No dilution. Now what? Everyone anti dilution please report.

[sudo]

see what   BTSdac do
why develop  must dilution?

[sudo]

FBA is good
make income  base on bitshares
divide the income  that's ok

[freedom]

To sustain BTS's marketcap , investors are always more important than users . Especially "speculators" . So-called Long term investors only provide liquidity once .

So basically you think that BTS is just another pump'n'dump coin and not a share of a DAC?

BTS is shares . Shares are pump and dumps according to basic and simple economical common sense .

Every shares in the world is about predicting its potential/future and speculative on it short term/long term beyond or below their actual value.

BTS has no product . Even the basic product is built on top of shares . Hence another speculative design .

If I have the time , I could write a thesis to explain it . Sadly I don't .

In order to have a profitable business with actual economical income , you need outside income . But BTS by design can only accept inside shares as income . It's the exact meaning of "inner-circulation" . People can only pay the system by the speculative value of BTS , not by real outside money like fiat/btc . And BTS holders can not get dividend from actual outside value .

Hmm....I think I may lost you here .

If I build a machine that provides a service that people find useful,
and people pay "real" money to buy tickets to use that machine,
then that machine is a valid business. 

The fact that people speculate on the future value of those tickets is a completely orthogonal proposition.

I don't think so. It's stupid. You can use a robot to do these by a worker, do not need to dilute, no users who come to the transaction?

[chryspano]

If this is true then where is the thread with their "concerns"? are they shy?

I will be the bad guy and say that it has purely to do with FUD, pump and dumps, lack of information, anti-dillution dogmatism and frastration from low price. It's easy to sway puplic opinion when most of them don't bother to read (or can't read) the English forum. In desperate times people can believe anyone and anything, FUDers included, pump and dumpers included. All you need is a delusional alt a buthurt btswildpig and some malice/bad intentions from a third actor and here we are...

No one so far answered the op, noone answered my other question about the end of the merger "inflation" in 8 months and the effect they expect to have on the price, they are just running around like headless chickens.

Here is my question once more and they know where to find the OP if they are in the mood to answer...

What about the 12% inflation from the merger? in 8 months it ends, don't you think that this is more than enought for the price? It's much more that a "halving" in btc terms. From 18% inflation we drop to 6% this not enought? we need to kill EVERY worker right now?

[onceuponatime]

What if the entire anti-dilution movement which is primarily coming out of China is merely them seeing the rate of pay for Westerners and comparing it to their own and they are being told that they are taking too much from BTS and have to be stopped?

What if it was something that simple?

We have seen threads talking about 'shame' ... maybe this is how they are viewing things?

That's very likely a big part of it.

[BunkerChainLabs-DataSecurityNode]

What if the entire anti-dilution movement which is primarily coming out of China is merely them seeing the rate of pay for Westerners and comparing it to their own and they are being told that they are taking too much from BTS and have to be stopped?

What if it was something that simple?

We have seen threads talking about 'shame' ... maybe this is how they are viewing things?

[xeroc]

What is even worse, we have the means to support those that provide work to the ecosystem and still they get beaten down because they need to justify them selves over and over and still dont get anything out of it.
Feom a developers perspective, its no wonder people prefer the much more healthy developer community at ethereum.

I hope those that are in the anti "dilution" camp include this image damage in their calculations.

[tbone]

If the intent of the anti-dilution crowd is to act as a counter-balance to those who might dilute to fund any and every worker proposal under the sun, then I can appreciate that.  And in that case we can all participate in very healthy debates as to which proposals are worthy and which are not.  After all, we do need to make sure we're spending wisely. 

But if their intent is to prevent any dilution whatsoever, then they are in favor of zero development, total stagnation, and a slow but sure death for Bitshares.  That is a fact.  No business can be sustained without maintenance and ongoing development, especially in a highly competitive and fast-paced environment.  Anyone who would take a completely hard line against dilution is either woefully ignorant or intends to sabotage Bitshares and should be shunned from the community.

[BunkerChainLabs-DataSecurityNode]

I would like to see the OPs question answered also.

I would like to know what the grand master plan is because it seems like a go nowhere proposition.

I have attempted to get clarification in numerous conversations only to be lead in circles from one topic to another with no clear answers.

I can't imagine any other way to ask in more open and clear terms than the OP has to explain the reasoning.

So it would be great if @alt  would join in here along with all his supporters to explain the grand plan.

[Stan]

People buy virtual currency because bitcoin is a deflation currency, it gives rise to expectations. If the bitshares continue to dilute, it is expected to depreciate, people will be far away from the bitshares. Everything we do is for more people to participate in, a project that is not involved in the project is a failure.


