[Worker] Integration of BTS with Wirex

[startail]

Hello guys,

Do we have any update to this worker status?
I see we had some activity on invoices in oktober, but no update on the status of it.

[xeroc]

Getting on/off ramps for bitAssets is out of scope?

out of scope of this worker proposal, yes.

[bench]

What you propose is out of scope.

Getting on/off ramps for bitAssets is out of scope?

[Ammar Yousef (ioBanker)]

I suggest to have discussions about the current design and mechanism of profits of the bitAssets then to study how can bitAssets pass the howey test initially before starting promoting bitAssets in a common enterprise that facilitates cards transactions.

I recommend you write your thoughts together into a BSIP and get constructive discussion started there.

Thanks for the recommendation.

[xeroc]

I suggest to have discussions about the current design and mechanism of profits of the bitAssets then to study how can bitAssets pass the howey test initially before starting promoting bitAssets in a common enterprise that facilitates cards transactions.

I recommend you write your thoughts together into a BSIP and get constructive discussion started there.

[Ammar Yousef (ioBanker)]

This worker is good only if wirex are willing to create a "BitAssets" stablecoin alternative to how much account holder is handling at their end, this will let Wirex users to exchange between BTS and Wirex "BitAssets" stablecoin and withdraw "BitAssets" by cards at any time.

This has to be discussed with Wirex, and the integration for this from their side is not complex.

OTHERWISE IT WILL BE JUST ANOTHER LEGACY COIN FASHION LISTING AT CEX

Meanwhile major amount of BTS are dumped as bounty to get bitCNY listed on CEX? Getting BTS integrated will provide EMEA debit card access which massively simplifies using Bitshares for everyday finances IRL. What you propose is out of scope.

This has to be discussed with Wirex, and the integration for this from their side is not complex.

You may have missed that the real thing here is the legal paper work for being compliant with credit card networks!
It surely not about the technicalities of integrating bitshares.

Also, if you can convince their lawyers that bitAssets are not securities, then that can be done right afterwards.

Before trying to convince their lawyers; we have to design the bitAssets to not get classified as a security.

I suggest to have discussions about the current design and mechanism of profits of the bitAssets then to study how can bitAssets pass the howey test initially before starting promoting bitAssets in a common enterprise that facilitates cards transactions.

Why? The worker proposal states that BTS will be integrated primarily, not the bitassets - thus your concerns are out of scope.

I know this is a helpful card feature for users who wants to cash out BTS without the need to exchange it with anther coin then to cash withdraw it with any of many cards providers but priority wise for the network, I see paying $375,500 is too much at this stage for listing BTS at card issuer because the return wouldn't cover that amount in my opinion as we need to focus more on having business use cases that would utilize BTS itself.

[R]

This worker is good only if wirex are willing to create a "BitAssets" stablecoin alternative to how much account holder is handling at their end, this will let Wirex users to exchange between BTS and Wirex "BitAssets" stablecoin and withdraw "BitAssets" by cards at any time.

This has to be discussed with Wirex, and the integration for this from their side is not complex.

OTHERWISE IT WILL BE JUST ANOTHER LEGACY COIN FASHION LISTING AT CEX

Meanwhile major amount of BTS are dumped as bounty to get bitCNY listed on CEX? Getting BTS integrated will provide EMEA debit card access which massively simplifies using Bitshares for everyday finances IRL. What you propose is out of scope.

This has to be discussed with Wirex, and the integration for this from their side is not complex.

You may have missed that the real thing here is the legal paper work for being compliant with credit card networks!
It surely not about the technicalities of integrating bitshares.

Also, if you can convince their lawyers that bitAssets are not securities, then that can be done right afterwards.

Before trying to convince their lawyers; we have to design the bitAssets to not get classified as a security.

I suggest to have discussions about the current design and mechanism of profits of the bitAssets then to study how can bitAssets pass the howey test initially before starting promoting bitAssets in a common enterprise that facilitates cards transactions.

Why? The worker proposal states that BTS will be integrated primarily, not the bitassets - thus your concerns are out of scope.

[Ammar Yousef (ioBanker)]

This has to be discussed with Wirex, and the integration for this from their side is not complex.

You may have missed that the real thing here is the legal paper work for being compliant with credit card networks!
It surely not about the technicalities of integrating bitshares.

Also, if you can convince their lawyers that bitAssets are not securities, then that can be done right afterwards.

