Author Topic: Is it a good idea to lower MSSR of bitCNY from 1.1 to 1.05 or even lower?  (Read 10618 times)

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Offline xeroc

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I am glad to see we finally have a discussion.

1. Charge the mortgagor Margin Called(mandatory liquidation)deal  fees, charge 5% or higher
2. Change the MSSR to 105%
4. Change the collateral ratio to two parts: Margin Call ratio(175%)and Maintenance collateral ratio(185%or180%).

IF want to change the MSSR to 105%, must have 1 or 4, can't separate!!!

And the time is not the good chance to change the MSSR, must wait the market turnning to good!!!

What makes you believe those settings are objectively good and *balanced*?
I am not sure what point 4) does, there only is a maintenance ratio and a short squeeze ratio. Never heard of a margin call ratio ..

Quote
witness.yao
delegate.freedom
magicwallet.witness

Please change back to 110%, must wait the market turnning to good!!!
This, allthough my reasons is that they changed the MSSR without broader discussion (at least in the rest of the world).
A simple BSIP could be enought to let people know about the conclusions made in discussions!

Offline Yao

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Chinese community discussion about "bitCNY premium of up to 10% leads to poor user deposit experience(The deposit fee is too high and Fiat CNY is not willing to enter to DEX.)" and "10% off sell BTS has led to a chain of mandatory closed positions" for a long time, abit posted an ideas  on April 16, 2018: dynamic adjustment of maintenance collateral ratio and Maximum short squeeze ratio.

See the topic post by @abit :https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=26315.0 using Google Translate.

and this topic:https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=26762.msg319760#msg319760
« Last Edit: August 16, 2018, 12:02:13 pm by Yao »

Offline binggo

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1. Charge the mortgagor Margin Called(mandatory liquidation)deal  fees, charge 5% or higher
2. Change the MSSR to 105%
4. Change the collateral ratio to two parts: Margin Call ratio(175%)and Maintenance collateral ratio(185%or180%).

IF want to change the MSSR to 105%, must have 1 or 4, can't separate!!!

And the time is not the good chance to change the MSSR, must wait the market turnning to good!!!

witness.yao
delegate.freedom
magicwallet.witness

Please change back to 110%, must wait the market turnning to good!!!

If the market weight of BITUSD is large, the BITUSD MSSR must be changed too.
 
« Last Edit: August 16, 2018, 12:37:07 pm by binggo »

Offline Yao

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Sorry for so quick changing from 1.1 to 1.05 without any statements here. Yes magicwallet  suggested to have change MSSR in wechat witness group days ago, but MSSR is unlike price feed itself,   it has a long time consensus for most bitAssets (which is 1.1).  we should discuss more and make a scheduled change statement. For now, it happened and react to the opinion of magicwallet, we just leave it as is until next change (this time make a statement before changing back or any other number). If we can agree on make a test for some time (i.e 3 m),
at the end of the test, will also make our opinion public available before action.

In fact, we have been discussing the parameters of MSSR in "BTS witness internal discussion" WeChat Group 8 months ago.

Here is the screenshot of the discussion:
https://steemit.com/bitshares/@imyao/bts-witness-wechat-talked-about-mssr-from-2017-12-29

In the past eight months, I have repeatedly expressed opinions on this issue in the group. @bitcrab finally posted this post to face this problem, I have already been eager to try.

Of course, I am too hasty, but the users of the Chinese community have complained about the high premium of bitCNY for more than a year. Why not try to do an experiment?
« Last Edit: August 16, 2018, 11:35:04 am by Yao »

Offline bitcrab

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actually China community has discussed this topic a lot, it's not a very new idea. witnesses like magicwallet has suggested to reduce MSSR before, they are not "just do it".
That is good news. The point I am trying to make is that the english-speaking community was not made aware prior to the fact.

How about using the BSIP framework (which offers to write so called "informational" proposal) to bring this proposal before the (english-speaking) community in a known format.
These days, many voters actually read the shareholder summary of BSIPs to build an opinion.

Please craft a BSIP and get it discussed ... that way actions of witnesses would be based on "some" document.