I support alt

Bitcoin is NOT deflationary, they are creating 3600 btc every day to pay miners and electric power companies.

Exactly, Bitcoin has dilution but has an incentive structure mask it. Why can't the anti-dilutue ppl see this. The dilution is not that important, it's how those funds are being used which is the most important. I can understand if you don't support a particular worker, but not to support anything just doesn't make sense.

Bitcoin dilution was paid to people with money to support the industry .
BTS dilution is paid to people with no money but the need the sell .
I even know bitcoin miners brought more bitcoin with their profit when Bitcoin price is low or going up . BTS delegate/worker ever done that ?

I fail to see you can compare the two . Mining created a barrier so that Bitcoin only falls into those people with the power to support it .

No one ties up capital where it won't earn money for them (and remains in business for very long).

Bitcoin miners get a rate of return above the cost of the capital they keep tied up.  If not, they invest in something that will treat their money better.  (Perhaps US Treasury bonds?    )

And miners do produce sell pressure that on the average exactly equals the rate of mining (dilution) - it's their whole business model. 

Show me which mining cartel "with money to support the industry" is putting in more money on a sustained average than they are taking out by selling newly-mined bitcoins.

[Samupaha]

I cannot conclude which one was the major cause of the price move. Most likely, it was a combination of multiple factors.
However, I may say that at least anti-dilution didn't destroy our market cap.

Not investing in development doesn't show in the short term. It will be seen on the long term price change.

BTS price has been declining for a long time and my explanation is that we, as a DAC, haven't been able to attract customers. Investors don't want to buy shares of a company that doesn't have customers. Investors don't believe that shareprice can go up in the long term without customers.

Only solution is to attract more customers so people can believe that Bitshares will be profitable DAC someday. Without using the funds that are in reserve pool it's very difficult to fund new development that is necessary to get new customers. FBAs are one possibility but I don't remember "antidilution" people showing any interest in them.

[clayop]

The price at Feb 4 (when alt started anti-dilution post): $0.003215. Now $0.004176. +29.9%.

Just coincidence? During the same period, Dash went down -7.6%, Doge increased slightly, +6.7%

And you imply tht this effect is tge sole result of alts voting? I wonder what happens if the others that are working behind the scene doing business developmwnt and coding just do something else.

Or in other words, what fraction of that raise is a result of
- cnx developing stealth
- me developing python tools
- business development happening behind the scenes?
- educational material maturing constantly

Please tell me!

I cannot conclude which one was the major cause of the price move. Most likely, it was a combination of multiple factors.
However, I may say that at least anti-dilution didn't destroy our market cap.

[gamey]

I even know bitcoin miners brought more bitcoin with their profit when Bitcoin price is low or going up . BTS delegate/worker ever done that ?

didnt know I was supposed to tell you z
that I have put way more into BTS than just my 'time' .. you can also see that I have nevet sold any of my 'earned' BTS.

Your statement ia pretty disappointing.

Well he also said shares are 'pump and dumps' by basic economic sense.  Which is completely different from what I understand stocks to be. Some stocks are of nothing, but ...  To say stocks are pump and dumps by their nature is  like saying that anything you ever buy/sell is a pump and dump.  So people are on far different pages here.

I've still never seen what people expect to happen if development ceases.  ... what ... is ... the ... endgame ?

Personally I try to avoid being so negative. Mainly just because of all the people who still continue to pour their time and passions into this project.

[xeroc]

The price at Feb 4 (when alt started anti-dilution post): $0.003215. Now $0.004176. +29.9%.

Just coincidence? During the same period, Dash went down -7.6%, Doge increased slightly, +6.7%

And you imply tht this effect is tge sole result of alts voting? I wonder what happens if the others that are working behind the scene doing business developmwnt and coding just do something else.

Or in other words, what fraction of that raise is a result of
- cnx developing stealth
- me developing python tools
- business development happening behind the scenes?
- educational material maturing constantly

Please tell me!

[btswildpig]

I even know bitcoin miners brought more bitcoin with their profit when Bitcoin price is low or going up . BTS delegate/worker ever done that ?

didnt know I was supposed to tell you z
that I have put way more into BTS than just my 'time' .. you can also see that I have nevet sold any of my 'earned' BTS.

Your statement ia pretty disappointing.

I'm merely pointing out the fact that mining didn't killed Bitcoin is because those who mined have capital to sustain it long term .
Hence Bitcoin mining is unlike other coins dilution (especially all of the PoS coins , not just BTS) .

So it's wrong to even compare the two .  The role of the dilution is totally different .
In bitcoin , dilution is for allocation .