Author Topic: A Call to the Truthcoin Prediction Market  (Read 10902 times)

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Offline BldSwtTrs

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Offline mf-tzo

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Re: A Call to the Truthcoin Prediction Market
« Reply #61 on: May 10, 2014, 12:35:18 pm »
As long as there are discussions I am ok! And if there are disagreements it is probably for the best. I just don't want that we ignore such projects...

Offline bytemaster

Re: A Call to the Truthcoin Prediction Market
« Reply #62 on: May 10, 2014, 01:58:57 pm »
We have some design disagreements... but I am OK with that.   With BTC price drop we cannot fund everyone until after our core products are out. 
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Offline tonyk

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Re: A Call to the Truthcoin Prediction Market
« Reply #63 on: May 10, 2014, 02:28:52 pm »
How come? – the AGS account shows huge balances and very little expenses. If you have already dedicated most of the funds you better have a way to show them on the open books. If you have dedicated say 100 K PTS already and you gonna show them only after spending them (sending out the funds) those open books do little to no good.

I will not talk about how those AGS funds could have been much bigger - I have posted long enough posts on the topic before…
Lack of arbitrage is the problem, isn't it. And this 'should' solves it.

Offline santaclause102

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Re: A Call to the Truthcoin Prediction Market
« Reply #64 on: May 10, 2014, 02:53:04 pm »
We have some design disagreements... but I am OK with that.   With BTC price drop we cannot fund everyone until after our core products are out.
Has this been communicated actively?
I appreciate the perspective that it is ok to deviate a bit from one's approach in order to get the synergies of collaboration.
There is value in such a collaboration in itself. It gives credit to Invictus (assym.info. has an acedemic background) and proofs that the social consensus model works which would be a great signal.

Offline bytemaster

Re: A Call to the Truthcoin Prediction Market
« Reply #65 on: May 10, 2014, 09:45:53 pm »
How come? – the AGS account shows huge balances and very little expenses. If you have already dedicated most of the funds you better have a way to show them on the open books. If you have dedicated say 100 K PTS already and you gonna show them only after spending them (sending out the funds) those open books do little to no good.

I will not talk about how those AGS funds could have been much bigger - I have posted long enough posts on the topic before…

Good point, right now the AGS funds are being documented on a cash basis rather than accrual.   The funds have been mostly reserved to keep a development team going for 1 year with some margin for Bitcoin price falling further.   
For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline Bitcoinfan

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Re: A Call to the Truthcoin Prediction Market
« Reply #66 on: May 11, 2014, 04:03:10 pm »
^ truthcoin has already submitted once to hacker news

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Do you know who that is? Because neither Paul or I submitted that to ycombinator.  :) 

Offline tonyk

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Re: A Call to the Truthcoin Prediction Market
« Reply #67 on: June 01, 2014, 01:06:59 am »
How come? – the AGS account shows huge balances and very little expenses. If you have already dedicated most of the funds you better have a way to show them on the open books. If you have dedicated say 100 K PTS already and you gonna show them only after spending them (sending out the funds) those open books do little to no good.

I will not talk about how those AGS funds could have been much bigger - I have posted long enough posts on the topic before…

Good point, right now the AGS funds are being documented on a cash basis rather than accrual.   The funds have been mostly reserved to keep a development team going for 1 year with some margin for Bitcoin price falling further.

680 $/BTC seams a reasonable price to lock/sale ,  like 1/3 of the BTC in the AGS fund, so you feel more secure/not have reasons to not provide funding for very well looking projects. ( I do understand the thought process that funds kept in PTS/BTC are more open to ‘community control’ and you cannot post the $ acc. # you have the funds from the sale, like you can do with BTC or PTS, but it is mostly technicality)
Lack of arbitrage is the problem, isn't it. And this 'should' solves it.

Offline Gentso1

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Re: A Call to the Truthcoin Prediction Market
« Reply #68 on: June 06, 2014, 05:34:20 pm »
How come? – the AGS account shows huge balances and very little expenses. If you have already dedicated most of the funds you better have a way to show them on the open books. If you have dedicated say 100 K PTS already and you gonna show them only after spending them (sending out the funds) those open books do little to no good.

I will not talk about how those AGS funds could have been much bigger - I have posted long enough posts on the topic before…

Good point, right now the AGS funds are being documented on a cash basis rather than accrual.   The funds have been mostly reserved to keep a development
team going for 1 year with some margin for Bitcoin price falling further.

680 $/BTC seams a reasonable price to lock/sale ,  like 1/3 of the BTC in the AGS fund, so you feel more secure/not have reasons to not provide funding for very well looking projects. ( I do understand the thought process that funds kept in PTS/BTC are more open to ‘community control’ and you cannot post the $ acc. # you have the funds from the sale, like you can do with BTC or PTS, but it is mostly technicality)

So with the btc price increase III can keep there reserves and we should be able to give this guy some funding unless there is another issue that has popped up?

Offline CLains

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Re: A Call to the Truthcoin Prediction Market
« Reply #69 on: June 07, 2014, 12:00:59 pm »
Said he had some funds on his own, and seems to want to do a special kind of BTC airdrop, because "its about plugging into the best network."

Aside from the "coins" there are "votecoins" which he wants to distribute to "developers/funders/contributors/etc. But its hardly a settled issue."
"the Votecoins are not "free", one must do the work of Voting (for which you are paid)."

