Author Topic: Binance Dexathon - Discussion  (Read 8170 times)

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Offline Emma Lee

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Then we'll gain good PR and their future efforts will help the whole ecosystem, for example we can back-port fixes/features from them.

Offline sschiessl

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No news yet.

The initial dexathon description is basically a perfect match for Bitshares. We just have to wait.

Offline zapata42

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Any news?

For your information, the CEO talk about his expectations on this week epicenter.tv podcast: https://epicenter.tv/episode/235/

It seems they want to build something really similar to Bitshares (DAC included).
For them performances and liquidity are the highest priority.
They also say they will promote DEX in general, and try to bring liquidity.

Offline R

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Have you heard anything back from them regarding your application?

We talked about this during today's Bitshares hangout BTW!

Offline sschiessl

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All the feedback is appreciated. It was collected and summarized into the application!

https://steemit.com/blockchain/@bitshares.fdn/bbf-applies-for-dexathon

Now we wait and see what Binance says.

Offline Ravid

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Good discussion!
Keep it going


I agree with whats been said here. Big question is, does binance want a 'decenzralized exchange' or an 'autonomous execution of trades'.


Why don't we actually ask them?

Someone with enough diplomatic/technical skills could contact them and ask for additional information about their requirements and where do they aim.

Offline xeroc

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Good discussion!
Keep it going


I agree with whats been said here. Big question is, does binance want a 'decenzralized exchange' or an 'autonomous execution of trades'.

Offline ripplexiaoshan

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Maybe they will learn from cybex---a fork of bitshares but with centralized control of everything. .Actually what their users need most is the transparency of transaction data, instead of decentralized control of system.
However, I doubt binance will start this project very soon, because they are very happy earning money with the current platform. They only want to have a backup, considering the regulation and the trend of decentralization.
BTS committee member:jademont

Offline zapata42

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However, I insist that there is NO way they do it without complete control over the parameters (e.g. network transaction fee etc.) which means over 51% committee.

At least if I was in their shoes, there is no way I'd embark on such a massive business venture, change my business model and move my operations to an exchange where I don't control the actual fees.

Sure 51% of the commitee is very decentralized ;-)
Good luck to bring other business on top of your platform!

What is the definition of a Decentralized Exchanche for Binance?

I'm guessing with regards to servers, order matching etc Just generally having the entire system work p2p.

Blockchain parameters are always handled by the developers in other platforms..

I think BTS might be a step too far for them :D

To get a p2p platform you need to give an incentive to blockproducers. So they will pay for the infrastructure, and it should be more expensive than sharing this cost with other business as on Bitshares.

Also if block producers start to disagree with the centralized decision on fees, they will start to hard fork. This situation is more likely as there is no transparent decrentralized governance.

They say they want to build a community, this comes with some tradeoff...

The cashflow mecanism with the asset fee / transaction fee separation, the referral/referee program, and all are made to build a business on top on the public network. Many solutions could be found to reach an agreement. This negotiation should happen, and we should learn from the output.



Offline clockwork

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However, I insist that there is NO way they do it without complete control over the parameters (e.g. network transaction fee etc.) which means over 51% committee.

At least if I was in their shoes, there is no way I'd embark on such a massive business venture, change my business model and move my operations to an exchange where I don't control the actual fees.

Sure 51% of the commitee is very decentralized ;-)
Good luck to bring other business on top of your platform!

What is the definition of a Decentralized Exchanche for Binance?

I'm guessing with regards to servers, order matching etc Just generally having the entire system work p2p.

Blockchain parameters are always handled by the developers in other platforms..

I think BTS might be a step too far for them :D

Offline zapata42

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However, I insist that there is NO way they do it without complete control over the parameters (e.g. network transaction fee etc.) which means over 51% committee.

At least if I was in their shoes, there is no way I'd embark on such a massive business venture, change my business model and move my operations to an exchange where I don't control the actual fees.

Sure 51% of the commitee is very decentralized ;-)
Good luck to bring other business on top of your platform!

What is the definition of a Decentralized Exchanche for Binance?

Offline clockwork

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Assuming that the BBF applied for that hackathon, what reasons would there be for Binance to
not fork the BitShares Code and instead use the existing blockchain?

* forking is not trivial
* skilled and experienced (!) developers are hard to find
* we have an existing ecosystem (community, users) that can't be forked so easily
* BTS already has value, development of codebase basically pays for itself

IMO we have much to gain and little to lose from applying.

I completely agree with you.

I would add / explicit some points:

  - Bootstrapping a truly decentralized / resilient community is hard and expensive (marketing to find witnesses, organize the governance, build trust...)
  - Building a decentralized exchange when you are a centralized company has no meaning (even more if you are the unique gateway). They will waste a lot of time and effort to convince others to join. If decentralization really matters to them, it is smarter to join Bitshares platform.
  - They will benefit of our worldwide decentralized infrastructure for free.
  - They get closed source third party applications like cryptofresh, bts.ai, ... for free
  - They will benefit of existing and future liquidity like bitspark, reserve fund, and other gateway bring
  - They will be able to list to existing smart assets (bitXXX, hero, Hertz, bittwenty/bittwentix, nasdaq,...) and attract their volume for free
  - They will benefit directly from the Bitshares (DAC/Financial Platform) marketing effort, and indirectly from other business marketing.
  - Development effort could become a revenue instead of a cost! (= worker proposal).
  - The development effort and cost is mutualized with all the others participants.
  - Building open source / decentralized software is really different than doing a closed source centralized software, you need the (really rare) appropriate skills and experience on open source development, blockchain/event based systems and decentralization.
  - By applying Bitshares community show their will to accept them in the community. It is not a wise move to fork a project that share the same goal as you and propose collabration, you fork because you have different ideas.
  - They should worry about getting more time to focus on AML / KYC / tax compliance, not rebuilding what already exists.
  - They already have the bridge between the dex and their cex

I think we should show them how they could setup their BNB token with the example of cyrptobridge or obits.
It can also be the opportunity to write an open source public example on how to build a deposit/withdraw gateway.

