Author Topic: Radium & Expanse  (Read 7237 times)

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Offline fuzzy

you can try to learn what you did wrong and improve. 


If I am reading tuck's comments correctly, this is precisely what he has been trying to do - to help us.  His "criticisms" are points that he wanted bts community to take note, reflect on them, avoid those things that we did wrong and make improvements.

definitely agree. but we have to realize our tech is great...its our hype machine that is broken.
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Offline werneo

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Is there any way to truly win the hearts and minds of the people back?

Here's one perception from the outside, that in my mind, is one of the biggest hindrances to BitShares adoption ...

Quote
Don't buy bitshares. You'll get stuck with bags. Simply open up the full chart of BTS since the beginning. It is virtually impossible for it to go to new heights due to the massive layers of bag holders it would have to drill through. Don't fall for it. Stay away from BTS. There are way more better crypto's out there that actually are going up in value due to the tech behind it. A little research goes a long way. BTS is risky as fuck. Don't fall for it, and know this channel's primary purpose is to push people into BTS and out of bitcoin.

This is from a recent Daily Decrypt episode, but it's not an isolated opinion, just the latest example of it being publicly displayed.

So how does BitShares solve this?



Well, that's one way. ;)

The bottom line is, once the "massive layers of bag holders it would have to drill through" or at least that perception if you don't want to face that it is possibly a reality, is gone things should pick up.

But let me get this out of the way while it's on my mind ...

I completely understand how some perceive my post as "beating up on BitShares", but know that I do 99.5% of that here in this forum and outside of this forum I'm promoting BitShares, even when not deserved in some cases, to my own detriment for years.

It's not like I love downvotes or negative feedback, but honestly that's about all I get when posting positively about BitShares outside of this forum.

It's a big reason why I come back here to vent my frustration in an attempt to wake everyone up to the outside world's impression of BitShares and in an attempt to create change here by inspiring the right people who are willing and able to make changes that will affect the outside perception.

I completely understand that my methods of doing this are not always appreciated because my methods are generally considered to be abrasive and unloving, but I can assure you that it's not coming from a bad place with ill intentions.

It's coming from a sports background in an attempt to piss you off and fire your asses up without caring how you feel about me for doing it, as long as those it's directed at pay attention to what's actually being said, understand that it's for your own good and hope that a change in attitude and actions is formed and acted upon due to my frustration with BitShares underperformance being unleashed upon the entire "team" of individuals in an attempt to band you all together (against me if that's what it takes) to do your part and help each other out instead of relying on one guy to knock it out of the park to win the game.

We're not a power hitting club any longer. We're now a small ball club and we need to manufacture runs by taking the walk when needed or sticking a knee out if necessary, bunting the guy over, stealing the extra base and being aggressive on the basepaths.

Most importantly, keep your head in the game!

Support each other at the plate from the dugout (upvote, retweet, Plus1, comment, tip) instead of chewing bubble gum and looking at the girls/guys in the bleachers.

Show up for practice (aka Hangouts) and participate!

... OK, I've rambled on long enough and think you get the picture.

Now get out there and [insert your favorite inspiring sports speech from history]!!!

 +5% go tuck!

Offline cube

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you can try to learn what you did wrong and improve. 


If I am reading tuck's comments correctly, this is precisely what he has been trying to do - to help us.  His "criticisms" are points that he wanted bts community to take note, reflect on them, avoid those things that we did wrong and make improvements.
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Offline puppies

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I love you tuck.  I was openly and honestly wanting feedback about what is wrong with bitshares.  I view our market cap as kind of a scorecard of the markets view of our worth.  I think that ultimately it is the network that is the actual product.  That means that you and I, and everyone else here is what is being judged at a paltry $15M market cap.  I don't think anyone is happy with our current valuation. 

Does anyone think that we have been wildly sucessful?  Moderately successful?  When you fail at something you can either blame others, or you can try to learn what you did wrong and improve.  I personally don't have tons of time to keep my finger on the pulse of crypto.  I probably spend more time in this forum than I should considering my limited time available. 

Anyways I wanted to say I appreciate the honesty, and would appreciate hearing more about what you think is currently wrong with bitshares.  I think anyone that doesn't realize that we have tons of bagholders that will dump all over the true believers is fooling themselves.  I don't know what we can do about that, other than to work to build the value of the bitshares network.  Build on top of it, and welcome those willing to help us build. 

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Offline Tuck Fheman

Is there any way to truly win the hearts and minds of the people back?

Here's one perception from the outside, that in my mind, is one of the biggest hindrances to BitShares adoption ...

