MaidSafe IPO on Mastercoin

[toast]

Great analogy, the flaw is that it's not NintendoCoins but RareWareCoins and BlizzardCoins that are needed to operate the machine. Figuring out how to make the Nintendo machine use coins hasn't worked because people always jailbreak the Nintendo for access to the subscription game services they run on it. What is Nintendo to do in this situation?

[luckybit]

Luckybit I think his issue is that you haven't responded to the claims that safecoin does not grow more valuable with the value added by the maidsafe app layer with any good arguments. There is a specific problem with the economics of safecoin which is the thesis of everyone arguing against it. Can you identify it?

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

Please do tell. I can't figure out how safecoin makes money.

It doesn't "make money" directly. What it does in theory is make resources cheaper than anywhere else based on Moore's law.

It's like for example you're making a chip and if you make billions of chips then the cost goes down pretty fast until those chips become really cheap. Demand for these chips wont go down though, so the end result is everyone can get more for less.

As a user of MaidSafe if it works properly, every user will get more resources for less Safecoins over time. So if that happens, then the Safecoins I got in the presale will always become more useful if and only if MaidSafe is the cheapest, most private, safest place to store data, best place to rent computation, and so on.

Let's say MaidSafe can do BOIC for example, then my Safecoins can buy BOIC processing. If there is a lot of demand for BOIC processing then there will be a lot of demand for Safecoins.

Let's say there are other apps too? If there are more demand for those apps and those apps require Safecoins then there will be more demand for Safecoin. Anyone can make a killer app, charge Safecoins, and then there is more demand for MaidSafe and Safecoin.

MaidSafe is a platform. It's like the Xbox or the Nintendo model. In order to play you have to pay, and you can only pay using their token.

Are you investing in DACs or internet infrastructure? How do you not see "getting the economics" as an extremely difficult problem which is by far the most important one? Our resident guru Dan says even he cannot solve what they didn't and are claiming is not a problem to begin with.

If they were a traditional company making use of their technology I would invest in their stock. But not this DAC. See the difference?



Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

I consider either one a win. Okay say Nintendo releases a console where if I buy these Nintendo coins during the presale then I can play any game Nintendo ever makes if the business model works. These Nintendo coins would be like coins you put into a vending machine only in this case you would have to spend them playing games in the cloud.

In theory of course it could work. In theory the games could be in such demand that the Nintendo coins which are in limited supply are in great demand because the only way to ever again play a Nintendo game is to buy a Nintendo coin. If I've got Nintendo coins during the presale then I would be very happy if that were to happen.

Let's say that doesn't happen and Nintendo releases games which suck. In that case my Nintendo coins wouldn't be in much demand. The whole economic model would begin to break down. The resources wouldn't get cheaper at a fast enough rate so the cloud wouldn't be able to process more or scale up because there wouldn't be enough demand for the content to fuel growth.

These two scenarios show that the success or failure of Nintendo coin depends entirely on demand for the content in the Nintendo platform/cloud. If there is no demand for that content then there will be no demand for Nintendo coin. Game over for Nintendo if that is the case and my Nintendo coins wold be worthless.

The most likely scenario though is that there will be a lot of games I did like, so that even if Nintendo coin fails like the Sega Dreamcast we will have got a lot of great content and that content can always be ported to a better platform later.

[werneo]

Luckybit I think his issue is that you haven't responded to the claims that safecoin does not grow more valuable with the value added by the maidsafe app layer with any good arguments. There is a specific problem with the economics of safecoin which is the thesis of everyone arguing against it. Can you identify it?

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

Please do tell. I can't figure out how safecoin makes money.

[toast]

Are you investing in DACs or internet infrastructure? How do you not see "getting the economics" as an extremely difficult problem which is by far the most important one? Our resident guru Dan says even he cannot solve what they didn't and are claiming is not a problem to begin with.

If they were a traditional company making use of their technology I would invest in their stock. But not this DAC. See the difference?



Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

[luckybit]

‘and theoretically if they can get the economics right it could be very good.’

