Author Topic: Let`s kickstart the Stock derivatives Market  (Read 8340 times)

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Offline Empirical1.2

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These guys have been doing for a while with Bitcoin, https://1broker.com/ . Maybe we can work with them.

Good idea! BitShares seems to be a much better choice for this. I used them in the past for forex and stocks.

I think their selection is a good one to emulate in terms of amount of markets to start off.  https://1broker.com/?c=cfds

This is more the market the DEX can compete in and I imagine a BitAsset would be much cheaper if you planned to be long/short for any reasonable length of time https://1broker.com/?c=overnight_financing_calculator

They pay dividends by crediting long positions and debiting short position https://1broker.com/?c=help#dividends 
If you could emulate that then owning the underlying like DACX attempts to, is less important?
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Offline Pheonike

I made about 50 bitcoin going long with them 5x leverage during big rise 2013. But then lost most of it on the crash.  They stopped offering leverage on BTC for a long time after that.

Offline xeroc

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You guys know that this is a BUSINESS OPPORTUNITY where money can be made by however establishes a (privatized) bit asset tracking a successful asset and having high liquidity FIRST?

I for my self would provide them if I had access to reliable price sources (like bloomberg) and if my lawyer would tell me that it's safe to do ..

But why do this through a UIA instead of a SmartCoin? Doesn't the former expose all hodlers to counterparty risk?
Bitshares2 has so called privatized bitassets .. market pegged assets issued by someone

Offline Akado

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6k users, that's pretty good. Imagine having those actively trading on BitShares
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Offline karnal

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These guys have been doing for a while with Bitcoin, https://1broker.com/ . Maybe we can work with them.

Good idea! BitShares seems to be a much better choice for this. I used them in the past for forex and stocks.

Offline karnal

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You guys know that this is a BUSINESS OPPORTUNITY where money can be made by however establishes a (privatized) bit asset tracking a successful asset and having high liquidity FIRST?

I for my self would provide them if I had access to reliable price sources (like bloomberg) and if my lawyer would tell me that it's safe to do ..

But why do this through a UIA instead of a SmartCoin? Doesn't the former expose all hodlers to counterparty risk?

Offline Pheonike

These guys have been doing for a while with Bitcoin, https://1broker.com/ . Maybe we can work with them.

Offline Xypher

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You guys know that this is a BUSINESS OPPORTUNITY where money can be made by however establishes a (privatized) bit asset tracking a successful asset and having high liquidity FIRST?

I for my self would provide them if I had access to reliable price sources (like bloomberg) and if my lawyer would tell me that it's safe to do ..
So true.
I had a hedge fund manager friend of mine interested in donig this through an offshore entity.
Maybe he could partner with @ccedk  and do it.

Offline xeroc

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You guys know that this is a BUSINESS OPPORTUNITY where money can be made by however establishes a (privatized) bit asset tracking a successful asset and having high liquidity FIRST?

I for my self would provide them if I had access to reliable price sources (like bloomberg) and if my lawyer would tell me that it's safe to do ..

Offline morpheus

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Unfortunately none of the MPAs/bitassets/smartcoins are serving there purpose due to lack of liquidity, large spreads and no depth.

All efforts should be focused on getting bitUSD and bitCNY functioning with low spreads and market depth.

We are a long way from having stock market indexs as MPAs let alone individual stocks.

Agreed but it would be nice to have the largest indicies set up and ready to go for when liquidity does enter the system.    These 15 world markets would be a good start and to show that this is not just another cryptocurrency exchange.

I like the idea of committee assisting with liquidity but the biggest difference is likely to come with maker and the lending market.  Reducing forced settlement to 99% globally may also be necessary to increase liquidity.  Guaranteeing settlement at parity just gets really confusing for outsiders because of the premium. 

Offline luckybit

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BitUSD will never work without micropayment capability. It's impossible to market it to the globe without micropayments. It's impossible to have a truly useful global currency without microtransactions.

With micropayments a worker can take the job which pays a penny or less. You can't offer these jobs at all right now because you don't have the capability to do it decentralized. This means the majority of workers in the world will have to go somewhere else to work, which means BitUSD is useless since less than a few hundred people have ever earned it directly and most of us on the forum haven't even earned it.

Brownies are only slightly better but it's totally centralized distribution. EarnBitshares can work if there are micorpayments, and if there aren't, then some substitute currency can work in the background and be exchange for Bitshares to create demand. But either way, micropayments are the only way the whole world will care about Bitshares.
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Offline Samupaha

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What is needed to bring Stock derivatives online?

You would need at least $50k worth of stocks in you possession to back you up, and ability to buy and sell them on exchanges promptly. You would need to collateralise your derivatives at 200% in bitshares. Do you have these funds?

No need to have both. If you are going to do a market pegged asset, you preferably need some BTS to create the initial batch of assets that are sold on the exchange. That way you'll kickstart the markets.

Or you have a fund that owns real stocks and you sell shares of that as a UIA. Will be more difficult to do because of regulations, but not necessarily impossible. When the wallet has KYC/AML-feature implemented, this might be a feasible project.

Offline luckybit

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What is needed to bring Stock derivatives online?
If I understand it correct the Committee could bring in a lot of MPAs that reflect the price of real Stocks, ETFs etc?
What is holding us back in creating those assets?

I would love to diversify my portfolio by mixing it with many more kinds of investments.
We could be the first Exchange to trade really anything.

This would bring us a lot of attention and thus more users and liquidity.
We should bring ever week a couple of new assets.
every week in the news
growing a bit every week

Thoughts?


Unfortunately none of the MPAs/bitassets/smartcoins are serving there purpose due to lack of liquidity, large spreads and no depth.

All efforts should be focused on getting bitUSD and bitCNY functioning with low spreads and market depth.

We are a long way from having stock market indexs as MPAs let alone individual stocks.
@JonnyBitcoin

There is no demand for BitUSD or BitCNY because currently Bitshares is just a programmers toy. In order to change this we need EarnBitshares so anyone can earn BitUSD, BitCNY, and only then will it gain some real value.

You currently have no simple ways to earn or spend it. With limited ways to earn or spend it, can we expect any demand for it? Microwork is how you can generate demand for it by marketing it to the people most likely to use it. A microjob (a job which pays in micropayments) is how you market a currency. Currencies are marketed by the jobs which pay in that currency.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microwork
http://humancomputation.org/

What seems to be holding Bitshares back is the lack of micro-payment capability. Without that you don't have the possibility of microwork. WIthout microwork, the vast majority of the earth cannot earn BitUSD and it's just going to remain a programmers toy.  With microwork, every human can contribute human computation to earn Bitshares and the chicken and egg problem is solved.

I don't think Bitshares is on the path to solve this problem anytime soon so it looks like we should keep our eye on Iota. A collaboration with their team might be the only option.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2016, 06:37:48 am by luckybit »
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Offline bitacer

OP: Why not create at least one asset by yourself, just like what bitcrab did? It's just 5000 BTS of fee. If you don't like to own the asset, just update the owner to committee-account so the committee will be able to deal with the following matters when needed.
Witnesses would need efforts/fund to maintain price feeding for your asset. Best if you can fund @xeroc to implement a price feed script first.

Let's do it? Just do it.

I have a few to spare.

Offline puppies

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Is there a free real-time stock tracking api we could plug into our price feeds? 

As a witness I'll gladly run any price feed that I can have reasonable assurance will be accurate. 

As a committee member I'll gladly vote to add any mpa that I think will be able to accurately track it's real life counterpart.
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