Before trying to convince their lawyers; we have to design the bitAssets to not get classified as a security.

I suggest to have discussions about the current design and mechanism of profits of the bitAssets then to study how can bitAssets pass the howey test initially before starting promoting bitAssets in a common enterprise that facilitates cards transactions.

[xeroc]

This has to be discussed with Wirex, and the integration for this from their side is not complex.

You may have missed that the real thing here is the legal paper work for being compliant with credit card networks!
It surely not about the technicalities of integrating bitshares.

Also, if you can convince their lawyers that bitAssets are not securities, then that can be done right afterwards.

[Digital Lucifer]

This worker is good only if wirex are willing to create a "BitAssets" stablecoin alternative to how much account holder is handling at their end, this will let Wirex users to exchange between BTS and Wirex "BitAssets" stablecoin and withdraw "BitAssets" by cards at any time.

This has to be discussed with Wirex, and the integration for this from their side is not complex.

OTHERWISE IT WILL BE JUST ANOTHER LEGACY COIN FASHION LISTING AT CEX

Not really and believe they will have their own fiat pegged currencies. As user of Revolut on behalf of Institute, i do appreciate having crypto on card. Having BTS would enable me that through them pay whatever i want around without need to do trading to cex and cashout to local account/atm/debit card.

So, of all the workers we have Wirex is one of the rare ones that actually strikes that "mass-adoption" in some real sense.

[Ammar Yousef (ioBanker)]

This worker is good only if wirex are willing to create a "BitAssets" stablecoin alternative to how much account holder is handling at their end, this will let Wirex users to exchange between BTS and Wirex "BitAssets" stablecoin and withdraw "BitAssets" by cards at any time.

This has to be discussed with Wirex, and the integration for this from their side is not complex.

OTHERWISE IT WILL BE JUST ANOTHER LEGACY COIN FASHION LISTING AT CEX

[ljk424]

这是个积极的回应，我们希望项目的发起人和推动者能够尽可能多的披露工作开展的情况，这个项目花费的时间太长了，而且每天的经费是44320bts，这是相当大的一笔开支，我仍然认为，目前的项目进展以及成功之后带来的效果，不值得每天花费44320BTS

[sschiessl]

Bilingual quote from Annemieke

Update on Wirex
Wirex 进展通告

As of today, we have a good working relationship with Wirex. After our initial application, it took longer than expected on their side to formally process, as they were themselves fully occupied with their intended large expansion in South East Asia (see https://wirexapp.com).

时至今日，我们一直与 Wirex 保持着非常良好的合作关系。当我们第一次向 Wirex 提交申请后，Wirex 用了比预期更久的时间来正式处理这份申请，原因是当时他们正忙于在东南亚扩张市场的计划 （详见 https://wirexapp.com)。

The application was judged positive and resulted in a massive document for the official on-boarding. This involves; legal proof of all connected entities and persons: Me, the Bitshares Blockchain Foundation, Blockchain Projects BV, the contracts involved in between, tax filings and legislative issues on all, situations and facts around websites involved in BTS, their contracts with parties involved, responsible roles, Ultimate Beneficiaries of them all, involved trading exchanges on BTS and much, much more.

最终，我们的申请得到了正面反馈，而接下来我们需要向 Wirex 提供大量的文件来确保 BTS 可以正式上线。我们需要提供的文件包括：所有相关实体和个人的法律证明（我本人、比特股基金会（BBF）、Blockchain Projects BV 公司）、所有的相关合同、税务申报及法律问题、所有涉及到 BTS 的网站信息及现况、所有与相关方的合作合同、责任方、最终受益人、BTS 涉及的交易所等等，以及很多很多其他的事项。

This is serious preparation work to get it all complete prior to sending to the lawyers. We try to be as complete and effective as possible before their UK and German lawyers go over all the information.

这是一项需要非常认真准备的工作，在交给律师前，我们需要确保把所有文件都准备好。在 Wirex 英国和德国的律师审核所有信息之前，我们尽可能高效、准时地提交完整的文件。

Please bear in mind this is not a listing on an exchange. It is a debit card. This involves high regulatory demand all over the world. Which I personally not only understand, but  am very much in favour of. It adds to the BTS reputation to handle and get through such a procedure, even though it is a decentralized situation in nature.
 
