Author Topic: GET YOUR BTS XT Wallet Here!  (Read 16039 times)

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Offline biophil

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Re: GET YOUR BTS XT Wallet Here!
« Reply #30 on: March 01, 2014, 07:22:50 pm »
So our current holdings of PTS are not worth anything in its former version "PTS" but there is no wallet ready to enable those funds to be transferred to the new version of BTS XT, which means we just have to sit on our hands and wait until (hopefully) a third party comes along and produces a wallet?

Another important thing to recognize is that Invictus themselves have huge PTS holdings that also just lost 50% of their value to the "limbo" that you speak of. They can't recoup this value until BitShares XT is launched, which gives them a very strong incentive ($1,000,000+) to complete the BitShares XT software as quickly as possible.

You seem worried about the "3rd party" thing as well, but that's just because Invictus is very particular about the usage of "develop" and "launch": Invictus makes big claims that they will not actually be the ones who launch BitShares XT, but that's misleading because they are the ones who develop the software. They'll develop it, and then some anonymous person who lives somewhere with a permissive government will actually click the button that "launches" it. Invictus says this because they think it'll keep them out of legal trouble in the US.
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Offline Captain_Picard

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Re: GET YOUR BTS XT Wallet Here!
« Reply #31 on: March 01, 2014, 08:10:26 pm »
Thanks for the replies...

I am not trying to criticize anyone here, I am trying to explain this experience from a newbie investor's perspective so people know what we are thinking and seeing as this process evolves and hopefully learn from it.

I am fully comfortable with the idea of speculating on the future potential of an idea, and not looking to make a quick overnight buck, however I am not the only person confused with what has now happened post-snapshot.

I guess my understanding was that after the snapshot PTS would become BTS so the old PTS would basically be worthless/removed after being replaced with BTS - this would be very clear and easy to understand.  But what we have now to me is somewhat confusing to both existing investors and potential investors and confusion is not desirable if you are running what amounts to an investment fund.

If someone wants to invest in PTS now (post snapshot), what should they do or why would they invest?  They've missed the benefit of getting in "pre-snapshot" but are unable to buy any new "post snapshot" BTS because they are not available on any exchange nor are there any wallets to store them.   What should a new investor do from this point, should they buy "post snapshot" PTS on an exchange at the now deflated price without knowing how/when those be converted into BTS or wait until BTS is "ready"? 

Trust me, I think invictus has a lot more potential than Dogecoin or we would not be having this conversation, but the point I am trying to get across is that simple and direct communication and marketing is KEY to getting something off the ground and attracting investors and right now in this regard Doge is doing a far better job than Invictus.

I believe in the Invictus vision and maybe I am in the minority camp of being confused but you guys need help if you want to attract sophisticated investors who are accustomed to more traditional and simplified investor communications.   I am guessing this is not your highest priority while everything is still being built but if you need a marketing/communications person, let me know if I can help.

The commenter who clarified the use of the term "third party" helps a lot, I think?

Offline biophil

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Re: GET YOUR BTS XT Wallet Here!
« Reply #32 on: March 01, 2014, 08:40:06 pm »
Thanks for the replies...

I am not trying to criticize anyone here, I am trying to explain this experience from a newbie investor's perspective so people know what we are thinking and seeing as this process evolves and hopefully learn from it.

I am fully comfortable with the idea of speculating on the future potential of an idea, and not looking to make a quick overnight buck, however I am not the only person confused with what has now happened post-snapshot.

I guess my understanding was that after the snapshot PTS would become BTS so the old PTS would basically be worthless/removed after being replaced with BTS - this would be very clear and easy to understand.  But what we have now to me is somewhat confusing to both existing investors and potential investors and confusion is not desirable if you are running what amounts to an investment fund.

If someone wants to invest in PTS now (post snapshot), what should they do or why would they invest?  They've missed the benefit of getting in "pre-snapshot" but are unable to buy any new "post snapshot" BTS because they are not available on any exchange nor are there any wallets to store them.   What should a new investor do from this point, should they buy "post snapshot" PTS on an exchange at the now deflated price without knowing how/when those be converted into BTS or wait until BTS is "ready"? 

Trust me, I think invictus has a lot more potential than Dogecoin or we would not be having this conversation, but the point I am trying to get across is that simple and direct communication and marketing is KEY to getting something off the ground and attracting investors and right now in this regard Doge is doing a far better job than Invictus.

I believe in the Invictus vision and maybe I am in the minority camp of being confused but you guys need help if you want to attract sophisticated investors who are accustomed to more traditional and simplified investor communications.   I am guessing this is not your highest priority while everything is still being built but if you need a marketing/communications person, let me know if I can help.

The commenter who clarified the use of the term "third party" helps a lot, I think?

