Author Topic: poll for bitUSD parameter optimization  (Read 10499 times)

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Offline yvv

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BitAsset holders benefit from forced settlement only if the market price goes below the feed price, and the feed price does not drop in next 24 hours. This is imposes a natural limit on volume.

generally speaking, when the price goes to a very low level, the holders can benefit, because at this moment force settlement is a way to  buy big volume at very low price, considering the possibility of price manipulation, this is the very moment that the shorters need more protection.

If the problem is actually not a settlement volume, but possibility of price manipulation, why not to address this problem directly?
 

Offline bitcrab

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BitAsset holders benefit from forced settlement only if the market price goes below the feed price, and the feed price does not drop in next 24 hours. This is imposes a natural limit on volume.

generally speaking, when the price goes to a very low level, the holders can benefit, because at this moment force settlement is a way to  buy big volume at very low price, considering the possibility of price manipulation, this is the very moment that the shorters need more protection.
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Offline yvv

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BitAsset holders benefit from forced settlement only if the market price goes below the feed price, and the feed price does not drop in next 24 hours. This is imposes a natural limit on volume.

Offline bitcrab

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So that would mean If someone settled $635.5 everyone else would be unable to settle their BitUSD for the next hour?
why 0.5% what is wrong with 20%?

I see it as protection for shorters... in all other trading engines, you get margin called and you still have opportunity to increase your collateral.

Another point of view: daily trading volume of bitUSD in last 24 hours was 1900 USD, in this context 635 USD per hour isn't that low number. Still good topic for discussion whether it shouldn't be set to some different value.
yes, the limit is to prevent the holders from doing sudden big volume force settlement and force the shorters out.
actually 0.5% is not so low,  when Argentina people ask me for smartcoin parameters, I suggest them to set a 2% limit, but that is based on misunderstanding, because at that time I think max settle limit is per day!
after bitCNY change, up to now we saw force settlement always finished in a couple of hours under the 0.5% setting.
we can discuss what value is better, but I really think 20% is too high.
maybe this setting is not so friendly to speculators, but in my view, to design a rule, first priority is considering how to make the ecosystem become prosperous healthily, but not speculators' user experience.
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Offline paliboy

So that would mean If someone settled $635.5 everyone else would be unable to settle their BitUSD for the next hour?
why 0.5% what is wrong with 20%?

I see it as protection for shorters... in all other trading engines, you get margin called and you still have opportunity to increase your collateral.

Another point of view: daily trading volume of bitUSD in last 24 hours was 1900 USD, in this context 635 USD per hour isn't that low number. Still good topic for discussion whether it shouldn't be set to some different value.

Offline yvv

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They want to limit the total volume of forced settlements, such that people don't settle all bitAssets in few hours when the market price goes below the feed price. Imo, this is not necessary. It is ok if market decides how much is forced settled.

In fact, limiting forced settlement volume defeats the purpose of forced settlement.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2016, 12:38:32 pm by yvv »

Offline JonnyB

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What is the parameter actually doing?

2.)  reduce max hourly settle volume to 0.5%

So I can maximum settle a total volume of 0.5% per hour? When I want to settle 100 BitUSD, I can only settle 0.5 BitUSD in one hour? That would slow down any black swan event.

What is the reason for 20% right now? What does it protect?

If I understand it correctly, it's percet of whole supply of particular asset. Right now there are 127098 bitUSD in existence so with current rules you can settle 25419.6 bitUSD per hour, with new rules only 635.5 bitUSD per hour. Can anyone confirm?

Is this 635.5 BitUSD per person/account or 635.5 BitUSD per hour in total for everyone?
If it is per account someone could distribute the BitUSD they want to settle across 20 accounts and settle $127098 in an hour.

Can someone confirm?
in total

So that would mean If someone settled $635.5 everyone else would be unable to settle their BitUSD for the next hour?
why 0.5% what is wrong with 20%?
I run the @bitshares twitter handle
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Offline bitcrab

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What is the parameter actually doing?

2.)  reduce max hourly settle volume to 0.5%

So I can maximum settle a total volume of 0.5% per hour? When I want to settle 100 BitUSD, I can only settle 0.5 BitUSD in one hour? That would slow down any black swan event.

What is the reason for 20% right now? What does it protect?