需要特别注意的是，这不同于在交易所上市。这是借记卡，它需要满足全球高度监管的要求。我本人非常清楚并且赞同这些要求，同时，尽管我们是在去中心化的情况下运作的，我们有处理并通过这些繁杂手续的实力，这对提升 BTS 的名声会有很大的帮助。

The availability of Wirex in Africa and the soon to be available South East Asian region opens up many business opportunities for BTS, BitCNY and new businesses on top of the BitShares Blockchain in a natural organic way. Furthermore, personally, I am looking forward to entering into the mail blasts Wirex does to its customers on a weekly basis. That outreach alone is marketing for BTS we otherwise never would be able to Afford.

Wirex 可以在非洲使用，未来也将在东南亚流通，这将为 BTS、BitCNY 和其他在 BitShares 区块链上的新兴项目提供更多新的业务机会。同时，我本人非常期待 BTS 被列入 Wirex 每周给客户的群发邮件中，这对 BTS 来说是一个很好的营销机会，这也是我们仅凭一己之力很难实现的。

In short, even during the holidays, we are at it. But this not a small “thingy “ to be dealt with in an email or two or a simple doc we can sign and be done with. It is heavy due diligence, not alone on us, but all we are involved with. We are confident we will complete it all. It is just work to be handled.

简单来说，这个工作量不小，不是发一两封邮件或者签署一份简单的文档就能解决的事情。因此，即使是在假期，我们也在马不停蹄地跟进这件事。这是一项繁重的尽职调查，这不仅仅关系到我们自己，还关系到 BTS 相关的所有人，我们有信心一定能顺利完成。只是我们还需要时间来完成这些工作量。

Hope this clarifies the duration of the process!
希望这个帖子能够让大家理解这个过程所需要的时间。

Best Regards, Annemieke
Annemieke 敬上

[R]

I hope that this worker proposal will be reactivated, I've got a wirex card now and have been using it across Europe, it's very handy. 👍

[twitter]

it is a good start. I think you have little PM experience . it would be nice if you can manage Wirex application tasks by using ms-project or some office tools.  it would be very nice of you if you can provide all yours tasks (with time spend) in a  list by time order.
 

Update on Wirex:

As of today, we have a good working relationship with Wirex. After our
initial application it took longer than expected on their side to
formally process, as they where themselves fully occupied with their
intended large expansion in South East Asia (see https://wirexapp.com).

The application was judged positive and resulted in a massive document
for the official on-boarding. This involves; legal proof of all
connected entities and persons: Me, the Bitshares Blockchain Foundation,
Blockchain Projects BV, the contracts involved in between, tax filings
and legislative issues on all, situations and facts around websites
involved in BTS, their contracts with parties involved, responsible
roles, Ultimate Beneficiaries of them all, involved trading exchanges on
BTS and much, much more.

This is serious preparation work to get it all complete prior to sending
to the lawyers. We try to be as complete and effective as possible
before their UK and German lawyers go over all the information.

Please bear in mind this is not a listing on an exchange. It is a debit
card. This involves high regulatory demand all over the world. Which I
personally not only understand, but am very much in favour of. It adds
to the BTS reputation to handle and get through such a procedure, even
though it is a decentralized situation in nature.

The availability of Wirex in Africa and the soon to be available Sout
East Asian region opens up many business opportunities for BTS, BitCNY
and new businesses ontop of the BitShares Blockchain in a natural
organic way. Furthermore, personally, I am looking forward to entering
into the mail blasts Wirex does to its customers on weekly basis. That
outreach alone is marketing for BTS we otherwise never would be able to
afford.

In short, even during the holidays, we are at it. But this not a small
“thingy “ to be dealt with in an email or two or a simple doc we can
sign and be done with. It is heavy due diligence, not alone on us, but
all we are involved with. We are confident we will complete it all. It
is just work to be handled.

Hope this clarifies the duration of the process!

Best Regards, Annemieke

[xeroc]

Update on Wirex:

As of today, we have a good working relationship with Wirex. After our
initial application it took longer than expected on their side to
formally process, as they where themselves fully occupied with their
intended large expansion in South East Asia (see https://wirexapp.com).

The application was judged positive and resulted in a massive document
for the official on-boarding. This involves; legal proof of all
connected entities and persons: Me, the Bitshares Blockchain Foundation,
Blockchain Projects BV, the contracts involved in between, tax filings
and legislative issues on all, situations and facts around websites
involved in BTS, their contracts with parties involved, responsible
roles, Ultimate Beneficiaries of them all, involved trading exchanges on
BTS and much, much more.