Quote
Don't buy bitshares. You'll get stuck with bags. Simply open up the full chart of BTS since the beginning. It is virtually impossible for it to go to new heights due to the massive layers of bag holders it would have to drill through. Don't fall for it. Stay away from BTS. There are way more better crypto's out there that actually are going up in value due to the tech behind it. A little research goes a long way. BTS is risky as fuck. Don't fall for it, and know this channel's primary purpose is to push people into BTS and out of bitcoin.

This is from a recent Daily Decrypt episode, but it's not an isolated opinion, just the latest example of it being publicly displayed.

So how does BitShares solve this?



Well, that's one way. ;)

The bottom line is, once the "massive layers of bag holders it would have to drill through" or at least that perception if you don't want to face that it is possibly a reality, is gone things should pick up.

But let me get this out of the way while it's on my mind ...

I completely understand how some perceive my post as "beating up on BitShares", but know that I do 99.5% of that here in this forum and outside of this forum I'm promoting BitShares, even when not deserved in some cases, to my own detriment for years.

It's not like I love downvotes or negative feedback, but honestly that's about all I get when posting positively about BitShares outside of this forum.

It's a big reason why I come back here to vent my frustration in an attempt to wake everyone up to the outside world's impression of BitShares and in an attempt to create change here by inspiring the right people who are willing and able to make changes that will affect the outside perception.

I completely understand that my methods of doing this are not always appreciated because my methods are generally considered to be abrasive and unloving, but I can assure you that it's not coming from a bad place with ill intentions.

It's coming from a sports background in an attempt to piss you off and fire your asses up without caring how you feel about me for doing it, as long as those it's directed at pay attention to what's actually being said, understand that it's for your own good and hope that a change in attitude and actions is formed and acted upon due to my frustration with BitShares underperformance being unleashed upon the entire "team" of individuals in an attempt to band you all together (against me if that's what it takes) to do your part and help each other out instead of relying on one guy to knock it out of the park to win the game.

We're not a power hitting club any longer. We're now a small ball club and we need to manufacture runs by taking the walk when needed or sticking a knee out if necessary, bunting the guy over, stealing the extra base and being aggressive on the basepaths.

Most importantly, keep your head in the game!

Support each other at the plate from the dugout (upvote, retweet, Plus1, comment, tip) instead of chewing bubble gum and looking at the girls/guys in the bleachers.

Show up for practice (aka Hangouts) and participate!

... OK, I've rambled on long enough and think you get the picture.

Now get out there and [insert your favorite inspiring sports speech from history]!!!

« Last Edit: March 30, 2016, 01:17:18 am by Tuck Fheman »
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Offline nomoreheroes7

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I wonder if the way this forum handles criticism is a reason why this Community has the reputation it has?

Hmmm ... I'll have to ponder that one with some colleagues who no longer come around ... for some reason.

I like hearing criticism; it's good to avoid isolating ourselves and ignoring the outside POV. I just wish more of the criticisms had concrete solutions -- how exactly does a blockchain improve its reputation? A lot of people like to bring up the merger and the whole "rules keep changing" mantra, but from what I've seen the rules have been pretty much solid since the transition to 2.0.

Is there any way to truly win the hearts and minds of the people back? Kind of seems like no matter what happens, as long as the price is low (relatively speaking) you'll always have unhappy investors and those who will nitpick at every little thing looking for the one true "aha! that's why the price is low" answer.

So the solution should be to increase our marketcap. Happy investors = happy community = happy devs = ? ? ? = profit

But which comes first -- happiness, or marketcap? Almost seems like a chicken and egg scenario.

 ???

Sorry, just rambling ideas. Carry on.

Offline BunkerChainLabs-DataSecurityNode

I wonder if the way this forum handles criticism is a reason why this Community has the reputation it has?

Hmmm ... I'll have to ponder that one with some colleagues who no longer come around ... for some reason.

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Offline Tuck Fheman

I wonder if the way this forum handles criticism is a reason why this Community has the reputation it has?

Hmmm ... I'll have to ponder that one with some colleagues who no longer come around ... for some reason.
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Offline Tuck Fheman

First of all, you were comparing volume of EXP in the midst of a pump

Which probably explains why I said ...

That should never happen, even on a pump & dump.

I have listened to interviews with the EXP lead dev and I must say that I have not been especially impressed.  I mean, I'm sure he's a bright enough guy, but if you're putting him in *remotely* the same category as DL, you are off your rocker. 

Which probably explains why I never compared their coding skills but instead said ...

I hate to say it, but CF probably has a better reputation in this ecosystem than DL.

And then went on to say ...

