Author Topic: Sharedrop Theory & BitUSD Yield - Increasing BTS value now and bootstrapping DEX  (Read 7187 times)

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Offline Empirical1.2

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Don't forget our principle.
If you forgot about it,please read it again and again:
Quote
Three Laws of Robotics for Distributed Autonomous Corporations

A DAC must always obey its own published business rules.
A DAC must never change its rules without consent of its stakeholders, except where such change would conflict with the First Law.
A DAC must protect its own existence, as long as such protection does not conflict with the first two laws.

https://letstalkbitcoin.com/bitcoin-and-the-three-laws-of-robotics#.UkVJWobxiXx

This concept is within the BTS business rules and it would also need the consent of stakeholders anyway, so I don't see how it goes against those principles?
« Last Edit: February 26, 2016, 09:38:12 am by Empirical1.2 »
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Offline tbone

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You can create all kinds of FBA and UIA to sharedrop.
You will say your FBA and UIA are valueless,then where are the BTS's values ?
I approve of initiating subsidies to users ,but I object to robbing shareholders.

Why crypto fans belittle us:we loss our principle.
Who can tell me what is our  principle.

Robbing shareholders??  You think bootstrapping BitAssets and jump starting the DEX is robbing shareholders??  I guess you don't realize there is NO shareholder value without liquid BitAssets and people using the DEX.  Also, do you understand that any shareholder can become a user so they can enjoy the "subsidies" (i.e. yield) in addition to the enhanced shareholder value?  So the shareholder wins twice.  Is this difficult for you to understand?

Offline ebit

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Do you eager for quick success?
If you are true .
Then you are losser.
Don't forget our principle.
If you forgot about it,please read it again and again:
Quote
Three Laws of Robotics for Distributed Autonomous Corporations

A DAC must always obey its own published business rules.
A DAC must never change its rules without consent of its stakeholders, except where such change would conflict with the First Law.
A DAC must protect its own existence, as long as such protection does not conflict with the first two laws.

https://letstalkbitcoin.com/bitcoin-and-the-three-laws-of-robotics#.UkVJWobxiXx
« Last Edit: February 26, 2016, 07:57:49 am by ebit »
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Offline puptothekit

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OP makes a compelling case.  Will the community rally around this idea?  There is still time for BitShares to become one of the dominant chains alongside Ethereum and Bitcoin, but the window of opportunity is starting to close.

Offline ebit

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You can create all kinds of FBA and UIA to sharedrop.
You will say your FBA and UIA are valueless,then where are the BTS's values ?
I approve of initiating subsidies to users ,but I object to robbing shareholders.

Why crypto fans belittle us:we loss our principle.
Who can tell me what is our  principle.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2016, 07:55:07 am by ebit »
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Offline tonyk

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Yes, really nice analysis indeed.  I'm almost at the point where I would support this wholeheartedly.  Although I'd really like to hear the opinions of some of the other reasonable, rational people around here.  Also, I did have a couple more questions on the other thread:

https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,21597.msg281941.html#msg281941

By the way, tony claimed this proposal would cost 40% of total worker funds.  But it's actually more like 33%.  We can also cut the yield in half, so in that case we're looking at less than 17%.  I think that's a small price to pay to help bootstrap the DEX.  C'mon people, we need to take action here, otherwise we'll just fade away!

well, 38.9 but if in your math world 38.9 is closer to 33 than 40, sure.

and why we stop ourselves at cutting the yield in halve? we can divide it by 4, 8 or even 32.

----------------------

btc yield hardly ever falls below 40%*
we for sure will beat that with 2.5% interest on bitAssests....cause we are decentralized and we have proven this beats the hell out of centralized exchanges any time.

*Interesting enough if BTC  did not have that "no dilution, dilution thingy" , you know the same "hard cap total, the  BTS has,  and steady supply of new minted coins"... it will never have this ridiculous interest, but instead a much higher price.

But all we can do is copy the bad (like 5 years old bad, which in crypto terms is 50 or 75 years old bad)...
Lack of arbitrage is the problem, isn't it. And this 'should' solves it.

Offline Empirical1.2

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I would add that if you yield harvest during a yield promotion you get the benefit of the BTS price increase from new BTS yield seeking demand while being re-imbursed the cost & as yield harvesting is fairly circular in nature, the true cost to the DAC is probably even lower than described in this OP.

We could attract users like Paypal to use the DEX, only it wouldn't be the dex itself. OpenLedger is a centralized service. Have it do that per each user that registers their identity with a high tier (detailed info).

It isn't BitShares itself, but as long as they use BitShares, is all that matters. And not 10 USD but $10 worth of OPEN.BTC so they would trade it.

A large majority would convert it to BTC and say thanks for the free money. If Openledger has money set aside to fund the promotion it may be +EV based on how many new customers they create and how much they will earn from them in trading fees over time. However if they didn't have funds set aside and tried to absorb the short term cost through something like OBITS, they would go bust really fast imo.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2016, 09:36:32 pm by Empirical1.2 »
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Offline Akado

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We could attract users like Paypal to use the DEX, only it wouldn't be the dex itself. OpenLedger is a centralized service. Have it do that per each user that registers their identity with a high tier (detailed info).

