum. An Indirect Alternative would be to circulate a petition around campus or to lobby the school’s board of directors to implement your change. Direct Alternatives would be to change schools or study the missing subjects on the side.

It’s not that there’s necessarily anything wrong with trying to improve the world or with wanting to be apart of a movement that‘s bigger than yourself; it’s that you should be consciously aware that you don’t have to do that to get what you want out of life – if you do it anyway, it should be for other reasons.

Harry’s example also illustrates the permanence of involvement in social or political movements. Let’s suppose our student decides to use an Indirect Alternative, working to persuade others that what he wants is right – and he succeeds. Will that be the end of it?

Probably not. Others probably liked the curriculum as it was; while still others also wanted it changed – but to what they wanted. Do you think they’ll just roll over and accept the changes? If anything, his success will show them that they, too, can change things. Our student has just unwittingly enlisted himself in a battle that won’t end until he graduates (and even then it won’t end, although it won’t be his problem anymore).

As another example, consider the abortion debate. Forty years ago, many pro-choice people probably worked for their cause with the vague notion that, if they succeeded, it would be V-J Day for them and they could quit and go back to their regular lives. But they found out quickly that their opponents weren’t giving up, so they’ve had to spend 35 years safeguarding their victory. Today, many pro-lifers probably toil under the same mistaken notion of chasing their phantom V-J Day.

Also stop to consider the issue mathematically. For example, in a group of 100 people, you contribute 1% to the total if everyone works equally hard, which of course they won’t. If you do less than the others, you contribute even less than 1%, so your efforts are statistically meaningless; if you do more, your efforts are subsidizing the slackers – but you’ll still have to share the reward with them.

Again, the point isn’t necessarily that you shouldn’t fight for causes bigger than yourself if you believe in them that much and it gives you some sense of joy or accomplishment; the point is you should be consciously aware that you don’t have to do that to get what you want, that there are easier, much more direct ways to keep the issue from affecting you adversely, whichever side you’re on, that you don’t have to spend your life fighting for or against something that’s never going away.

Conclusion

MemoryCoin is suffering from the group trap by paying salaries to elected candidates and those casting the votes will tend to vote for people that promise them the moon only to find out that after being elected they given the profits to their cronies. 

Adam, I suggest you keep this 'group trap' in mind when your proposals call for voting to resolve disputes or make decisions.  You are right, that paying in advance for the promise of work is terrible.   Imagine if politicians had to cast all of their votes BEFORE they were elected?   Imagine if they had to do all the work, attend all of the meetings, etc, and only IF the people like the product produced do they get 'elected' and their positions ratified. 



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Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline AdamBLevine

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 If the only price is a project you believe in, are you willing to put all your how about just 75% MMC into development bounties paid to other developers in exchange for a guarantee you'll be able to guide the coin as you see fit?  Somehow I think the speculative upside has your attention too.

It would be great if you addressed the parts that actually matter instead of just responding to semantics.



Lets assume you spent 1 month of full time work adapting Protoshares (which you were paid to develop) to MemoryCoin.   What do you think is a reasonable amount to pay you for that time in US dollar terms.   What would be a compelling US dollar amount worth of pay be to convince you to give support to your project for say, a year?   

and are you really comparing yourself to Satoshi with regards to holdings?   He could easily answer this question, he did not give himself any advantage or number of Bitcoins in the Genesis block of Bitcoin.   That is not true of MemoryCoin, and yes you gave some of those coins to other people but many of them went to you or addresses you control.   To be clear,  you are not willing to publicly share how many MemoryCoins you gave yourself in the Genesis Block of Memorycoin?

« Last Edit: January 07, 2014, 05:17:58 pm by AdamBLevine »
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Offline FreeTrade

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When I'm removed as CEO, as will happen sooner or later, I'll have to decide carefully whether its worth my while volunteering efforts in an emeritus role. It'll depend on the new CEO and team and whether they're leading in the right direction. That's the price - a project that I believe in.
“People should be more sophisticated? How are you gonna get that done?” - Jerry Seinfeld reply to Bill Maher

Offline AdamBLevine

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Also, I could not be involved as CEO since FreeTrade has said he would quit developing if he didn't agree with what the new CEO was doing.  I am not a developer nor do I want to manage developers for this project, so this fact alone makes it impossible to devote time to Memorycoin.   Free trade already shared what happens when he decides to stop developing a project.