I'm not saying I agree and whether or not their reputations are warranted can be debated, but from my observations it appears to be a fact.

While you claim that no one is willing to try the BItshares wallet, the actual facts are quite different.

Actually I didn't say "no one", as you indicate above, here's what I actually said ...

So much so that it appears most are unwilling to even give it a try by downloading the wallet.

And again, since most respondents seem to want to make up what I said and create straw men to attack, let me quote myself once more ...

That's just my observation and opinion.

And the main points which every one of you seem to want to avoid for some reason and instead create straw men to attack ...

I think BTS should be trading in the millions daily and the fact that it isn't speaks volumes and clearly shows something is (still) wrong and something (still) needs to change.

BitShares should be worried. Not about these other projects, but about it's own reputation outside of this forum.

It seems like it doesn't really matter how good BitShares is, what features it rolls out, how far ahead of XYZ it is ... the crypto-masses are simply avoiding it and have a predetermined bad impression of the platform.

No straw men here.  I'm just wondering why you keep using falsehoods to beat up on Bitshares. 

you are off your rocker. 

::)

I don't feel that I beat up on BitShares at all. I gave my opinion and you made up things I didn't say and then attacked the straw man you created and then attacked me personally.

Hey, I have an idea!

How about you guys/gals actually read what I write if you want to address the points I make?

But if you want to make things up I didn't say and attack those staw man points and attack me personally, well you can ...

view the youtube video in my sig (NSFW).

 ;D

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Offline tbone

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Expanse is a coin where the dev premine is 10 million and the "current supply" is 2 million.  I got hyped 100x already because ETH got hyped.

And yet way more daily volume than BTS.  :-\

That should never happen, even on a pump & dump.

I think it's a clear signal of the impression of BTS outside of this forum when two projects few have heard of can get 5x the daily volume of BTS going at any point in time.

I think BTS should be trading in the millions daily and the fact that it isn't speaks volumes and clearly shows something is (still) wrong and something (still) needs to change.

That's just my observation and opinion.

First of all, you were comparing volume of EXP in the midst of a pump, to the volume of BTS in the healthy, low-volume consolidation period following its own high volume pump. But if you compare apples to apples, BTS volume is FAR greater than that of EXP.  In fact, few coins on Poloniex trade the volume BTS does.  The only ones that even remotely compare on a regular basis are MAID, FCT, XMR, and DASH.  Of those, I think only MAID truly rivals BTS in terms of volume. 

After looking into the Expanse "premine" you mention, I don't see an issue.

Christopher (defaced) has explained it well enough for me and their solution is better than what Ethereum did for funding IMHO.

So the fact that it currently has a higher daily volume than BTS is no longer surprising to me.

It's an ETH clone, which has all of the current hype going for it, with a better funding solution and "appears" to be more decentralized in ways ... and I like the wallet. ;)

I hate to say it, but CF probably has a better reputation in this ecosystem than DL.

I'm not saying I agree and whether or not their reputations are warranted can be debated, but from my observations it appears to be a fact.



I have listened to interviews with the EXP lead dev and I must say that I have not been especially impressed.  I mean, I'm sure he's a bright enough guy, but if you're putting him in *remotely* the same category as DL, you are off your rocker.  Don't get me wrong, I owned a substantial chunk of EXP and made a BOATLOAD on the first pump.  Then I reloaded on the pullback to 4500, so I'm very happy with EXP.   But I only own it as somewhat of a hedge and I believe it will probably continue to ride the ETH coattails even though it will most likely NEVER truly amount to very much as a crypto project in its own right. 

BitShares should be worried. Not about these other projects, but about it's own reputation outside of this forum.

It seems like it doesn't really matter how good BitShares is, what features it rolls out, how far ahead of XYZ it is ... the crypto-masses are simply avoiding it and have a predetermined bad impression of the platform.

So much so that it appears most are unwilling to even give it a try by downloading the wallet.

The only interaction outsiders appear to have is during a pump and dump on a centralized exchange, otherwise they won't touch BTS.

The reasons for this should be identified (although some would argue that's been concluded long ago), addressed and rectified asap.

Otherwise I don't see BitShares ever stepping out of the shadows of mediocre exchange performance (i.e. "userbase").

If anyone disagrees, be sure to view the youtube video in my sig (NSFW).  :P  (I jest ... I love to hear others opinions, except fav's  :P)



While you claim that no one is willing to try the BItshares wallet, the actual facts are quite different.  The reality is that the DEX is being used more and more by a substantially growing number of people.  Of course, we're not nearly where we want to be.  We still need liquidity measures in order to to bootstrap BitAssets.  And we need the web hosted wallet with stealth features and 2FA to be released.  But we're heading in the right direction and adoption is clearly picking up. 

