Author Topic: suggestion for an offical market value management infrastructure  (Read 18551 times)

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Offline vegolino

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I had simple plan when I started margin trading, in case of margin call I could always sell some of my other crypto and buy bitUSD and repay the debt.
What I didn't realise that when it came to it that nobody wanted to sell their bitUSD in the BTS falling market.

Well it is clear enough to me that at present smart-coins are not working as intended  due to low liquidity as nobody wishes to create/sell  new ones in falling market.
I don't know if bitcrab proposal will fix it but it won't cause any harm so we should try it unless someone else comes with better proposal.
Thanks to bitcrab for putting proposal and starting convo as it was needed.

Kind Regards
aloha

Offline Victor118

 
Basically the problem is that the supply of smart assets does not depend on the demand, it depends on the borrowers.
Borrowers want to make profit, they are not interested in the total demand of smart assets, moreover to my knowledge there is no chart of the evolution of the demand for bitCNY for example?

The proposal is interesting, I support it.
But I wonder if it's enough.
At present, only DEX users create bitCny or BitUSD, besides the more these assets will be used outside the DEX, the more it will be necessary to create, asking DEX users to cover this demand is not realistic
I think an exchange like AEX should also offer the possibility to its users to short bitCNY.
I don't know if it's possible, but imagine a user-friendly widget for an exchange or any other loan service that would like to use Bitshares.
Obviously the possibility of putting Bitcoin or other cryptocurrencies as collateral would greatly assist in the massive adoption of Bitshares decentralized loan mechanism
In conclusion, we need more borrowers, I think we have to get them outside the DEX.
DEX users can cover internal demand but not demand from anywhere in the world.

Offline Bangzi

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Bitshares DEX - Over 1000 Coins, Buy, Sell, Transfer & List Any Coins |Free Signup Today: https://wallet.bitshares.org/?r=bangzi

Offline szs484

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我曾经建议提供阶梯抵押的功能
现在我仍然坚持这个提议
可作为控制风险的措施之一
而且我这个提议是完全市场化的
也交给用户自己选择的风险管控
功能详细介绍,见此贴:
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=25557.0;topicseen.

Offline clockwork

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supported at a fee of 0.1% and using committee-trade for execution

Offline bitcrab

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I agree with the BTS market mangement.

But I don't agree with below point of view:
-------
3. Borrow bitCNY/bitUSD by putting the bought BTS into collateral with high collateral ratio and continue to buy in BTS.
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I think some of bitCNY/bitUSD should be the fee when use them to Buy other coins but these BTS should not be COLLATERAL to borrow bitCNY/bitUSD.
Then there will be no risk for this account pool.
These BTS bought by fees should be locked for long time or forever, or use this as bonus for some development projects and projects like billionare project etc.

我主要想表达的是bitCNY/bitUSD可以作为交易费用,但是费用池中买回BTS不应该继续作为抵押。使得这个费用池出现任何风险都是不应该的。
而买回的BTS可以作为长期锁仓,或做长远项目费用拨备或支持类似billionare计划。
I don't agree with you.
with enough higher collateral ratio(at least 3) the bought BTS can be put into collateral for borrowing bitCNY/bitUSD. the worst result is that the debt position is margin called and these BTS is selled out in a lower price, no further risks.
just locking BTS there is a waste of resource, with collateral it can add more power to the ecosystem.


Email:bitcrab@qq.com

Offline zhaomu

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Totally agree and support this idea. It it time to make a change and make bitshares great again. Wish this proposal can be approved and implemented ASAP.

Offline spiritabsolute

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I agree. Obviously the current system does not work.

Offline Brekyrself

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This proposal would cover all current BitAssets or just CNY & USD?

apply to CNY and USD at first, do not want to cover other smartcoins currently as they have very low trading volumes.

Would it not make sense to cover all markets to bootstrap liquidity?

Offline biotwang

I agree with the BTS market mangement.