I thought my last post was as self-explanatory as they get.
Let’s see what you managed to do since then:
-Explained to everyone that 50% off the IPO price is not the cheapest that they can expect to get in...
-And made sure, if anybody was not clear about that (do not ask me how this is possible) that:

Theoretically
if they can get the economics right
it could be very good

How it's presented on paper in theory versus how it's implemented in practice are entirely different. On paper it looks like it will be immensely profitable and the economics look right, but will they make the right decisions in the implementation? No one knows what decisions they will make. No one knows how the governments of the world will react to it or large corporations.

So it's the human error and deviation from what they have on paper that I worry about.
They can have a business plan which is awesome, but you cannot predict or forecast the behavior of the market far in advance. This is why people tend to want short term profits and pump and dump to achieve that.

If you don't want to wait 6 months to a year to see what happens then don't buy Safecoins.

I think if my understanding is right, the goal of MaidSafe is to make the resources on the MaidSafe platform so cheap that they are practically free. Whether or not they can accomplish this is anyone's guess but I think it's theoretically possible if they can make the economics deflationary enough to cause people to go into a farming panic or hysteria similar to what Bitcoin goes into during it's bubbles.

[tonyk]

‘and theoretically if they can get the economics right it could be very good.’

I thought my last post was as self-explanatory as they get.
Let’s see what you managed to do since then:
-Explained to everyone that 50% off the IPO price is not the cheapest that they can expect to get in...
-And made sure, if anybody was not clear about that (do not ask me how this is possible) that:

Theoretically
if they can get the economics right
it could be very good

[toast]

MaidSafe will be as profitable as it is useful. The more people who use it's apps and who use the resources the more valuable safecoins could become.

The claim that this is not the case unless the mechanics behind safecoin itself are changed. Maidsafe and app layer are wonderful, but they have to re-do safecoin in a completely diferrent way (NOT the presale, the different operations you can do at maidsafe network / safecoin network level and their interactions) before safecoin value increases from maidsafe network operations.

You keep pointing at the wrong things as the things that can make safecoin valuable...

[luckybit]

Luckybit I think his issue is that you haven't responded to the claims that safecoin does not grow more valuable with the value added by the maidsafe app layer with any good arguments. There is a specific problem with the economics of safecoin which is the thesis of everyone arguing against it. Can you identify it?

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

I don't think that it's a problem unless people are expecting short term profits. If you buy stock in a corporation like Google for example it's not going to be profitable sometimes for years. Google was losing money for a while and then Ad Sense, they started monetizing Youtube with ads, and now they are profitable.

MaidSafe will be as profitable as it is useful. The more people who use it's apps and who use the resources the more valuable safecoins could become.

But there are too many unknowns right now for me to tell you without a doubt that POR combined with Safecoin is a sure thing. It's sure enough that I personally believe it's a good investment but it doesn't mean I can convince other people that it's a good investment for them.

In 6 months the situation will be more clear.

[toast]

(It's not the presale)

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

[toast]

Luckybit I think his issue is that you haven't responded to the claims that safecoin does not grow more valuable with the value added by the maidsafe app layer with any good arguments. There is a specific problem with the economics of safecoin which is the thesis of everyone arguing against it. Can you identify it?

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

[luckybit]

that wasn't gox coins,  the coins was sent from a bitstamp address... 

Sent from my ALCATEL ONE TOUCH 997D using Tapatalk

Then that settles it. But did one person really send thousands of coins?

The fact that we don't even know for sure what went on with the presale is why people are so skeptical of MaidSafe right now. The only thing I say in my posts is that as a technology it looks very good, and theoretically if they can get the economics right it could be very good.

Just like everyone else, I have to wait and see what is going to happen.

[liondani]

that wasn't gox coins,  the coins was sent from a bitstamp address... 