Imho getting a big influence is currently not so costly. You don't want to own too much anyway (this will kill the decentralized aspect). 30% should be the high cap. If you are active and big, many poeple will follow you (as a proxy, or vote in your direction). So 200M BTS should be enough. You should be able to get them with 30M-40M dollars max in current market conditions, which is nothing for a serious company.

I think blockchain industry is currently too fragmented, the future will be made of merges and acquisitions not forks. It is just a matter of time to see massive takeover bids on Bitshares.

I think we should apply for the contest. Bitshares as a financial platform have been made exaclty for that.  If we don't win we should learn why and fix the issue.
Maybe it worth a community vote to see if everyone agree we should make some efforts on that direction, as this could have a major impact for the users, but also for existing business. I'm very curius to know the position of existing gateways on the topic...

Do we know why they state "Currently, decentralized exchanges are inefficient and difficult to operate for the average user."? What is their level of knowledge on Bitshares? I hope they did some research before starting this kind of project...

Once again, I agree with all the pros and the reasoning why Binance could do this.

However, I insist that there is NO way they do it without complete control over the parameters (e.g. network transaction fee etc.) which means over 51% committee.

At least if I was in their shoes, there is no way I'd embark on such a massive business venture, change my business model and move my operations to an exchange where I don't control the actual fees.


Offline zapata42

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Assuming that the BBF applied for that hackathon, what reasons would there be for Binance to
not fork the BitShares Code and instead use the existing blockchain?

* forking is not trivial
* skilled and experienced (!) developers are hard to find
* we have an existing ecosystem (community, users) that can't be forked so easily
* BTS already has value, development of codebase basically pays for itself

IMO we have much to gain and little to lose from applying.

I completely agree with you.

I would add / explicit some points:

  - Bootstrapping a truly decentralized / resilient community is hard and expensive (marketing to find witnesses, organize the governance, build trust...)
  - Building a decentralized exchange when you are a centralized company has no meaning (even more if you are the unique gateway). They will waste a lot of time and effort to convince others to join. If decentralization really matters to them, it is smarter to join Bitshares platform.
  - They will benefit of our worldwide decentralized infrastructure for free.
  - They get closed source third party applications like cryptofresh, bts.ai, ... for free
  - They will benefit of existing and future liquidity like bitspark, reserve fund, and other gateway bring
  - They will be able to list to existing smart assets (bitXXX, hero, Hertz, bittwenty/bittwentix, nasdaq,...) and attract their volume for free
  - They will benefit directly from the Bitshares (DAC/Financial Platform) marketing effort, and indirectly from other business marketing.
  - Development effort could become a revenue instead of a cost! (= worker proposal).
  - The development effort and cost is mutualized with all the others participants.
  - Building open source / decentralized software is really different than doing a closed source centralized software, you need the (really rare) appropriate skills and experience on open source development, blockchain/event based systems and decentralization.
  - By applying Bitshares community show their will to accept them in the community. It is not a wise move to fork a project that share the same goal as you and propose collabration, you fork because you have different ideas.
  - They should worry about getting more time to focus on AML / KYC / tax compliance, not rebuilding what already exists.
  - They already have the bridge between the dex and their cex

I think we should show them how they could setup their BNB token with the example of cyrptobridge or obits.
It can also be the opportunity to write an open source public example on how to build a deposit/withdraw gateway.

Imho getting a big influence is currently not so costly. You don't want to own too much anyway (this will kill the decentralized aspect). 30% should be the high cap. If you are active and big, many poeple will follow you (as a proxy, or vote in your direction). So 200M BTS should be enough. You should be able to get them with 30M-40M dollars max in current market conditions, which is nothing for a serious company.

I think blockchain industry is currently too fragmented, the future will be made of merges and acquisitions not forks. It is just a matter of time to see massive takeover bids on Bitshares.

I think we should apply for the contest. Bitshares as a financial platform have been made exaclty for that.  If we don't win we should learn why and fix the issue.
Maybe it worth a community vote to see if everyone agree we should make some efforts on that direction, as this could have a major impact for the users, but also for existing business. I'm very curius to know the position of existing gateways on the topic...

Do we know why they state "Currently, decentralized exchanges are inefficient and difficult to operate for the average user."? What is their level of knowledge on Bitshares? I hope they did some research before starting this kind of project...

Offline bench

The BTS Foundation should stay in contact with the Binance team. The Binance Exchange have a huge userbase and on the long run both projects will benefit.

I don't see a problem when a member from Binance gets a witness.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2018, 11:41:30 pm by bench »
Be part of the change and vote for the bitshares-vision proxy!

Offline KenMonkey

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Assuming that the BBF applied for that hackathon, what reasons would there be for Binance to
not fork the BitShares Code and instead use the existing blockchain?

* forking is not trivial
* skilled and experienced (!) developers are hard to find
* we have an existing ecosystem (community, users) that can't be forked so easily
* BTS already has value, development of codebase basically pays for itself

IMO we have much to gain and little to lose from applying.
Pshaw! They should be so lucky as to use the BitShares blockchain. Sure! Put another exchange on the BitShares blockchain. Has anyone entered BitShares in this? Wtf is even binance? Sounds silly.