Currently, the actions of those witnesses that go for 5% already just forces me to flag them as bad actors ...
I'd rather keep them approved - considering I actually consider reducing the MSSR worth testing - maybe not to 5% but rather 7% - but that is what needs to be discussed with the BTS voters)

I can draft a BSIP, but seems a little strange...

why initially MCR and MSSR are not set as committee controlled parameters but are determined by witnesses? I don't know, I feel maybe setting them as committee controlled parameters is better but I am not sure.


 
« Last Edit: August 16, 2018, 10:58:14 am by bitcrab »
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Offline pluswave

Sorry for so quick changing from 1.1 to 1.05 without any statements here. Yes magicwallet  suggested to have change MSSR in wechat witness group days ago, but MSSR is unlike price feed itself,   it has a long time consensus for most bitAssets (which is 1.1).  we should discuss more and make a scheduled change statement. For now, it happened and react to the opinion of magicwallet, we just leave it as is until next change (this time make a statement before changing back or any other number). If we can agree on make a test for some time (i.e 3 m),
at the end of the test, will also make our opinion public available before action.
blog: https://blog.xiaofuxing.name
org: https://www.magicwallet.io
Please vote for magicwallet.witness !

Offline Yao

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First 3 witnesses who changed MSSR :

witness.yao
delegate.freedom
magicwallet.witness

If you got them as witness voted you can unvote them if you don't agree to their actions

To be more precise, those three changed MSSR on bitCNY.

witness.yao changed it also on bitUSD and bitEUR that was not part of the discussion!!!

Sorry, a hand mistake has been corrected.

Offline xeroc

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any doc that describe the design? I haven't found any in https://github.com/bitshares/bsips
https://github.com/bitshares/bsips/pull/86


actually China community has discussed this topic a lot, it's not a very new idea. witnesses like magicwallet has suggested to reduce MSSR before, they are not "just do it".
That is good news. The point I am trying to make is that the english-speaking community was not made aware prior to the fact.

How about using the BSIP framework (which offers to write so called "informational" proposal) to bring this proposal before the (english-speaking) community in a known format.
These days, many voters actually read the shareholder summary of BSIPs to build an opinion.

Please craft a BSIP and get it discussed ... that way actions of witnesses would be based on "some" document.

Currently, the actions of those witnesses that go for 5% already just forces me to flag them as bad actors ...
I'd rather keep them approved - considering I actually consider reducing the MSSR worth testing - maybe not to 5% but rather 7% - but that is what needs to be discussed with the BTS voters)

Offline paliboy

First 3 witnesses who changed MSSR :

witness.yao
delegate.freedom
magicwallet.witness

If you got them as witness voted you can unvote them if you don't agree to their actions

To be more precise, those three changed MSSR on bitCNY.

witness.yao changed it also on bitUSD and bitEUR that was not part of the discussion!!!

Offline gghi

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     是的,必须充分讨论。充值费用很高就是个畸形,为什么市场上炙手可热的bitcny我们不敢生产。why? 好比一种商品市场上很吃香,然而我们不敢生产,不是造不出来,而是我们不敢生产。因为只要设法拉高喂价就可以生产更多的bitcny。是因为我们的思想被禁锢了。

     
Yes, we must discuss it fully. The high cost of recharge is a deformity. Why do we dare not produce bitcny in the market?why?  It is like a commodity market is very popular, but we dare not produce, not make, but we dare not produce. As long as we try to raise the feed price, we can produce more bitcny. It is because our minds are imprisoned.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2018, 10:22:45 am by gghi »

Offline bitcrab

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I believe, once we have the custom operations BSIP approved and ready on chain, we might actually be able to technically hire someone for trading and pay them for doing so. (different topic)


any detail about the custom operations BSIP?
This is in development and allows to setup keys that are restricted, for instance, to only trade a specific market and do not have access to the funds in general - trading only.
Or another key could be used to allow only adjusting of collateral ratios etc ....

any doc that describe the design? I haven't found any in https://github.com/bitshares/bsips
Email:bitcrab@qq.com

Offline Thul3

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as I know, 2 witnesses has switched to push 1.05 as MSSR, more witnesses are working for the change.
While I agree with the proposal in general, I do *not* agree with the witnesses just flipping their opinions singlehandedly .. without even having discussed things with the BTS voters ..
For me, I saw this proposal only today and haven't been given sufficient time to let the proposal sink in properly.

