111* days estimated for Difficulty to retarget. Could this kill PTS?

[toast]

Blocks to retarget: 1675
Measured: 58.46%
Estimated difficulty: 0.01291682 (35.65%)
Time to retarget: 37d 23:14:47 (2014-04-26 00:14:11 UTC+9)


Is anyone working on this still?

So you're saying it went down? It's all good then right?
Dan offered to pay someone to do it, that person took a look and decided it wasn't necessary. If you submit a patch I'm sure you'll get paid the same.

[NewMine]

Blocks to retarget: 1675
Measured: 58.46%
Estimated difficulty: 0.01291682 (35.65%)
Time to retarget: 37d 23:14:47 (2014-04-26 00:14:11 UTC+9)


Is anyone working on this still? 

[Hukkel]

Yes the snapshot was taken 28th of feb.

But distributed cant be the correct term if it isn't done yet.

Is there any timeframe in which the BTS X will be finished?

[CLains]

I was thinking the other day, I hadn't read this before. But is it true the BTS X won't be released untill all PTS have been mined?

No. PTS has already distributed BTS X (this happened ~28th February). The only reason said PTS holders can't claim their BTS X is because BTS X is not yet done.

[Hukkel]

I was thinking the other day, I hadn't read this before. But is it true the BTS X won't be released untill all PTS have been mined?

[barwizi]

Here is a thread that has identified a means for miners to mine BTS:

https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=3587.msg45111#msg45111

The reality is that people can mine anything and trade it for PTS.   Miners should always mine what is most profitable so they can maximize their ROI.

That said it seems like we could benefit everyone by converting PTS to TaPOS and then allowing those who want to invest by mining to mine one of the other coins out there... NoirShares, DOGE, etc and then buy PTS on BTER.   In fact, making such a move would increase the value of PTS in the long term by 30%.   

What would everyone think about such an idea?

leave NRS out of your nefarious plans Dan. 

In fact, people should mine PTS and trade for NRS,  making such a move would increase the value of NRS in the long term by 30%.

Barwizi,

I'm confused why you seem to want to help the BitShares community (which I appreciate a lot),  but on the other hand, instead of cooperating with the community and the social consensus you released something that can only be viewed as a competitor and try to promote it here.  It's beyond me why you couldn't bear to give a 20% stake to this community for their support when you seem to like this community.

The people mining Noirshares are probably mostly people who troll the altcoin announcements on bitcointalk looking for things to mine early before it hits exchanges and they sell it.  These are the people you decided you prefer to give your shares away to.

Rather than have everyone interested in BitShares downloading your wallet and supporting your efforts and providing feedback, the only way for me to get into NoirShares is to take money away from what I would put into BitShares. So it is competition.

Unless I thought what you are doing is a bigger deal and more valuable to the goals of decentralization then what Invictus/Bitshares is doing, I just can't take support away from them to support you.

Maybe I have misinterpreted your goals and efforts but it feels this way to me.  Again, I appreciate all your attempts to help the community and movement; your decision just confuses me and I feel like it would have been better to cooperate instead of compete.

(Apologies for adding something off subject to this important thread)

I could be totally wrong as I wasn't and am not following NRS, but I think he was trying to honor Bitshares and no one would help him with the import/snapshot. This maybe so wrong as to what happened....

You actually know a bit of what happened. thank you for pointing that out.

They "asked" that we honour PTS and AGS without detailing how. I had to figure it out myself with no help from said community. Lol, now said community wants NoirShares in exchange for interest. If that idea was so solid...why was the bounty cancelled?

Anyway, those with actual intrest in NRS and NIG have already shown it and continue to do so.

[barwizi]

Here is a thread that has identified a means for miners to mine BTS:

https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=3587.msg45111#msg45111

The reality is that people can mine anything and trade it for PTS.   Miners should always mine what is most profitable so they can maximize their ROI.

That said it seems like we could benefit everyone by converting PTS to TaPOS and then allowing those who want to invest by mining to mine one of the other coins out there... NoirShares, DOGE, etc and then buy PTS on BTER.   In fact, making such a move would increase the value of PTS in the long term by 30%.   

What would everyone think about such an idea?

leave NRS out of your nefarious plans Dan. 

In fact, people should mine PTS and trade for NRS,  making such a move would increase the value of NRS in the long term by 30%.

Barwizi,

I'm confused why you seem to want to help the BitShares community (which I appreciate a lot),  but on the other hand, instead of cooperating with the community and the social consensus you released something that can only be viewed as a competitor and try to promote it here.  It's beyond me why you couldn't bear to give a 20% stake to this community for their support when you seem to like this community.

The people mining Noirshares are probably mostly people who troll the altcoin announcements on bitcointalk looking for things to mine early before it hits exchanges and they sell it.  These are the people you decided you prefer to give your shares away to.

Rather than have everyone interested in BitShares downloading your wallet and supporting your efforts and providing feedback, the only way for me to get into NoirShares is to take money away from what I would put into BitShares. So it is competition.