I didn't 'crash' MemoryCoin 1. Don't believe everything you read on a forum. The shareholders of MemoryCoin 1 sacked me and the coin withered because it didn't have a dev. I explained the situation to the Bter exchange and recommended they suspend trading for a short time while the news was absorbed. They didn't want to continue with a coin with no dev support and halted trading altogether.

Some coins have a model where a benevolent dev works for free indefinitely on a coin. I don't think that's a sustainable model capable of major growth, and it's not the model here - if that's what you want, there are plenty of coins like that. The MemoryCoin model is development and promotion are paid for through slightly higher inflation, and the shareholders get to vote on who gets paid.


Turns out we've seen this movie before, if FreeTrade walks he won't go quietly into the night.
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Offline AdamBLevine

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Bottom line is you have LOTS of MMC, and it should be enough that you should *WANT* to develop this coin you've now initiated twice. This should be true even if you get voted out of the position to have 1% of the total money supply emptied in your pocket every block because you have taken so much pay in advance for work you have not done.

Given this conversation so far I don't expect a real answer but maybe you'll surprise me - Lets assume you spent 1 month of full time work adapting Protoshares (which you were paid to develop) to MemoryCoin.   What do you think is a reasonable amount to pay you for that time in US dollar terms.   What would be a compelling US dollar amount worth of pay be to convince you to give support to your project for say, a year?
   

and are you really comparing yourself to Satoshi with regards to holdings?   He could easily answer this question, he did not give himself any advantage or number of Bitcoins in the Genesis block of Bitcoin.   That is not true of MemoryCoin, and yes you gave some of those coins to other people but many of them went to you or addresses you control.   To be clear,  you are not willing to publicly share how many MemoryCoins you gave yourself in the Genesis Block of Memorycoin?

Adam, you are so right about so many things, and I hope more and more people will start to understand what FreeTrade is really doing here.
Why don't you run for CEO? You would get my votes and many more for sure. We already have a good new CMO on the way (I hope) so a decent guy in the CEO seat as well would be a big improvement.

If I ran for the position I would be 100% outsourcing the work.  Literally just showing up to judge the submissions and look over community feedback.   

Although you wouldn't know it from my recent spurt of posting activity, I have way more projects than time.   It would be a win for Memorycoin to have someone high profile as CEO, but given the unknowns about how much the creator decided to secretly pre-mine I don't see this coin having much future.   Suddenly honoring protoshares for only 1% makes sense, it was a cheap way to premine and not be able to tell how much went to him since it's mixed in with all the PTS data. 
Email me at adam@letstalkbitcoin.com

Offline MegaFarmer

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Bottom line is you have LOTS of MMC, and it should be enough that you should *WANT* to develop this coin you've now initiated twice. This should be true even if you get voted out of the position to have 1% of the total money supply emptied in your pocket every block because you have taken so much pay in advance for work you have not done.

Given this conversation so far I don't expect a real answer but maybe you'll surprise me - Lets assume you spent 1 month of full time work adapting Protoshares (which you were paid to develop) to MemoryCoin.   What do you think is a reasonable amount to pay you for that time in US dollar terms.   What would be a compelling US dollar amount worth of pay be to convince you to give support to your project for say, a year?
   

and are you really comparing yourself to Satoshi with regards to holdings?   He could easily answer this question, he did not give himself any advantage or number of Bitcoins in the Genesis block of Bitcoin.   That is not true of MemoryCoin, and yes you gave some of those coins to other people but many of them went to you or addresses you control.   To be clear,  you are not willing to publicly share how many MemoryCoins you gave yourself in the Genesis Block of Memorycoin?

Adam, you are so right about so many things, and I hope more and more people will start to understand what FreeTrade is really doing here.
Why don't you run for CEO? You would get my votes and many more for sure. We already have a good new CMO on the way (I hope) so a decent guy in the CEO seat as well would be a big improvement.

Offline AdamBLevine

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You're totally right - How many MMC were assigned to addresses you directly or indirectly control, in the genesis block?    I believe you are the only one who can answer this and it seems like a vitally important transparency issue given this directly impacts voting and you've already shown that you've got no problem voting with a block of 40k because heck, didn't think it would be a conflict of interest to vote for yourself when you gave yourself coins for free!