But I don't agree with below point of view:
-------
3. Borrow bitCNY/bitUSD by putting the bought BTS into collateral with high collateral ratio and continue to buy in BTS.
-------
I think some of bitCNY/bitUSD should be the fee when use them to Buy other coins but these BTS should not be COLLATERAL to borrow bitCNY/bitUSD.
Then there will be no risk for this account pool.
These BTS bought by fees should be locked for long time or forever, or use this as bonus for some development projects and projects like billionare project etc.

我主要想表达的是bitCNY/bitUSD可以作为交易费用,但是费用池中买回BTS不应该继续作为抵押。使得这个费用池出现任何风险都是不应该的。
而买回的BTS可以作为长期锁仓,或做长远项目费用拨备或支持类似billionare计划。
« Last Edit: March 09, 2018, 05:57:58 am by biotwang »

Offline bitcrab

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This proposal would cover all current BitAssets or just CNY & USD?

apply to CNY and USD at first, do not want to cover other smartcoins currently as they have very low trading volumes.
Email:bitcrab@qq.com

Offline Brekyrself

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This proposal would cover all current BitAssets or just CNY & USD?

Offline bitcrab

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Generally speaking, charging fees on bitCNY and etc is doable.

However, I don't think those fees would be enough to do effective "market value management".

Say, on average 10M CNY volume a day, and a fee rate at 0.05%, means 5K CNY of income per day. In order to have a working "market value management", I guess we need billions of CNY.

Another possible con:
* charging fees introduces friction, thus may reduce activity, thus may harm reputation of BitShares and price of BTS token.

By the way, why not increase basic network fees? The fees were reduced when BTS is 6CNY each, now BTS is around 1CNY each.

0.05% is really low, if most members from the community agree, I have no problem to set the fee rate to 0.1%.

we need billions of bitCNY supply, but I don't think we need so much just for market value management, after the operation begin, it will not only create purchasing power for BTS, but also change the expectation of traders, leverage effect here, I believe even 10k bitCNY/day will make sense.

I think we can do this first, if necessary, we can also modify the fee schedule later, or even seek more ways to optimize the liquidity.

I don't think such a fee rate friction will reduce the trading activity greatly, central exchanges like poloniex, Bitfinex have higher fee rate but still have big trading volume.


« Last Edit: March 09, 2018, 03:35:53 am by bitcrab »
Email:bitcrab@qq.com

Offline bitcrab

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Broadly speaking, I support the concept of a Committee controlled market bot. Owner set to Committee is required. I have some reservations about Active set to M/N accounts.

Consider the following implementation concepts (for each SmartCoin):
1. committee.smartcoin: Owner, Active set to Committee
2. Each Committee member runs (to-be developed) code locally that:
3. --Calculates which Committee Member is the 'Market Maker Proposer' (highest votes, next highest if Proposal delay exceeds threshold below)
4. --Observes SmarCoin market:
5. ----Market Maker Proposer (MMP) evaluates SmartCoin market conditions for Triggers (OP examples):
6. ----MMP broadcasts Proposed Transaction containing market actions based on Triggers
7. ----Observes Proposed Transactions:
8. ------Evaluates Triggers
9. --------If TRUE: Signs Proposed Transaction
10. The automated decentralized bot should execute the intended market actions using a dynamic set of Committee authorities.
 
The above rough concept is similar to a Block Producer (Witness) providing Price Feed data by observing and having authority to sign their findings. However, the decentralized bot above requires observations from multiple sources to form the authority to perform the market actions.

interesting concept, however, I believe it will cost some time for development and test before getting reliable bot, we cannot wait while seeing the BTS price go down, we can start from manual operation and migrate to bot while it is available.

actually there is already a committee controlled account committee-trade which has a 3/4 multisig active key, this account do a lot trading in the past and works well.

if we need some enhanced setting for security, I think one choice is to block the committee-cnymaker account when too much(>10M?) BTS accumulate in it by setting both owner key and active key to null-account. and then create a new account to trade continully.



Email:bitcrab@qq.com

Offline sgsbtstwo

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agree  with  abit.

the  bitcny tx  fee  is too  small  to  make difference.

it  is  helpful but  not enough.

maybe we can add  btc or eth as  collateral
to generate stable coin.