No straw men here.  I'm just wondering why you keep using falsehoods to beat up on Bitshares. 

Offline Tuck Fheman

To further my point ... http://forums.prohashing.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=782 ... anyone see BitShares mentioned?  :-\
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Offline Tuck Fheman

Oh shit, we should be more like expanse!

Quick let's raise our blocktime to 60 seconds!!

to the moooon!!!!!

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1173722.msg12356869#msg12356869

a strawman is an argument with no real validity.  Thus the term "strawman" :P

I tend to agree 100% with Eric.  From a tech side, users do not EVER want to wait 1 minute to trade.

Quote
A straw man is a common form of argument and is an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent's argument, while actually refuting an argument that was not advanced by that opponent.

Ok, so neither one of you actually read my post, then created a comparision I didn't make, as if I did make it, between Expanse and BitShares, then you both address a non-point to my argument as if it's a real point that someone's arguing.

Yep, no straw man there.  ::)

This is another problem.

This forum doesn't want to listen to any real criticism at all.

It seems to ignore most valid criticism and make up some other topic to argue against (that no one else brought up or made a comparison to) that you know you can win and never actually address, much less fix the problem that was brought up.

If you like, please actually read my post and address the actual topic instead of addressing the straw man EB created that you know you can beat.

But per usual, this forum will most likely prefer to attack the person bringing up valid points instead of attacking the issue and fixing the problem. 

Which is a problem in itself that doesn't seem to want to go away.

Quote
It seems like it doesn't really matter how good BitShares is, what features it rolls out, how far ahead of XYZ it is ... the crypto-masses are simply avoiding it and have a predetermined bad impression of the platform.



"Block time!!! We're faster!! LoLZ!!! Summer!!! 3 Years!!! 100%!!! m00n!!! Straw Man!!! We win teh internets!!!"
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Offline fuzzy

Oh shit, we should be more like expanse!

Quick let's raise our blocktime to 60 seconds!!

to the moooon!!!!!

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1173722.msg12356869#msg12356869

a strawman is an argument with no real validity.  Thus the term "strawman" :P

I tend to agree 100% with Eric.  From a tech side, users do not EVER want to wait 1 minute to trade.  However.  I must admit that I doubt ethereum will merge all these clones together.  Instead they will let every single clone help promote them and realize they can own part of all of them. 

If only we had 5-10 top 100 DPOS chains...we wouldn't have to worry about constantly defending ourselves because those who share the tech would take it as an attack on THEM TOO.  So they would protect us even in places where we do not see arguments.  Think of it like fight club...do you want to be a small lonely person complaining at groups or a truly decentralized movement with thousands of people even those at the very top have no clue about?

This is extremely valuable...and THAT is one of the big things missing.  SO I guess my question is: what do WE do about it (other than talk to a discussion board about strawmen and fight amongst ourselves) :P

Water our roots and plant many seeds...
« Last Edit: March 26, 2016, 01:53:54 pm by fuzzy »
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Offline Tuck Fheman

Oh shit, we should be more like expanse!

Oh shit, EB completely missed the point and created a straw man! ;)
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Offline Tuck Fheman

I like to know where you heard this.

I guess what you're asking is, from what information is my opinion based?

If that's what you meant by "where you heard this" ... from discussions with many people, many respected people, some who host shows, some who participate as guest on shows, on forums, in trollboxes, in private chats, in slack channels, in private messages, on blogs and from mathematicians (;)).

That anyone here is doubting the difference in opinions of BitShares inside versus outside this forum is surprising to me personally and perhaps should go on the list of problems or one of the reasons why the problem persist.

The fact that BitShares own subreddit can't get into double digits for most all post is very telling.

Factor in that the 5-9 upvotes that are received most always come from the same people (wild guess) is as well.

How many retweets does a BitShares tweet get and by how many different people? 

The point being, even the core BitShares forum members don't/won't participate, much less outsiders.

If you can't see the issue, you're simply not looking or choosing to ignore it because you simply don't want to face the reality of the ramifications and that's an entirely different issue.

But hey, what do I know?

Summer is coming and everything will be just fine because happy post with few no details say so.

Which brings up another issue.

Have you ever noticed the difference between BitShares hype and Ethereum hype?

Everyone outside of this forum has, which probably explains 2 of those 3 commas. ;)

Edit : Here's some study material, now go find some more on your own and wake up! ;)  ... https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,22064.msg287281.html#msg287281

« Last Edit: March 26, 2016, 08:58:27 am by Tuck Fheman »
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