If I understand it correctly, it's percet of whole supply of particular asset. Right now there are 127098 bitUSD in existence so with current rules you can settle 25419.6 bitUSD per hour, with new rules only 635.5 bitUSD per hour. Can anyone confirm?

Is this 635.5 BitUSD per person/account or 635.5 BitUSD per hour in total for everyone?
If it is per account someone could distribute the BitUSD they want to settle across 20 accounts and settle $127098 in an hour.

Can someone confirm?
in total
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Offline JonnyB

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What is the parameter actually doing?

2.)  reduce max hourly settle volume to 0.5%

So I can maximum settle a total volume of 0.5% per hour? When I want to settle 100 BitUSD, I can only settle 0.5 BitUSD in one hour? That would slow down any black swan event.

What is the reason for 20% right now? What does it protect?

If I understand it correctly, it's percet of whole supply of particular asset. Right now there are 127098 bitUSD in existence so with current rules you can settle 25419.6 bitUSD per hour, with new rules only 635.5 bitUSD per hour. Can anyone confirm?

Is this 635.5 BitUSD per person/account or 635.5 BitUSD per hour in total for everyone?
If it is per account someone could distribute the BitUSD they want to settle across 20 accounts and settle $127098 in an hour.

Can someone confirm?
I run the @bitshares twitter handle
twitter.com/bitshares

Offline pc

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If I understand it correctly, it's percet of whole supply of particular asset.
That's correct.
Bitcoin - Perspektive oder Risiko? ISBN 978-3-8442-6568-2 http://bitcoin.quisquis.de

Offline paliboy

What is the parameter actually doing?

2.)  reduce max hourly settle volume to 0.5%

So I can maximum settle a total volume of 0.5% per hour? When I want to settle 100 BitUSD, I can only settle 0.5 BitUSD in one hour? That would slow down any black swan event.

What is the reason for 20% right now? What does it protect?

If I understand it correctly, it's percet of whole supply of particular asset. Right now there are 127098 bitUSD in existence so with current rules you can settle 25419.6 bitUSD per hour, with new rules only 635.5 bitUSD per hour. Can anyone confirm?

Offline Chris4210

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What is the parameter actually doing?

2.)  reduce max hourly settle volume to 0.5%

So I can maximum settle a total volume of 0.5% per hour? When I want to settle 100 BitUSD, I can only settle 0.5 BitUSD in one hour? That would slow down any black swan event.

What is the reason for 20% right now? What does it protect?
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Offline bitcrab

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My issue with this proposal is that it is actually 2 separate proposals.

1.) change force settlement by 1%
2.)  reduce max hourly settle volume to 0.5%

Do not bundle them together as one proposal please.

but we do the change in order to reduce the worry of shorters, and then improve the user experience of the leverage tool, so not only need to set some price offset, but also need to lower the 20% hourly max settlement volume to a reasonable value.

you do not like the 0.5%? you want to propose another value?
I strongly suggest that this time we just adjust the 2 parameters together, as 20% is too big as an hourly settlement limit, then if you believe some other value is better than 0.5%, we can issue another poll to collect the opinion and adjust accordingly.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2016, 08:45:15 am by bitcrab »
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Offline JonnyB

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My issue with this proposal is that it is actually 2 separate proposals.

1.) change force settlement by 1%
2.)  reduce max hourly settle volume to 0.5%

Do not bundle them together as one proposal please.
I run the @bitshares twitter handle
twitter.com/bitshares

Offline bitcrab

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I think we had some really good arguments from both sides in this discussions already. The last time many concerns have been brought up regarding the promise of "at least 100%" back.

I would like to wait a bit longer with a market change with BitUSD too. I expect a different market situation once BlockPay started. We will have a huge liquidity inflow with hundreds of merchants who want to sell their BitAssets again. This will create a full new dynamic for our markets when people want to sell 30k BitUSD on the DEX every day.

What are your thoughts about that?

if you expect 30k bitUSD daily trading volume, there should be at least about 300k bitUSD supply,but where are they?
now the bitUSD supply is only 120k, and inside which about 40k are generated by me.
the change will also help your business, right? we can let the two market change happen together, right?


« Last Edit: August 03, 2016, 07:42:01 am by bitcrab »
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