It isn't BitShares itself, but as long as they use BitShares, is all that matters. And not 10 USD but $10 worth of OPEN.BTC so they would trade it.
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Offline tbone

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Yes, really nice analysis indeed.  I'm almost at the point where I would support this wholeheartedly.  Although I'd really like to hear the opinions of some of the other reasonable, rational people around here.  Also, I did have a couple more questions on the other thread:

https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,21597.msg281941.html#msg281941

By the way, tony claimed this proposal would cost 40% of total worker funds.  But it's actually more like 33%.  We can also cut the yield in half, so in that case we're looking at less than 17%.  I think that's a small price to pay to help bootstrap the DEX.  C'mon people, we need to take action here, otherwise we'll just fade away!


Offline chono

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Fully agree. Let's see how quickly we can do this, because other teams read this Forum to get their inspiration.
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Offline onceuponatime

Fully agree. Let's see how quickly we can do this, because other teams read this Forum to get their inspiration.

Offline Empirical1.2

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Theory

1. A centralized company can benefit from Sign-up/Deposit bonuses but a DAC/Alt-Coin usually can't, especially in the short term.
2. A DAC/Alt-Coin can benefit in the short and medium term from delayed bonuses such as subsidizing yield but a centralized exchange usually can't.

1. Sign-up/Deposit Bonuses or in Crypto, 'Sharedrops'

Centralized Companies: When a company decides to give away free money. Say the historic PayPal bootstrapping example or Coinbase offering lets say $20 to each new customer. Coinbase/PayPal will either have money set aside or they will have borrowed at very low interest.

Say they attract 10 000 people to that promotion, that will cost them $200 000. Provided say 1000 of those people become regular customers and they generate $201 in trading fees from them over the next 1-3 years, then that could be a positive EV investment and could also help bootstrap their exchange.

DACs/Alt-Coins: When a DAC decides to give away free money. Say the DEX decides to offer $20 to each new customer. We do not have funds set aside and we will be paying for that out of BTS shares.

BTS clearly cannot easily support $200 000 of new sell pressure so that initiative would decrease the value of BTS by much more than that, possibly many millions of dolllars of value will be lost from BTS during that promotion. (This is why you see nearly every DAC that attempts a Sharedrop/New User bonus loses most of it's value, often 90%+ and fails to bootstrap it's product and often even recover at all.)

Caveat: It's OK to sharedrop in the very beginning as a distribution method because your DAC has no value yet.

Conclusion: A DAC/DEX cannot attract users the way Coinbase/PayPal can (Because the cost of acquisition is often many multiples higher.)

2. Subsidizing Yield and Exchange liquidity

Centralized Companies: If Coinbase offered their customers a bit of yield on their balance & subsidized liquidity that promotion would represent a massive loss to them for an extended period of time with no near term benefit. (For example if they had obligations of 3% on exchange balances annually they would be losing $300 000 a year per $10 million on their exchange with no income coming in.) The more successful that promotion was, the more money would be flowing out of their business every month over the next 1-3 years. This would not be a good way for them to bootstrap their exchange.

DACs/Alt-Coins: If a DAC/Alt offered their customers a bit of yield on their balance & subsidized liquidity that promotion would need to be funded via BTS sales which would represent a loss in value (Due to BTS being sold to fund it) unless those sales were offset by equal/greater BTS demand as the result of the same promotion.   

Example:

Lets say the obligations amounted to 3% per year. For every $30 000 of BTS put up for sale to fund the obligation over the next 12 months ($2500 a month) there would have been $1 000 000 in new BTS demand (To purchase the BitUSD to be entitled to that obligation) So rather than the short term valuation loss experienced with Sharedrops/Bonuses, BTS would experience very large BTS demand growth & so the promotion would rapidly increase the value of BTS in the near term.

In fact until such time as annual new BTS demand attracted by that specific promotion was less than 3% of BitAssets currently in circulation it would be a net gain to BTS.

So during the bootstrapping phase of the DEX's product life-cycle you can actually offer yield and some conservative liquidity subsidies which a centralized exchange never could.



As the product matures you decrease and ultimately remove the incentives (yield and liquidity subsidies) so your monthly obligation goes down to zero.

Again, while the promotion is attracting new BTS demand there is no value loss to the DAC and once new demand is not sufficient to offset the cost of that promotion it is curtailed and the monthly obligation of BTS goes down to zero while having experienced all that net new BTS demand. (& hopefully have bootstrapped the DEX to the point that those promotions are no longer needed.)

(Not to be confused with a ponzi. In a ponzi when there is not enough new money coming in to offset obligations to previous investors it collapses because members can't be re-imbursed. In BTS, all the BitUSD previously created would still be there and be fully collateralized but the promotion which offered yield and perhaps some liquidity would be phased out. Though if you suddenly stopped a very large promotion, such as suddenly removing very high yield or lots of liquidity, some people might force settle their BitAssets and sell BTS creating downward pressure on the price. )

Conclusion: A DAC/Alt-Coin can experience a rapid short and medium term valuation increase by subsidizing yield and possibly liquidity while also bootstrapping it's product long term at the same time.

Up until now, most DACs/Alt-Coins have been attempting to bootstrap using option 1 and have experienced large losses and little bootstrapping as a result. Option 2 is the way to bootstrap a DAC imo as it increases share value & helps bootstrap the product in a way that centralized companies/exchanges can't because their shares aren't the product.

« Last Edit: February 25, 2016, 03:55:31 pm by Empirical1.2 »
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