Unless I thought what you are doing is a bigger deal and more valuable to the goals of decentralization then what Invictus/Bitshares is doing, I just can't take support away from them to support you.

Maybe I have misinterpreted your goals and efforts but it feels this way to me.  Again, I appreciate all your attempts to help the community and movement; your decision just confuses me and I feel like it would have been better to cooperate instead of compete.

(Apologies for adding something off subject to this important thread)

Noir Investment Group is not a DAC. Nor did it use BPTS code. Nor are we competing with invictus. We solve different problems and pursue different  goals.

Have you read my arguments against the "consensus" ? Please do so, and maybe we can continue this conversation elsewhere, this thread is about the looming catastrophe on PTS.

When you get time, read the charting documents and policies of The NIG. I'll be looking forward to your invesment.

[NewMine]

Here is a thread that has identified a means for miners to mine BTS:

https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=3587.msg45111#msg45111

The reality is that people can mine anything and trade it for PTS.   Miners should always mine what is most profitable so they can maximize their ROI.

That said it seems like we could benefit everyone by converting PTS to TaPOS and then allowing those who want to invest by mining to mine one of the other coins out there... NoirShares, DOGE, etc and then buy PTS on BTER.   In fact, making such a move would increase the value of PTS in the long term by 30%.   

What would everyone think about such an idea?

leave NRS out of your nefarious plans Dan. 

In fact, people should mine PTS and trade for NRS,  making such a move would increase the value of NRS in the long term by 30%.

Barwizi,

I'm confused why you seem to want to help the BitShares community (which I appreciate a lot),  but on the other hand, instead of cooperating with the community and the social consensus you released something that can only be viewed as a competitor and try to promote it here.  It's beyond me why you couldn't bear to give a 20% stake to this community for their support when you seem to like this community.

The people mining Noirshares are probably mostly people who troll the altcoin announcements on bitcointalk looking for things to mine early before it hits exchanges and they sell it.  These are the people you decided you prefer to give your shares away to.

Rather than have everyone interested in BitShares downloading your wallet and supporting your efforts and providing feedback, the only way for me to get into NoirShares is to take money away from what I would put into BitShares. So it is competition.

Unless I thought what you are doing is a bigger deal and more valuable to the goals of decentralization then what Invictus/Bitshares is doing, I just can't take support away from them to support you.

Maybe I have misinterpreted your goals and efforts but it feels this way to me.  Again, I appreciate all your attempts to help the community and movement; your decision just confuses me and I feel like it would have been better to cooperate instead of compete.

(Apologies for adding something off subject to this important thread)

I could be totally wrong as I wasn't and am not following NRS, but I think he was trying to honor Bitshares and no one would help him with the import/snapshot. This maybe so wrong as to what happened....

[BTSdac]

Maybe it's time to do a proof of burn into a proto-asset that actually trades on the first Bitshares chain.  Seems miners don't understand why they'd want to keep mining now that Bitshares has split off.

I don't think this is a good idea, I think it's good if PTS is kept "pure".

We actually don't care if there are barely any miners, we just care that they dropped so quickly that the difficulty doesn't have time to adjust and so blocks are slowed down

I think it is easy to solve this problem , just need to update the difficult change function ,
adjust difficult  100 block  or  adjust difficult per hour,   I think know if any update will case chain fork?
 

[Agent86]

Here is a thread that has identified a means for miners to mine BTS:

https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=3587.msg45111#msg45111

The reality is that people can mine anything and trade it for PTS.   Miners should always mine what is most profitable so they can maximize their ROI.

That said it seems like we could benefit everyone by converting PTS to TaPOS and then allowing those who want to invest by mining to mine one of the other coins out there... NoirShares, DOGE, etc and then buy PTS on BTER.   In fact, making such a move would increase the value of PTS in the long term by 30%.   

What would everyone think about such an idea?

leave NRS out of your nefarious plans Dan. 

In fact, people should mine PTS and trade for NRS,  making such a move would increase the value of NRS in the long term by 30%.

Barwizi,

I'm confused why you seem to want to help the BitShares community (which I appreciate a lot),  but on the other hand, instead of cooperating with the community and the social consensus you released something that can only be viewed as a competitor and try to promote it here.  It's beyond me why you couldn't bear to give a 20% stake to this community for their support when you seem to like this community.

The people mining Noirshares are probably mostly people who troll the altcoin announcements on bitcointalk looking for things to mine early before it hits exchanges and they sell it.  These are the people you decided you prefer to give your shares away to.

Rather than have everyone interested in BitShares downloading your wallet and supporting your efforts and providing feedback, the only way for me to get into NoirShares is to take money away from what I would put into BitShares. So it is competition.

Unless I thought what you are doing is a bigger deal and more valuable to the goals of decentralization then what Invictus/Bitshares is doing, I just can't take support away from them to support you.

