Author Topic: plan to raise the bitCNY force settlement offset to 5%  (Read 36722 times)

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Offline dirnet

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Seriously...Can we concentrate on important issues? Where are these bitshares spokespersons now??What are they doing??

Offline mf-tzo

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@fav  I don't understand why you attack @bitcrab... You do realize that the guy has millions of bitshares in collateral and helps creating millions in bitassets right? I mean no matter what is the price of bts he stills holds the collateral even if he gets margin called when the bts was falling..Now he is creating GDEX and you see this as something bad?? Give him a break..

Secondly I would really like to know also what is happening with Polo and even if many people are asking what is happening no one answers.. This is much more important than raising by 5% the bitcny force settlement. If raising the bitcny force settlement doesn't work, we can and will change it back to where it was. If polo delists bts like bittrex did there will be no recovery of the price after that...

Seriously...Can we concentrate on important issues? Where are these bitshares spokespersons now??What are they doing??

binggo

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what a strange coincidence, isn't it
We want to know who and when to fix the wrong feed price, how to solove the poloniex problem?!
It seems no one care these problems and care other things?! what a strange thing, isn't it? FORUM ADMINISTRATOR?!  Which line do you stand?!

Offline fav

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what a strange coincidence, isn't it

binggo

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I think our bitCNY problem is caused by people in China moving from CNY into (other) cryptos, using bitCNY and BTS as intermediates. I. e. CNY -> (via magicwallet) -> bitCNY -> (via forced settlement) -> BTS -> BTC (or other cryptos).


Exactly, this is pretty evident. They need market makers to create a flow of money in opposite direction to fix this problem.

you always avoid to mention the wrong feed price from poloniex, just want the market makers to do something, i dont know why?!
What BTS is?!
ls there anything wrong people moving CNY into other cryptos and use BITCNY and BTS as intermediates?
People chose the market, not the market chose people.
The force settlement make the market to balance, but the wrong feed price make the force settlement to the wrong direction, do you think how much time needed to fix the wrong feed price?! do you have the timeline? one day,one week,one month or one year?
Do you think the malicious force settlement is good for the market?! the wrong feed price not need to be fixed?
or  you think the market wiill fix the problem itself?
Economic liberalism need a fair market, not a malicious market.
When the Satan come, we cant just say "GOD,HELP ME,GOD WILL SAVE US!", we need help ourself.
Do somthing, not just talk.
Maybe 5% is not the best idea, but some problems must fix now, not wait somebody to fix it at a long long long time, or wait the BTS DEX dieing slowly!
« Last Edit: November 16, 2017, 01:49:31 pm by binggo »

Offline yvv

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I think our bitCNY problem is caused by people in China moving from CNY into (other) cryptos, using bitCNY and BTS as intermediates. I. e. CNY -> (via magicwallet) -> bitCNY -> (via forced settlement) -> BTS -> BTC (or other cryptos).


Exactly, this is pretty evident. They need market makers to create a flow of money in opposite direction to fix this problem.

Offline abit

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I think our bitCNY problem is caused by people in China moving from CNY into (other) cryptos, using bitCNY and BTS as intermediates. I. e. CNY -> (via magicwallet) -> bitCNY -> (via forced settlement) -> BTS -> BTC (or other cryptos).

That would explain why CNY:bitCNY is trading above the peg, while at the same time BTS:bitCNY is trading below - if there was real demand for bitCNY, people would buy it on the DEX. In reality, people are dumping bitCNY for BTS either on the DEX or via forced settlement.
I think changing the settlement offset will not change this situation - it would only continue on a different level. (It seems the proposal has been accepted by now - we will see if it helps.)

BTS has been in an uptrend during the past couple of days. It is normal that during a BTS uptrend bitassets trade below the peg, because the settlement delay means that the bitasset is actually pegged to the expected price one day in the future.

Some people are arguing that the price feed is off, because the indirect price CNY->bitCNY->BTS doesn't match the feed price. I think that argument is invalid because of the abovementioned dependency between the bitCNY->BTS price as seen on the DEX and the feed price. The feed price must not be calculated as a function of the internal trade price, because that would create a feedback loop, and feedback loops are inherently unstable.​
I've thought of this as a possible factor. That said, some people are using BTS as an indirect fiat ramp. They buy BTS with fiat in the Dex, then dump BTS for BTC or other crypto currencies in other exchanges. Since Poloniex disabled BTS withdrawal, people who bought cheap BTS there can not sell in Dex for a profit, the arbitrage loop now is not closed. That's why there is disparity.
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Offline pc

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I think our bitCNY problem is caused by people in China moving from CNY into (other) cryptos, using bitCNY and BTS as intermediates. I. e. CNY -> (via magicwallet) -> bitCNY -> (via forced settlement) -> BTS -> BTC (or other cryptos).

