Author Topic: LTM made up almost 1/3 of DAC revenue  (Read 5385 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline fav

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4278
  • No Pain, No Gain
    • View Profile
    • Follow Me!
  • BitShares: fav
the core point I was trying to make is that we got a very good product in LTM with it's underlying benefits for traders - but it could be even better with more unique features. would increase conversion rate and eventually DAC revenue.

Offline paliboy

why everytime bts is doing fine then people start proposing to change something? bts is constantly increasing in value..apparently the market says clearly not to change anything..let it be..that is my opinion anyway..

I share your concern too. But this is short term thinking. Should we ignore the facts in exchange for short term gain? Eventually current issues could strike us in the future. I think we should discus all issues openly, eventually we could agree to change something that will bring benefit for all.

I agree that it's a short term thinking. BitShares is doing well at the moment because majority of altcoins are doing well. I would rather use http://cryptofresh.com/reserve as our guideline... the value of any business is increasing if it makes more money than it spends. In long term, profitability of a business will translate into high share price or into dividend.

Offline nmywn

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 266
    • View Profile
Quote
So you pay 17,611 BTS and get back 14088 BTS means actual LTM fee is only 3522 BTS. Right?
Yes. Market price would be little above, but this is protected by vesting period. Big players will lower the price eventually.

Offline Geneko

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 187
    • View Profile
why everytime bts is doing fine then people start proposing to change something? bts is constantly increasing in value..apparently the market says clearly not to change anything..let it be..that is my opinion anyway..

I share your concern too. But this is short term thinking. Should we ignore the facts in exchange for short term gain? Eventually current issues could strike us in the future. I think we should discus all issues openly, eventually we could agree to change something that will bring benefit for all.

Offline Geneko

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 187
    • View Profile
2449553.496 BTS to the reserve pool.

How did you come up with this figure:
26% from 47,106,798 is 12,247,767.48

OMG does this mean network gets only 20% of LTM fee payed to this very network? This is insane!! WTF is going on?!
So you pay 17,611 BTS and get back 14088 BTS means actual LTM fee is only 3522 BTS. Right?

Actually, you pay 17,611 and your referrer gets 14088, so yes, network actually gets only 3522. And yes, this is insane.


I cant fckn belive. This looks like multilevel marketing ponzi. The first ones gets mayority of the fees that followers generate. And I was wondering why they call Bitshares Ponzi. Gentlemen from commity its your call!!

mutli level means multi level. there's only one in bitshares. also, if you upgrade to LTM, you do NOT get that money back. use your brain cells please

Thanks, i think @yvv already improved work of my brain cells. ;)

Offline fav

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4278
  • No Pain, No Gain
    • View Profile
    • Follow Me!
  • BitShares: fav
2449553.496 BTS to the reserve pool.

How did you come up with this figure:
26% from 47,106,798 is 12,247,767.48

OMG does this mean network gets only 20% of LTM fee payed to this very network? This is insane!! WTF is going on?!
So you pay 17,611 BTS and get back 14088 BTS means actual LTM fee is only 3522 BTS. Right?

Actually, you pay 17,611 and your referrer gets 14088, so yes, network actually gets only 3522. And yes, this is insane.


I cant fckn belive. This looks like multilevel marketing ponzi. The first ones gets mayority of the fees that followers generate. And I was wondering why they call Bitshares Ponzi. Gentlemen from commity its your call!!

mutli level means multi level. there's only one in bitshares. also, if you upgrade to LTM, you do NOT get that money back. use your brain cells please

Offline fav

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4278
  • No Pain, No Gain
    • View Profile
    • Follow Me!
  • BitShares: fav
2449553.496 BTS to the reserve pool.

How did you come up with this figure:
26% from 47,106,798 is 12,247,767.48

OMG does this mean network gets only 20% of LTM fee payed to this very network? This is insane!! WTF is going on?!
So you pay 17,611 BTS and get back 14088 BTS means actual LTM fee is only 3522 BTS. Right?

it's 20% of 12m - the network fee

Offline mf-tzo

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1725
    • View Profile
why everytime bts is doing fine then people start proposing to change something? bts is constantly increasing in value..apparently the market says clearly not to change anything..let it be..that is my opinion anyway..

Offline Geneko

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 187
    • View Profile

There seems to be no shortage of ideas on how to distribute funds. Getting consensus on which to implement AND finding devs interested and competent enough to create a proposal and do the work are as scarce as grandma day traders in the crypto space. This is just talk, churning the waters, getting nowhere.

What will bring consensus and workers? When I see answers to that I'll begin to think progress is being made. Until then, not so much.

It doesnt need to be done. What is needed is already coded in Bitshares platform.

Use your Vote!!

First to say I am all against the unilateral action. Community should reach consensus. But we are not helpless neither.
If needed, we should declare our declaration of independence.