This is serious preparation work to get it all complete prior to sending
to the lawyers. We try to be as complete and effective as possible
before their UK and German lawyers go over all the information.

Please bear in mind this is not a listing on an exchange. It is a debit
card. This involves high regulatory demand all over the world. Which I
personally not only understand, but am very much in favour of. It adds
to the BTS reputation to handle and get through such a procedure, even
though it is a decentralized situation in nature.

The availability of Wirex in Africa and the soon to be available Sout
East Asian region opens up many business opportunities for BTS, BitCNY
and new businesses ontop of the BitShares Blockchain in a natural
organic way. Furthermore, personally, I am looking forward to entering
into the mail blasts Wirex does to its customers on weekly basis. That
outreach alone is marketing for BTS we otherwise never would be able to
afford.

In short, even during the holidays, we are at it. But this not a small
“thingy “ to be dealt with in an email or two or a simple doc we can
sign and be done with. It is heavy due diligence, not alone on us, but
all we are involved with. We are confident we will complete it all. It
is just work to be handled.

Hope this clarifies the duration of the process!

Best Regards, Annemieke

[bench]

Do we have any update or progress reports on the Wirex integration?

An update would be nice!

[startail]

Do we have any update or progress reports on the Wirex integration?

[R]

Used the wirex card to purchase goods online, very cool. Looking forwards to BTS integration into Wirex 👍

[startail]

Wirex seems to be a good company to use. I ordered a card to test them out around 2-3 months ago and they've served me well since then. They're expanding massively, and with their new utility token attracting some attention the last few days.

Their whitepaper states they will add their own Stable assets called *W (as in USDW, CNYW etc), and also in the long run they will add margin collateral but it still has no planned date. With this they are a competitor, or you can work together and see them as a friend. I support this Worker based on the good usage I think Wirex can help our platform with.

Their expansion horizon is massive, doubling every year, and their schedule on this is no less, adding new markets all the time. This would benefit us to.

While BTS would be a good start, I'd love to see the possibility to have one or more of our stable coins added to the list of tradeable assets on the wirex app. But that's up to the worker to negotiate the best bang for the buck. It may be to costly to convince them to do this.

 

[sschiessl]

Support! But when it available to Asian?

Only Wirex knows that. Jademont might have a better overview over the ongoings in that market.

[BTSMoon]

Support! But when it available to Asian?

[sschiessl]

If we go ahead with this WP, will subsequent integrations (bitUSD, bitEUR, ..) cost just as much? Or do you think we can get a discount? Got my card in the mail 👌

I'm afraid your guess is as good as anyone's because there are still too many unknowns for that.

[R]

If we go ahead with this WP, will subsequent integrations (bitUSD, bitEUR, ..) cost just as much? Or do you think we can get a discount? Got my card in the mail 👌

[R]

Just verified and ordered my wirex card, ordering anything online with a debit card & a crypto balance is pretty cool.

[xeroc]

I will not support this worker until can get more data analize about how much value this could give us.
there are no reason to pay for listing in a nobody use service, such as all fake volume exchange.

I doubt that "no body use" is a fair assessment for wirex, but i also do not yet have material at hand to prove otherwise.

Thanks for looking into the worker and providing your opinion.

[alt]

I will not support this worker until can get more data analize about how much value this could give us.
there are no reason to pay for listing in a nobody use service, such as all fake volume exchange.

[abit]

because I just searched that users need to pay 3% fees when use crypto current desposit fund. I doubt this could be accept by most people.

I can only say that Chinese people maybe got used to "free" stuff with hidden costs, western people may (or may not) be more familiar with products with explicit listed fees. So this proposal is mostly for the west (so there are KYC requirements and etc).

The key to success: find out the target user group, and market to them accordingly. Both are important. For example, marketing cheap goods to rich people will likely fail.

[xeroc]

can you provide the information about:
1. how many money did other community like Bitcoin Litecoin, dai etc pay for the listing?
2. how many real users did people use Bitcoin in wirex? LItecoin? Dai?
because I just searched that users need to pay 3% fees when use crypto current desposit fund. I doubt this could be accept by most people.

1. In short, we don't know. What can be told is that the price offered to the community is significantly less than what the initial offer was due to weeks-long negotiations
2. I do not know. The point is, if the community choses not to be listed, it will be 0 - exactly 0. How long it will take for the market to accept the wirex card and users to use it for BTS - that's something only the market can decide. That's also why there are no promises made, it's a simple listing on a credit card provider. People are free to use it, or not.