That would explain why CNY:bitCNY is trading above the peg, while at the same time BTS:bitCNY is trading below - if there was real demand for bitCNY, people would buy it on the DEX. In reality, people are dumping bitCNY for BTS either on the DEX or via forced settlement.
I think changing the settlement offset will not change this situation - it would only continue on a different level. (It seems the proposal has been accepted by now - we will see if it helps.)

BTS has been in an uptrend during the past couple of days. It is normal that during a BTS uptrend bitassets trade below the peg, because the settlement delay means that the bitasset is actually pegged to the expected price one day in the future.

Some people are arguing that the price feed is off, because the indirect price CNY->bitCNY->BTS doesn't match the feed price. I think that argument is invalid because of the abovementioned dependency between the bitCNY->BTS price as seen on the DEX and the feed price. The feed price must not be calculated as a function of the internal trade price, because that would create a feedback loop, and feedback loops are inherently unstable.​
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Offline Crypto Kong

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Hopefully we can be kept updated here on how this change pans out.


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Offline abit

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I am curious how witnesses get their feeds... The only centralized exchange trading bts is poloniex and  AEX.
Normally the feed should be according to the weighted volume of each exchange including the internal DEX trading. I hope you do this.

Now that Poloniex has issues with bts withdrawals and deposits I believe feed SHOULD NOT take into account at all the price from Poloniex until the issue is resolved. If you guys take feeds from Polo now then this is extremely dangerous!!!

I can not comment on AEX yet..

Feed should be endogenous and not exogenous now until polo fix its problems and should be based from the internal DEX trading imho..

In regards to this proposal I have not decided if it should have been approved but my initial thought says that force settlement should not have been raised by 5% and instead the feed should have been adjusted accordingly..

Finally, does anyone has an update of what is the status with Polo and when the issue is expected to be resolved?


Not only  aex,but  also  zb.com,it's  former  Chbtc.com.Zb.com  is  leading  all  the market in  BTS  price because it  keeps   RMB   deposit  channel in  a  delicate way.There are  also  some small exchanges like coinegg.com(former jubi.com) and  xbrick.io (former  19800.com) which have a  place to  trade  BTSs.
Thanks.
coinegg seems working and has API, but the trading volume is low right now.
xbrick hasn't started trading?
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Offline guan1990

I am curious how witnesses get their feeds... The only centralized exchange trading bts is poloniex and  AEX.
Normally the feed should be according to the weighted volume of each exchange including the internal DEX trading. I hope you do this.

Now that Poloniex has issues with bts withdrawals and deposits I believe feed SHOULD NOT take into account at all the price from Poloniex until the issue is resolved. If you guys take feeds from Polo now then this is extremely dangerous!!!

I can not comment on AEX yet..

Feed should be endogenous and not exogenous now until polo fix its problems and should be based from the internal DEX trading imho..

In regards to this proposal I have not decided if it should have been approved but my initial thought says that force settlement should not have been raised by 5% and instead the feed should have been adjusted accordingly..

Finally, does anyone has an update of what is the status with Polo and when the issue is expected to be resolved?


Not only  aex,but  also  zb.com,it's  former  Chbtc.com.Zb.com  is  leading  all  the market in  BTS  price because it  keeps   RMB   deposit  channel in  a  delicate way.There are  also  some small exchanges like coinegg.com(former jubi.com) and  xbrick.io (former  19800.com) which have a  place to  trade  BTSs.

Offline abit

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It's really not easy to always find a "correct" price.

While Poloniex disabled BTS deposit/withdrawal, it still has the biggest trading volume. I guess many traders there just don't care about deposit/withdrawal. Other exchanges which have listed BTS, except the DEX it self, are either unable to get data or has too low influence:

* AEX.com: witnesses were are able to fetch price data. However, earlier today aex.com added a javascript redirection to it's API, now even coinmarketcap.com is unable to fetch price from it, I guess witnesses are unable to get their data as well (at least I am). Due to the unstable API, it's not guaranteed that we can always get the data.
* EXX.com: no public API to get price data so far. Low volume.
* LBANK.info: the API works, but the market depth is very thin, volume is apparently manipulated.
* Bitcoin Indonesia (bitcoin.co.id): low volume.
* Livecoin.net: low volume.