I may upgrade to LTM but doesn't find my self appropriate from various reasons, basically trust related for wider community.
Any way, one of hero members including @Thom might take the roll. Candidate for change, collect votes as a Proxy, and vote out every commity member that doesn't support change. Lets show the real power of Bitshares! Eventually we could reach consensus.

Everything that needs to be done is:
- change the fee structure ( in order to become sustainable)
- include Peerplays dividend model (since code is free, average worker for implementation would be needed)

How to change fee structure?

- LTM fees goes to the network, period.
- Referrer and the network split all fees 50:50, period. (all fees, core token, MPAs, UIAs)

Lets vote in commity that could implement this.
Its that simple.

Offline Geneko

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 187
    • View Profile

Not a ponzi, which cascade with no limit. The BitShares referrals are limited to receive proceeds from only 1 level.

Ahh no, this cascade is fixed to only one level.
Every referrer gets 80% of all fees including LTM fee from referee. Now when referee becomes referrer he gets a cut form new referee
and the fees he pays goes to his referrer, and same goes for his referrer, ans same for his referrer, and same .....
I agree, this doesn't look like classic Ponzi. It has some innovative approach.

If BitShares 2.0 were received the same way Steem and almost every shitcoin project is upon launch, and the pumpers did their pumping thing on Oct. 15, 2015, people wouldn't be thinking about the 20% cut the network gets as insufficient, they would be trying to enlist their friends and getting that 80% referral reward and complaining 20% is way too much.

Alas, nothing new under the sun, people jump to conclusions and forget history all the time. 

Please be more specific. I don't understand the point of this.

Again this is not trivial question. We are talking here about long term stability, and more important basic value proposition of Bitshares as a platform.
People are planing marketing campaign and doesn't realize that they didn't answer basic question:

What is Bitshares?
Our web cite headline says:
BitShares - Your share in the Decentralized Exchange

I would say: Could you be more specific? Please define the word SHARE.
Does my share related to my share of ownership and share of dividend?
or
My share is related to the ones I bring to the platform as referrer.
or ..
My share is related to income from the network if I am talented and manage to find the way

I advise marketing guys first find the answer to above questions. And yes when you find out please educate us. We don't know either.
 
Try to think of Bitshares as your own business. Would you run it like it is run now?

Offline Thom

I understand the motivation for the LTM fees structure but never liked the breakdown. Here is an idea.

10%/40%/50%  All Referrers(weighted)/LTM/network

There seems to be no shortage of ideas on how to distribute funds. Getting consensus on which to implement AND finding devs interested and competent enough to create a proposal and do the work are as scarce as grandma day traders in the crypto space. This is just talk, churning the waters, getting nowhere.

What will bring consensus and workers? When I see answers to that I'll begin to think progress is being made. Until then, not so much.
Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere - MLK |  Verbaltech2 Witness Reports: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,23902.0.html

Offline Pheonike

I understand the motivation for the LTM fees structure but never liked the breakdown. Here is an idea.

10%/40%/50%  All Referrers(weighted)/LTM/network

Offline Thom


I cant fckn belive. This looks like multilevel marketing ponzi.

Not a ponzi, which cascade with no limit. The BitShares referrals are limited to receive proceeds from only 1 level.

If BitShares 2.0 were received the same way Steem and almost every shitcoin project is upon launch, and the pumpers did their pumping thing on Oct. 15, 2015, people wouldn't be thinking about the 20% cut the network gets as insufficient, they would be trying to enlist their friends and getting that 80% referral reward and complaining 20% is way too much.

Alas, nothing new under the sun, people jump to conclusions and forget history all the time. 
Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere - MLK |  Verbaltech2 Witness Reports: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,23902.0.html

Offline Geneko

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 187
    • View Profile
2449553.496 BTS to the reserve pool.

How did you come up with this figure:
26% from 47,106,798 is 12,247,767.48

OMG does this mean network gets only 20% of LTM fee payed to this very network? This is insane!! WTF is going on?!
So you pay 17,611 BTS and get back 14088 BTS means actual LTM fee is only 3522 BTS. Right?

Actually, you pay 17,611 and your referrer gets 14088, so yes, network actually gets only 3522. And yes, this is insane.


I cant fckn belive. This looks like multilevel marketing ponzi. The first ones gets mayority of the fees that followers generate. And I was wondering why they call Bitshares Ponzi. Gentlemen from commity its your call!!

Offline yvv

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1186
    • View Profile
2449553.496 BTS to the reserve pool.

How did you come up with this figure:
26% from 47,106,798 is 12,247,767.48

OMG does this mean network gets only 20% of LTM fee payed to this very network? This is insane!! WTF is going on?!
So you pay 17,611 BTS and get back 14088 BTS means actual LTM fee is only 3522 BTS. Right?

Actually, you pay 17,611 and your referrer gets 14088, so yes, network actually gets only 3522. And yes, this is insane.