Sent from my ALCATEL ONE TOUCH 997D using Tapatalk

[luckybit]

Luckybit, MadeSafe can be had today for 50% the IPO price … time to load up some more safecoins, or you can follow my advice and get rid of all shares you have before the price approaches 0…
You may say ‘your pages and pages of posts’ were not a pump up attempt but 80% of those reading them see them this way, anyway. The problem off course is that with each post that is untrue (or a rosy possibility backed by no logic or explanation) you actually helped more and more people see the problems with the path chosen by maidsafe. Most of us liked the general idea at the beginning (and I still do) and some did not give enough thought if this great idea has a chance to work the way maidsafe see it working. You accomplished opening the eyes of your share of people for the not so rosy details of the plan.

It hasn't even been a month and you're talking about this like I'm a short term speculator. Let people dump it because then it's cheaper for people who want to buy it. I am a long term speculator who thinks in months not days.

None of this will matter until after there are apps on MaidSafe which use Safecoins. To me the price of MaidSafeCoins do not matter much right now because nothing is backing it yet. What matters is what the price is 6 months from now when the apps are running. What matters also is what those Safecoins can buy since you need those coins to use certain apps.

If you find yourself wanting to use one of those apps 6 months to a year from now, buy the coins for whatever it costs in 6 months to a year.

My "pages" and "pages" of posts? How many posts? How many words exactly? If you're going to keep count go ahead. If you buy Safecoins thinking you could make a profit in days/weeks then sold them all because someone dumped them then it shows me you don't know what you're doing and should wait a few years before buying any of this stuff. But if you really understand what is at stake, what MaidSafe makes possible, what Bitshares makes possible, there is a massive benefit to getting involved early.

My speculation as to why there might be dumping taking place? Clearly there was market manipulation involved here. I got screwed over just like everyone else.

 MaidSafe presale rumored to have been funded by stolen Gox coins https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=582731.0

What is clearly suspect is someone posted a blockchain.info url showing that stolen Gox coins were sent to MaidSafe's address. I told Bytemaster that they should send it back but Bytemaster said they shouldn't. We don't know what happened with that but it's very likely they kept the coins and sent the Safecoins which I find regrettable if that is the course of action they decided to take. I cannot prove it and haven't checked, but if it played out like that then it would explain the dumping.

Simple explanation, MaidSafe botched their presale. Just because they botched the presale it doesn't mean all the code they wrote, all the technology they developed, all the ideas they have, the community, the supporters, it does not make all of that useless.

It means they were naive, inexperienced, and messed up. They can make up for this in what they decide to do going into the future. At this moment in time most of their funds are tied up in Mastercoins which can't be sold because of low volume and liquidity. They didn't even consider the fact that Mastercoins have too low of a volume and market cap to raise millions of dollars.

As a result the people who sent Bitcoins are the people who actually did the majority of the funding because the majority of the money they can actually spend came from people sending Bitcoins. The people who sent Mastercoins sent money which cannot even be spent right now and for all we know those people just wanted to abandon the Mastercoin ship.

[toast]

The problem of course is that with each post that is untrue (or a rosy possibility backed by no logic or explanation) you actually helped more and more people see the problems with the path chosen by maidsafe. Most of us liked the general idea at the beginning (and I still do) and some did not give enough thought if this great idea has a chance to work the way maidsafe see it working. You accomplished opening the eyes of your share of people for the not so rosy details of the plan.

 
Everyone try this:
Sell your safecoin, wait a week, come back to this thread and read it all, then decide if you want to re-buy. I'll cover your losses if you buy back, and you can give me a little tip from your savings if you decide not to re-buy.

[tonyk]

Luckybit, MadeSafe can be had today for 50% the IPO price … time to load up some more safecoins, or you can follow my advice and get rid of all shares you have before the price approaches 0…
You may say ‘your pages and pages of posts’ were not a pump up attempt but 80% of those reading them see them this way, anyway. The problem off course is that with each post that is untrue (or a rosy possibility backed by no logic or explanation) you actually helped more and more people see the problems with the path chosen by maidsafe. Most of us liked the general idea at the beginning (and I still do) and some did not give enough thought if this great idea has a chance to work the way maidsafe see it working. You accomplished opening the eyes of your share of people for the not so rosy details of the plan.