The consequence might as well be that I need to look into removing my vote for witnesses that just "do" without community engagement. So far, the consensus has been a 10% MSSR.
I understand that the english-speaking community is not the target-audience for bitCNY, but I do feel a responsibility towards the BitShares Blockchain as
a platform with bitCNY being a prominent "product" - that is why I engage in discussions around bitCNY frequently and try to provide my point of view.

Rushing changes without proper discussion rarely results in good outcome. Let's rather argue here in the forums and see where the community and wisdom of the crowd puts us.

actually China community has discussed this topic a lot, it's not a very new idea. witnesses like magicwallet has suggested to reduce MSSR before, they are not "just do it".

to make the new MSSR take effects need more than 14 witnesses to change, I feel it will take more than 1 week, we can discuss this topic sufficiently in this time and stop the change immediately if community reach an consensus that the change is dangerous.

First 3 witnesses who changed MSSR :

witness.yao
delegate.freedom
magicwallet.witness

If you got them as witness voted you can unvote them if you don't agree to their actions

Offline bitcrab

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as I know, 2 witnesses has switched to push 1.05 as MSSR, more witnesses are working for the change.
While I agree with the proposal in general, I do *not* agree with the witnesses just flipping their opinions singlehandedly .. without even having discussed things with the BTS voters ..
For me, I saw this proposal only today and haven't been given sufficient time to let the proposal sink in properly.

The consequence might as well be that I need to look into removing my vote for witnesses that just "do" without community engagement. So far, the consensus has been a 10% MSSR.
I understand that the english-speaking community is not the target-audience for bitCNY, but I do feel a responsibility towards the BitShares Blockchain as
a platform with bitCNY being a prominent "product" - that is why I engage in discussions around bitCNY frequently and try to provide my point of view.

Rushing changes without proper discussion rarely results in good outcome. Let's rather argue here in the forums and see where the community and wisdom of the crowd puts us.

actually China community has discussed this topic a lot, it's not a very new idea. witnesses like magicwallet has suggested to reduce MSSR before, they are not "just do it".

to make the new MSSR take effects need more than 14 witnesses to change, I feel it will take more than 1 week, we can discuss this topic sufficiently in this time and stop the change immediately if community reach an consensus that the change is dangerous.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2018, 09:52:09 am by bitcrab »
Email:bitcrab@qq.com

Offline MrFrismint

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Offline xeroc

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I believe, once we have the custom operations BSIP approved and ready on chain, we might actually be able to technically hire someone for trading and pay them for doing so. (different topic)


any detail about the custom operations BSIP?
This is in development and allows to setup keys that are restricted, for instance, to only trade a specific market and do not have access to the funds in general - trading only.
Or another key could be used to allow only adjusting of collateral ratios etc ....

actually MSSR is pushed by witnesses like feed price, it's not a committee controlled parameter, so witnesses can push the MSSR value which they think proper.
Good point!

as I know, 2 witnesses has switched to push 1.05 as MSSR, more witnesses are working for the change.
While I agree with the proposal in general, I do *not* agree with the witnesses just flipping their opinions singlehandedly .. without even having discussed things with the BTS voters ..
For me, I saw this proposal only today and haven't been given sufficient time to let the proposal sink in properly.

The consequence might as well be that I need to look into removing my vote for witnesses that just "do" without community engagement. So far, the consensus has been a 10% MSSR.
I understand that the english-speaking community is not the target-audience for bitCNY, but I do feel a responsibility towards the BitShares Blockchain as
a platform with bitCNY being a prominent "product" - that is why I engage in discussions around bitCNY frequently and try to provide my point of view.

Rushing changes without proper discussion rarely results in good outcome. Let's rather argue here in the forums and see where the community and wisdom of the crowd puts us.