Let me clarify another point: PTS do not "convert" to BTS; PTS pays a dividend of BTS. The Feb 28 snapshot was the ex-dividend date for BitShares X. Own PTS on Feb 28, you're entitled to a proportional number of BitShares X when it launches. But the whole thing is designed with the idea that BitShares X (Invictus's brand name for the decentralized bank and exchange product) is not the only DAC that Invictus will ever develop. If you own PTS today, those PTS will entitle you to shares in future Invictus projects, each with their own snapshot dates.

I sympathize with you and your confusion. I've been skulking around this forum for a month now and am just finally starting to figure all these things out. I agree that Invictus badly needs to figure out how to communicate this stuff well. They do have some kind of marketing director, but I don't know how he spends his time. My guess is that part of the problem is that they're in typical startup "running around with their heads cut off" mode and they aren't completely aware that their marketing is just awful.

In defense of Invictus, one of their competitors (sort of - people are awfully particular around here about the word "competitor") is called Counterparty. If you want to see some confusing investor relations, head over to forums.counterparty.co and try to figure out how to even install their software. They make Invictus look like Google.  :)
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Offline oco101

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Re: GET YOUR BTS XT Wallet Here!
« Reply #33 on: March 01, 2014, 09:16:46 pm »

I guess my understanding was that after the snapshot PTS would become BTS so the old PTS would basically be worthless/removed after being replaced with BTS - this would be very clear and easy to understand.  But what we have now to me is somewhat confusing to both existing investors and potential investors and confusion is not desirable if you are running what amounts to an investment fund.

If someone wants to invest in PTS now (post snapshot), what should they do or why would they invest?  They've missed the benefit of getting in "pre-snapshot" but are unable to buy any new "post snapshot" BTS because they are not available on any exchange nor are there any wallets to store them.   What should a new investor do from this point, should they buy "post snapshot" PTS on an exchange at the now deflated price without knowing how/when those be converted into BTS or wait until BTS is "ready"? 

The "pre-snapshot" PTS and AGS gave investors share in BTS, as  this is the first DAC developed by Invictus.  PTS and AGS they are not transforming in BTS they still have a lot of value, as they will give you shares in all the new DAC Invictus  (and 3 parties developers that respect the social contract) are developing(Bitshare Dns, Bitshare Music, Bitshare Votes, etc)  please see this post here: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=2940.0 or  this video here http://vimeo.com/user24356268/review/87448377/66716b27fa . The reason to invest  in PTS or AGS now it will be to get share in all the upcoming  chains DAC.

So If you acquire PTS or AGS now they will not give you any BTS .

As a investor if you are only interested in BTS-XT you should wait  until the BTS-XT share are out so you can buy them. Why would you be interested to buy BTS ? Well one of the reason is that all the future  product line of decentralized banks and exchanges will be  be initialized with a snapshot (100%) of the state of BitShares XT around the time of their launch. So what that means is let say if you have 10 BTSXT in your wallet and a new decentralized bank  it coming out  e.g. BitShares XI, you'll have 10 BTXI in the new bank.

- PTS&AGS will give you share in every new line of chains developed in the future. New line of chains meaning it a completely new kind of DAC (Bitshare Dns, Bitshare Music, Bitshare Votes, etc)

-BTSXT - Will give you share in all the new bank and exchanges that are developed base on the line of chain of  Bitshare-XT ( Bitshares XI, Bitshare XV , Bitshare XC, etc)


For the rest we already agree that as is it now it is not easy for a newbie to find and understand all the development that is happening. But I know there is a big marketing push in the planing, witch will come once the Bitshare-XT chains it working and stable. And let not forget there will be a new website that hopefully will be the one place to get all the information that you need please see : https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=2927.msg37501#msg37501
« Last Edit: March 01, 2014, 09:42:53 pm by oco101 »

Offline bytemaster

Re: GET YOUR BTS XT Wallet Here!
« Reply #34 on: March 01, 2014, 09:17:08 pm »
Quote
In defense of Invictus, one of their competitors (sort of - people are awfully particular around here about the word "competitor") is called Counterparty. If you want to see some confusing investor relations, head over to forums.counterparty.co and try to figure out how to even install their software. They make Invictus look like Google.  :)

LOL.  Imagine trying to market the internet in 1990... no one even understands the basics and words hadn't even been invented to describe everything yet. 
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Offline Captain_Picard

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Re: GET YOUR BTS XT Wallet Here!
« Reply #35 on: March 01, 2014, 11:59:09 pm »
First, my hats off to all the hard work that is being done behind the scenes.  I trust we will be completely impressed with the result and overjoyed with our investments. 

In my case I found this forum recently without much time to research everything before the snapshot deadline, so I did not invest nearly as much (maybe 10%) as I would have had I been clear on several more aspects of the overall plan.  Am I ready to throw the other 90% in now that I think I understand?  So far, the answer is no.