In the meanwhile, as of writing, BTC price trading in BTS:OPEN.BTC pair is even lower than Poloniex.

Markets with low volume or low depth are easier to be manipulated.

//Update: I forgot zb.com. will update about the status soon.

//Update 2: API of zb.com is working, their have BTS/USDT and BTS/BTC markets, as of writing the USDT market has better volume. However, I heard it's unable to withdraw USDT right now, so the price is not as reliable as well.

//Update 3:
coinegg.com: is live and the API is working, but volume is low.
xbrick.io: looks like the markets are not live yet.

//Update 4: aex API seems recovered.

//Update 5: another exchange, big.one, low volume
« Last Edit: November 15, 2017, 06:39:06 pm by abit »
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binggo

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I am curious how witnesses get their feeds... The only centralized exchange trading bts is poloniex and  AEX.
Normally the feed should be according to the weighted volume of each exchange including the internal DEX trading. I hope you do this.

Now that Poloniex has issues with bts withdrawals and deposits I believe feed SHOULD NOT take into account at all the price from Poloniex until the issue is resolved. If you guys take feeds from Polo now then this is extremely dangerous!!!

I can not comment on AEX yet..

Feed should be endogenous and not exogenous now until polo fix its problems and should be based from the internal DEX trading imho..

In regards to this proposal I have not decided if it should have been approved but my initial thought says that force settlement should not have been raised by 5% and instead the feed should have been adjusted accordingly..

Finally, does anyone has an update of what is the status with Polo and when the issue is expected to be resolved?

5% is only for BITCNY, and a temporary expedient.
Some problems maybe solved in one week, one month or one year, no one knows.
There have an opportunity for BTS in China, we must catch the opportunity in the hand asap,
but the internal DEX (BITCNY) was harming by the wrong feed price(Poloniex), we must do somthing to stop this situation, not only for BITCNY, but for the BTS.
In the future, i belive we will find a better way to solve this problem.

Offline mf-tzo

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I am curious how witnesses get their feeds... The only centralized exchange trading bts is poloniex and  AEX.
Normally the feed should be according to the weighted volume of each exchange including the internal DEX trading. I hope you do this.

Now that Poloniex has issues with bts withdrawals and deposits I believe feed SHOULD NOT take into account at all the price from Poloniex until the issue is resolved. If you guys take feeds from Polo now then this is extremely dangerous!!!

I can not comment on AEX yet..

Feed should be endogenous and not exogenous now until polo fix its problems and should be based from the internal DEX trading imho..

In regards to this proposal I have not decided if it should have been approved but my initial thought says that force settlement should not have been raised by 5% and instead the feed should have been adjusted accordingly..

Finally, does anyone has an update of what is the status with Polo and when the issue is expected to be resolved?
 

binggo

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Argument is good, but please focuse the problem,  the BTS in Poloniex was a "Stand-alone game" now, BTS can't Deposit and Withdraw for days, the feed price from the Poloniex has no any reference value.

So, we have four solutions: 
1. Cotanct with the Poloniex to open Deposit and Withdraw  BTS asap;
2. Kick out the Poloniex from the feed price asap;
3. Raise the bitCNY force settlement offset to 5% for now;
4. Do nothing on the sidelines, seeing the BTS to die slowly.

Which you can do? to do it now.

only reasonable solution is asking witnesses to fix their feeds. that's what they get paid for


please read my post on  38# to  see  if witnesses  can do it.It's  profitable by harming  the  CNY market  through   setting   low feeding  prices .We  should  admit that  the Poloniex price is not  real  market demand price(I  call BTSs which can be circulated  are True BTSs and polo's BTSs are fake BTSs).The  scene  is much  alike   some  institutions  removed  Okcoin's BTC price in the BTC  index when  the  CN  gov.  forced  okcoin to  forbidden  the withdraw of BTCs.

Yes, we need someone to do these, but no one do, only argument, not give a solution. This is not good for bts.
we need talk, think , solve these problems, make the BTS more strong, more powerful, more more influential in the world.
BM have left BTS, but the soul of the bts can't vanish.
We need to read again what BM said:" WHAT BTS IS?"