The idea behind seems to be this: "In the ancient past, shareholders did a lot of work, monitoring their corporation and electing its Board and Executive Managers. Today, people just kick back and do nothing. In my opinion, this is the source of much of today's economic failure (huge firms with none of the owners knowing or caring about what's going on)."

http://forum.truthcoin.info/index.php/topic,6.0.html

Offline liondani

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Re: A Call to the Truthcoin Prediction Market
« Reply #70 on: June 07, 2014, 08:05:27 pm »
In my opinion, this is the source of much of today's economic failure (huge firms with none of the owners knowing or caring about what's going on)."

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Offline AsymmetricInformation

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Re: A Call to the Truthcoin Prediction Market
« Reply #71 on: July 16, 2014, 08:25:20 pm »
I just thought I would update everyone:

(1)  Although toast has expressed a desire to bang out a working version of this, he has been severely distracted by BtsX. The tentative arrangement we discussed did involve (at least) 20% of the Vote-ownership (not coin ownership, please see my presentation draft to learn more about this) going to AGS/PTS holders.

(2)  I am still working on Truthcoin in my spare time, and I may hire one or two freelancers to help. If so, I will feel less inclined to give away the ownership at all (as no one has been helping), or I may airdrop to Bitcoin for the superior network effects. In other words, it remains possible that AGS/PTS owners may "miss out" on their chance to own Truthcoin.

(3)  My feeling is that my project would be much simpler and faster to implement than BtsX (my understanding is that toast agrees). My personal opinion is also that it would be more successful. I would probably be happy if Bitsharestalk made a bunch of noise and diverted some developer talent here (or made some noise at Bitcointalk or something). As the project-owner, I unfortunately am in a bad position to make noise, as it appears selfish.

(4)  In general, I'm hoping that the devs at BTS will learn a lot from their BtsX experience and use that for my project.

Offline tonyk

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Re: A Call to the Truthcoin Prediction Market
« Reply #72 on: July 16, 2014, 08:40:55 pm »
....
(3)  My feeling is that my project would be much simpler and faster to implement than BtsX (my understanding is that toast agrees). My personal opinion is also that it [Truthcoin] would be more successful. [than BTS X] ...



I do not know whether to laugh or to cry at such statements...


[EDIT]
 I know it is hard for big brain like yours (according to your measuring stick) to comprehend it but let me try:

If BTS X  happens to be a  success, it will be worth more than anything in the crypto space for now and for the foreseeable future.

If it fails, it will be worth less than the  time you put to come up with the above non-sense … so not a great project to beat,  in that case.


« Last Edit: July 16, 2014, 08:59:42 pm by tonyk »
Lack of arbitrage is the problem, isn't it. And this 'should' solves it.

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Re: A Call to the Truthcoin Prediction Market
« Reply #73 on: July 16, 2014, 08:52:23 pm »

I just thought I would update everyone:

(1)  Although toast has expressed a desire to bang out a working version of this, he has been severely distracted by BtsX. The tentative arrangement we discussed did involve (at least) 20% of the Vote-ownership (not coin ownership, please see my presentation draft to learn more about this) going to AGS/PTS holders.

(2)  I am still working on Truthcoin in my spare time, and I may hire one or two freelancers to help. If so, I will feel less inclined to give away the ownership at all (as no one has been helping), or I may airdrop to Bitcoin for the superior network effects. In other words, it remains possible that AGS/PTS owners may "miss out" on their chance to own Truthcoin.

(3)  My feeling is that my project would be much simpler and faster to implement than BtsX (my understanding is that toast agrees). My personal opinion is also that it would be more successful. I would probably be happy if Bitsharestalk made a bunch of noise and diverted some developer talent here (or made some noise at Bitcointalk or something). As the project-owner, I unfortunately am in a bad position to make noise, as it appears selfish.

(4)  In general, I'm hoping that the devs at BTS will learn a lot from their BtsX experience and use that for my project.

I hope we stick with point 4.  See the post on BitShares Vegas.  How much more rudimentary is that concept compared to Truthcoin? BM and hackfisher expressed interest in it. I think in general there is a great deal of interest in Truthcoin or something like Truthcoin.  tl;dr In general, I want to be included in the share allocation, but I am also deeply interested in the idea


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Offline santaclause102

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Re: A Call to the Truthcoin Prediction Market
« Reply #74 on: July 16, 2014, 10:50:54 pm »
I just thought I would update everyone:

(1)  Although toast has expressed a desire to bang out a working version of this, he has been severely distracted by BtsX. The tentative arrangement we discussed did involve (at least) 20% of the Vote-ownership (not coin ownership, please see my presentation draft to learn more about this) going to AGS/PTS holders.

(2)  I am still working on Truthcoin in my spare time, and I may hire one or two freelancers to help. If so, I will feel less inclined to give away the ownership at all (as no one has been helping), or I may airdrop to Bitcoin for the superior network effects. In other words, it remains possible that AGS/PTS owners may "miss out" on their chance to own Truthcoin.

(3)  My feeling is that my project would be much simpler and faster to implement than BtsX (my understanding is that toast agrees). My personal opinion is also that it would be more successful. I would probably be happy if Bitsharestalk made a bunch of noise and diverted some developer talent here (or made some noise at Bitcointalk or something). As the project-owner, I unfortunately am in a bad position to make noise, as it appears selfish.

(4)  In general, I'm hoping that the devs at BTS will learn a lot from their BtsX experience and use that for my project.

I think it would help if you could summarize how it works. Probably not many people know about the details which matter. Any constructive discussion is appreciated.
I would suggest to summarize truthcoin so as many people as possible can understand it and then have a public discussion with BM on the mumble server.
I guess the crucial question is how truthcoin determines who wins and who loses the bet.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2014, 11:07:14 pm by delulo »