[sschiessl]

can you provide the information about:
1. how many money did other community like Bitcoin Litecoin, dai etc pay for the listing?

For all cases I could find that information is locked down with NDAs.

2. how many real users did people use Bitcoin in wirex? LItecoin? Dai?
because I just searched that users need to pay 3% fees when use crypto current desposit fund. I doubt this could be accept by most people.

We are working some numbers for that, and will publish them as soon as we have any.

[sschiessl]

Only BTS will be listed or also include bitCNY/bitUSD/bitEUR/etc?

This proposal is only for listing of BTS, which is equivalent to a regulatory endorsement IMO and will be more than beneficial for any other asset to be listed (personal guess and no promise).
In general, Wirex is not opposed to (crypto-collaterized) stable coins, see DAI and Stellar support.

[alt]

can you provide the information about:
1. how many money did other community like Bitcoin Litecoin, dai etc pay for the listing?
2. how many real users did people use Bitcoin in wirex? LItecoin? Dai?
because I just searched that users need to pay 3% fees when use crypto current desposit fund. I doubt this could be accept by most people.

https://www.bitshares.foundation/workers/2019-05-wirex-integration

Worker Intent

Months of preparations, intensive phone calls and business development lead to a verbal agreement from credit card processor Wirex to list BTS. We believe that Wirex comes with a reasonable cost-benefit ratio and has an excellent reputation in the space. Wirex comes with 2.2 million registered users and the WirexApp provides access to Euro, British Pound and US Dollar and supports Bitcoin, Litecoin, Ethereum, Ripple, WAVES, NANO, DAI and XLM.

Notably, its debit card services run over VISA.

Wirex is a well established and fully regulated company, properly outfitted with KYC and compliance. All information on its services, terms and conditions can be found on wirexapp.com. Its service also entails an affiliate program and a reward for use. We invite everyone to read up on the details.

We see this as a highly desirable functionality. As BTS is listed on known technical structures we have been offered this opportunity at much less than the usual price.

Depending on their worker load and schedule, Wirex technical team can integrate BitShares within 4 weeks.

[abit]

Only BTS will be listed or also include bitCNY/bitUSD/bitEUR/etc?

[xeroc]

We now have a Chinese translation of the worker proposal:

https://www.bitshares.foundation/workers/2019-05-wirex-integration-cn

[liondani]

I fully support this worker! many benefits!

[Thul3]

I voted for wirex as i prefer to see this feature instead that we currently spend a similar amount on the bitshares ui worker to get another UI.

[sahkan]

Supported. But it seems that we are lacking support from a group of folks that constantly twist your (@xeroc) arm to support their changes but don't support or even don't comment on other initiatives.

[ripplexiaoshan]

Support!

[blockchained]

[xeroc]

*bump*
Brief reminder to consider voting for this worker.

[xeroc]

Can this worker proposal include Brexit contingency considerations?

Wirex is located in UK & Germany. While no one can predict the outcome of Brexit, I suppose they are prepared structurally.

[bitProfessor]

Great!

[R]

Can this worker proposal include Brexit contingency considerations?

[matle85]

This is a substantial cost but the potential benefits are huge so on balance I think its a really good call and we should proceed.

Great job to Xeroc and the team for bringing this to the table.

I've signed up to Wirex and will try over the coming week or so.

[xeroc]

https://www.bitshares.foundation/workers/2019-05-wirex-integration

Worker Intent

Months of preparations, intensive phone calls and business development lead to a verbal agreement from credit card processor Wirex to list BTS. We believe that Wirex comes with a reasonable cost-benefit ratio and has an excellent reputation in the space. Wirex comes with 2.2 million registered users and the WirexApp provides access to Euro, British Pound and US Dollar and supports Bitcoin, Litecoin, Ethereum, Ripple, WAVES, NANO, DAI and XLM.

Notably, its debit card services run over VISA.

Wirex is a well established and fully regulated company, properly outfitted with KYC and compliance. All information on its services, terms and conditions can be found on wirexapp.com. Its service also entails an affiliate program and a reward for use. We invite everyone to read up on the details.

We see this as a highly desirable functionality. As BTS is listed on known technical structures we have been offered this opportunity at much less than the usual price.

Depending on their worker load and schedule, Wirex technical team can integrate BitShares within 4 weeks.