Lol.... reminds me of this video that tries to explain the difference between Great Britain, England, the UK and the Crown:  http://biggeekdad.com/2011/03/the-uk-great-britain-and-england-explained/ 

except in this case we have Invictus, PTS, BTS, AGS plus a variety of future DACs.  I think a chart like they used at the end of the above video might be useful to explain the relationships of the different parts.

At least with Counterparty, Ethereum, Mastercoin, there is only one thing to buy as far as I can tell - the coin itself - and everyone who believes in their project buys that coin it is that simple.   I am sure the folks at Protoshares have it clear in their minds which stakes in which acronyms represent which opportunities, but if I tried to get other investors involved in this right now it would be far from a no-brainer and more like a mind-bender.

Regarding the previous comment "like trying to market the Internet in 1990, no one would understand..." you are exactly right, so the result was the only companies that actually succeeded WERE the ones who successfully explained and marketed it to the average Joe.  Most of the computer companies before Apple and the Internet companies who came before Google are dead Jim dead!  No matter how smart the developers were, the only ones that ever succeeded were the ones who could market to the masses.

This is why Dogecoin is succeeding, it might be the worst coin from a technical perspective, but a 10 year old "gets it" in about 15 seconds.  And, unfortunately, 10 year old brain power is a lot closer to the average out there in the world today...  I think platform for launching future DACs hold some promise as far as presenting simple solutions for real world problems.  I hope that is the end result of this project.

Offline mastermined

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Re: GET YOUR BTS XT Wallet Here!
« Reply #36 on: March 02, 2014, 12:06:10 am »
i'm cool. take your time and do it right.  8)
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Offline Pauly

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Re: GET YOUR BTS XT Wallet Here!
« Reply #37 on: March 02, 2014, 01:02:02 am »
Thanks for the updates, a couple questions, does this mean every DAC will require a new wallet? 

And I get it's like a dividend but if DAC's become more substantial, could it be forseeable that PTS will be worth less and less in time? Or are DAC's always considered a branch off of PTS main "stake".  thanks.

Offline bubbler

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Re: GET YOUR BTS XT Wallet Here!
« Reply #38 on: March 02, 2014, 01:03:44 am »
 :o :o :omark
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Offline cryptosig

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Re: GET YOUR BTS XT Wallet Here!
« Reply #39 on: March 02, 2014, 04:29:59 am »
If you didn't know about the wallet not being done than don't sell your PTS. Chances are you also won't know about any third party snapshots, it's unrealistic to be able to come in and out of PTS before every snapshot is taken. Also at least 50% of bitshares come from AGS which can not be sold easily. I will bet that people who have AGS will wind up making the most money because they are guaranteed to never miss a snapshot date.
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Offline cryptosig

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Re: GET YOUR BTS XT Wallet Here!
« Reply #40 on: March 02, 2014, 04:34:33 am »
Thanks for the updates, a couple questions, does this mean every DAC will require a new wallet? 

And I get it's like a dividend but if DAC's become more substantial, could it be foreseeable that PTS will be worth less and less in time? Or are DAC's always considered a branch off of PTS main "stake".  thanks.
DAC's that donate a percentage of premined shares, following the social contract, will take a snapshot of the PTS and AGS blockchains. All DAC's will derive from the main "stake" as you put it. Protoshares is the parent of all the children DAC's, in turn DAC's have children chains.

PTS will be worth more in time, because it will have a predictable rate of return from new DAC's. It will also be proven through statistics that people who held wound up getting more DACs, and hence more shares in third party DACs.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2014, 04:36:06 am by cryptosig »
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Offline mint chocolate chip

Re: GET YOUR BTS XT Wallet Here!
« Reply #41 on: March 02, 2014, 07:36:35 am »
i'm cool. take your time and do it right.  8)
Spot on. As anyone who has spent ample time doing their due diligence will tell you, this is uncharted territory, with things evolving. Rome wasn't built in a day and neither will this revolutionary new concept of DAC's. Have patience and enjoy the ride.

Offline bytemaster

Re: GET YOUR BTS XT Wallet Here!
« Reply #42 on: March 02, 2014, 07:37:56 am »
For those who want to run something to *see* their BTS balances even if you cannot move them...

I created a tool for viewing your BTS balance from AGS or PTS given a Bitcoin-Qt or Protshares wallet.dat:
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=3330.msg41898#msg41898

For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
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Offline kmtan

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Re: GET YOUR BTS XT Wallet Here!
« Reply #43 on: March 02, 2014, 02:11:21 pm »
For those who want to run something to *see* their BTS balances even if you cannot move them...

I created a tool for viewing your BTS balance from AGS or PTS given a Bitcoin-Qt or Protshares wallet.dat:
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=3330.msg41898#msg41898

thanks bytemaster

Offline sfinder

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Re: GET YOUR BTS XT Wallet Here!
« Reply #44 on: March 14, 2014, 05:50:08 pm »
just try to push this thread on the top <grin>
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