Maybe I have misinterpreted your goals and efforts but it feels this way to me.  Again, I appreciate all your attempts to help the community and movement; your decision just confuses me and I feel like it would have been better to cooperate instead of compete.

(Apologies for adding something off subject to this important thread)

[CLains]

Inb4 Adam's raging resurrection. (NXT champion)

Option C seems best from where I'm standing. But unanticipated consequences are dangerous with these moving parts.

I also blame my inability to sleep since falling down the bitcoin rabbit hole. Has anyone found a solution to that "problem" yet or does it only get worse?

From my experience the first 6 months are the worst, with 10x rallies inevitably putting you into a happily excited but dear-god-please-let-it-end-so-I-can-finally-sleep state.

[JoeyD]

I've been searching, but I'm having a hard time figuring out what the Ta in TaPOS stands for.

Judging from the discussion, the idea seems to be to transform the funding/shares-system of PTS into a crypto-coin mining DAC which will payout in one of the I3-shares. Which could be a nice idea and is how I'm currently "mining" BTC with hardware that could not possibly achieve the same reward mining BTC directly.  Having your funding or DACs float on top of the sea of alts could indeed be a nice idea to attract both miners and separate out the risk of (or hedging against) being dependent on a single crypto-coin and evening out the speculation waves.

Keep in mind that this could also backfire if the mining DAC makes no effort to prevent the same disruption being caused to other "coins" as is now troubling PTS-mining. Big multi-coin pools switching coins at the drop of a hat are causing massive disruptions (and community-rage) to many a blockchain of the smaller alt-coins, taking profits when difficulty is low and leaving the dedicated miners with almost insurmountable mining-difficulty and low rewards (dumped coins) after leaving.

EDIT
Ahem, nevermind the TaPOS thing, forget I asked. As punishment I'm rereading Larimer's Whitepaper 3 times, so I shall never dareth forget again. I also blame my inability to sleep since falling down the bitcoin rabbit hole. Has anyone found a solution to that "problem" yet or does it only get worse?

[barwizi]

Here is a thread that has identified a means for miners to mine BTS:

https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=3587.msg45111#msg45111

The reality is that people can mine anything and trade it for PTS.   Miners should always mine what is most profitable so they can maximize their ROI.

That said it seems like we could benefit everyone by converting PTS to TaPOS and then allowing those who want to invest by mining to mine one of the other coins out there... NoirShares, DOGE, etc and then buy PTS on BTER.   In fact, making such a move would increase the value of PTS in the long term by 30%.   

What would everyone think about such an idea?

leave NRS out of your nefarious plans Dan. 

In fact, people should mine PTS and trade for NRS,  making such a move would increase the value of NRS in the long term by 30%.

Arn't your shares mined?   Does it depend upon that mining being profitable?   If that is the case then I see no reason why you would want to discourage people from mining your coin.   I was trying to pump your coin lol... no hard feelings about NRS.

Your mind is too hard to read, doubt i could play chess with you, but thanks for the publicity, the buy support more than trippled. I know you dont hate NRS, you've been secretly mining it 

And yes, we encourage mining it does give value to our currency. Lol, we need to talk about TaPoS.

[onceuponatime]

Option C sounds good to me.

[bytemaster]

...

AGS holders are not diluted by this at all as the value of their 10% is independent of the 10% held by PTS holders.   It will affect the PTS/AGS price ratio, but not the BTC/AGS price ratio. 

On the other hand stopping inflation of PTS and making AGS liquid at the same time may add value to both parties positions and would dramatically simplify the understanding of our ecosystem.  The benefits might be a win for all.   

I think we may have a good plan here if we can get enough community buy-in.

Ok, so to clarify, this proposal is to fork PTS into a TaPOS chain, with a total supply of 4 million, and genesis block consisting of a current PTS snapshot scaled up to 2 million, along with 2 million current AGS state.  Is this correct?

If that's the plan, the question would be how exactly to rework the PTS side of the AGS donations.  Either the daily BTC donation reward could absorb the PTS allocation, or the time frame could be extended.

First of all, this is just a wild idea and not a throughly thought out plan.   But if we were to make such a move we could probably do one of three things:
 
   a) Wait until 200 days of AGS is over.
   b) End AGS early (increasing the value of existing AGS at the expense of necessary funding)
   c) End AGS early and assign unallocated AGS to the development fund as part of the new chain.  As it would now be liquid we could simply sell it into the market rather than auction it like we are doing with AGS.  The proceeds from this sale could then be added to the development fund just as if AGS had continued to auction off the positions.  In fact, we could automate the sale of the AGS payout without changing the auction dynamics at all. 

In the event that PTS were to suffer an attack or 'die' between now and the end of AGS then would simply take a snapshot of the chain.   However, with the plans and things we have in the pipe I doubt the PTS price will remain suppressed for much longer. 

Now lets make one thing clear about this discussion as I know certain individuals abhor any changes.   I want community feedback on any changes with a focus on maximizing value of existing shareholders stake.  If it is not a clear win for everyone then I will not consider it.