That's been pointed out to above, acknowledged as a mistake and corrected. Its disappointing that you just repeat it without acknowledging the steps taken to correct it.  As for specific balances, I'm not getting into that, because it would never end, and I'm entitled to the same privacy as any other shareholders. I suggest you track down satoshi and ask him the same question.

So there is no amount of money that would keep you developing a day longer than you feel obligated to by the stream of freshly issued MMC flowing into your account (1% of the money supply) if you disagree with something the person who replaces you does.

I'd expect to disagree with lots of things, but overall direction is the important thing.

That's a pretty sweet deal, you work on it until someone kicks you out of the job then walk away with the sucker who replaced you doing all the work and you just disappear into the sunset with all the MMC you could grab from the premine and salary firehose.   

Will he be a sucker? I thought you said he would be heavily over-compensated. Make up your mind. I hope that everyone who gets involved with the coin does well out of it as we achieve the aims set forth in the manifesto.

Bottom line is you have LOTS of MMC, and it should be enough that you should *WANT* to develop this coin you've now initiated twice. This should be true even if you get voted out of the position to have 1% of the total money supply emptied in your pocket every block because you have taken so much pay in advance for work you have not done.

Given this conversation so far I don't expect a real answer but maybe you'll surprise me - Lets assume you spent 1 month of full time work adapting Protoshares (which you were paid to develop) to MemoryCoin.   What do you think is a reasonable amount to pay you for that time in US dollar terms.   What would be a compelling US dollar amount worth of pay be to convince you to give support to your project for say, a year?
   

and are you really comparing yourself to Satoshi with regards to holdings?   He could easily answer this question, he did not give himself any advantage or number of Bitcoins in the Genesis block of Bitcoin.   That is not true of MemoryCoin, and yes you gave some of those coins to other people but many of them went to you or addresses you control.   To be clear,  you are not willing to publicly share how many MemoryCoins you gave yourself in the Genesis Block of Memorycoin?

If you look at the timestamp on the edit, you'll notice I removed the reference to the MMC you used to vote for yourself before you posted a response.  With that said, just because you acknowledged you were doing something you shouldn't have doesn't make that an off-limits topic.  You are the Founder and CEO of a community focused project that already demonstrated a willingness to put your finger on the scale to serve your interests, you basically said "Whoops, shouldn't have done that" without explaining why you did it.
Email me at adam@letstalkbitcoin.com

emre

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Will let you know my address and post a candidacy thread, telling the world who I am and why I'm good for the job, once I have it.
Thank you

nice! it's good to see more people want to get involved to development of the currency.

waiting for your candidacy thread.

Offline itsik78

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I see that the CMO has been fired and I see this as a great step as he really didn't do anything other than a 30 links HTML site (and got paid around 5000 MMCs for that which is quite enough for 30 minutes work).
Any good candidates out there or should I offer myself for the job (with the 5 man team idea)?
I plan on marketing the coin in forums, offering it to exchanges and maintaining a new site, in case the old one is removed.
Most importantly, I plan to use most of the salary money for bounties for (reputable) bloggers and tech sites to write about the coin.
What I do not plan is sitting on the golden egg of this salary and doing the minimal work required for my own profit.
Please let me know within the hour before I offer myself.

Thank you

Candidates are listed here -
http://memorycoin.org/candidates/

As you see, we haven't had a lot of competition for CMO - I think it's because we're more of a technical community at the moment. I'm certainly happy to list your candidacy, although I'm a little worried you might just be trying to prove your point that it is possible to get elected with big promises and fail to deliver with no sanction other than the sack. I think the community would want to see results pretty quickly to trust you, and it would be helpful if you had any kind of track record to point to.

With regard to the previous CMO destroying his website out of spite - I doubt that would happen . . it's an asset for him and previous C*O's have an interest to see the coin succeed, not fail.
As I said, I definitely do not want to sit on the golden egg doing nothing as the community will sack me very quickly (now that everyone has awakened that a salary needs to be worked for).
I will create an MVTEcmo address and send it to you for listing.
As I said, I don't intend to take the salary only for myself and hope to give out BIG bounties and salaries for colleagues in the marketing division.
Will let you know my address and post a candidacy thread, telling the world who I am and why I'm good for the job, once I have it.
Thank you