Author Topic: NXT online wallet  (Read 11640 times)

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Come-from-Beyond

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NXT is clear winner. Bytemaster can't deliver with thousands of BTC what NXT did with 21. It's simple amazing.

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Offline gaba

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Just look where is NXT now just one week later. We are still on whitepapers and angels. Time is ticking.

Offline JoeyD

Nxtforum.org ? also r/NXT at reddit is quit active

Thanks for those links and I also finally found the reason for the cloak and dagger act with their source code on that forum. That is if Come-from-beyond is part of the core team, but judging from his posts he seems to fulfill a pivotal role.  According to him the reason he is (or they are) keeping a tight lid on some of the code, most importantly transparent forging which sounds an awful lot like the delegate system from what I'm reading there, is because he fears cloning/forking and first wants the network effect and node-framework in place before making it public.

Is NXT not getting any shit for that? Just look at what the Invictus team has to put up with and they aren't even locking their share in or keeping secrets like that. Hell they seem to be exceptionally public and outspoken even encouraging people to fork/compete so you'd expect NXT to receive a much bigger public lashing, very odd.

There also seems to be some rather heavy editing/censoring going on over on bitcointalk in favour of keeping the PoW status-quo according to some people on that nxt-forum. Has anyone noticed that happening in the discussions around bitshares-dpos as well?
+5% nice summary.
Plus: compare nxt's IPO with that of 3i. shorter period .. not announced end of donation... just over 70 stake holders .. just a little more the 20 btc (afair)

I expect btsxt and btsx aswell as ptd2 too generate a much bigger buzz. I can remember alot of people not buying nxt because of the 70-people premine scam...


Btw: most dangerous thing currently ongoing with pts to pts2 is my concerns others might call the 15% marketing 'share' a premine (which it basically is)

Plus the biggest no no of them all and one I still think is very very bad, no source code at the time of pre-sale on top of the 70 person premine and flash sale.

About the PTS2 announcement and the need to distribute those 15% remaining coins.
Invictus are definitely not handling PR and community communication as well as they should, I was under the impression that at least 2 team-members were hired for that cause. This confusion needs to be cleared up asap. Also having some celebrity personas utter their apparently completely uninformed/uneducated or unsupported viewpoints,  resulting in some ridiculous claims and statements go (or actively trying to make them go) viral on all the public channels, while Invictus/bitshares leaves those claims out in the open, with answers hidden in posts on often unrelated topics is not helping much either.

Offline xeroc

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Nxtforum.org ? also r/NXT at reddit is quit active

Thanks for those links and I also finally found the reason for the cloak and dagger act with their source code on that forum. That is if Come-from-beyond is part of the core team, but judging from his posts he seems to fulfill a pivotal role.  According to him the reason he is (or they are) keeping a tight lid on some of the code, most importantly transparent forging which sounds an awful lot like the delegate system from what I'm reading there, is because he fears cloning/forking and first wants the network effect and node-framework in place before making it public.

Is NXT not getting any shit for that? Just look at what the Invictus team has to put up with and they aren't even locking their share in or keeping secrets like that. Hell they seem to be exceptionally public and outspoken even encouraging people to fork/compete so you'd expect NXT to receive a much bigger public lashing, very odd.

There also seems to be some rather heavy editing/censoring going on over on bitcointalk in favour of keeping the PoW status-quo according to some people on that nxt-forum. Has anyone noticed that happening in the discussions around bitshares-dpos as well?
+5% nice summary.
Plus: compare nxt's IPO with that of 3i. shorter period .. not announced end of donation... just over 70 stake holders .. just a little more the 20 btc (afair)

I expect btsxt and btsx aswell as ptd2 too generate a much bigger buzz. I can remember alot of people not buying nxt because of the 70-people premine scam...


Btw: most dangerous thing currently ongoing with pts to pts2 is my concerns others might call the 15% marketing 'share' a premine (which it basically is)

Offline JoeyD

Nxtforum.org ? also r/NXT at reddit is quit active

Thanks for those links and I also finally found the reason for the cloak and dagger act with their source code on that forum. That is if Come-from-beyond is part of the core team, but judging from his posts he seems to fulfill a pivotal role.  According to him the reason he is (or they are) keeping a tight lid on some of the code, most importantly transparent forging which sounds an awful lot like the delegate system from what I'm reading there, is because he fears cloning/forking and first wants the network effect and node-framework in place before making it public.

Is NXT not getting any shit for that? Just look at what the Invictus team has to put up with and they aren't even locking their share in or keeping secrets like that. Hell they seem to be exceptionally public and outspoken even encouraging people to fork/compete so you'd expect NXT to receive a much bigger public lashing, very odd.

There also seems to be some rather heavy editing/censoring going on over on bitcointalk in favour of keeping the PoW status-quo according to some people on that nxt-forum. Has anyone noticed that happening in the discussions around bitshares-dpos as well?

Offline gamey

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Well it appears I was spreading FUD.  I remember in the past few days looking at a NXT wiki and seeing links to 0.8.6 and some other previous version.  Perhaps the git repo of JeanLuc was also there, but I didn't realize it was the working git repo.  I've went back now and don't see what I recall previously, (only links to jeanluc's repo).   It wasn't important at all so I didn't put any time into the matter..   Thank you for investigating it JoeyD.
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Offline xeroc

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Nxtforum.org ? also r/NXT at reddit is quit active

Offline JoeyD

JeanLucPicard is from the NXT generation of starships yeah.

I've cloned the git repo, but still was unable to find any comments. I've got a terrible memory so trying to trace around the code and classes is difficult for me and I quickly lose track. Do you happen to know where the nxt-devs hangout and talk shop? Forensic analysis of code is not my forte and even that is quite an understatement.

Offline xeroc

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Afaik JeanLukes repo IS the official one .. he is core dev.
What i do not know is wheather AE is part of the sources ... but my guesa would be yes

Edit: taking a look at the commits shows AE commits .... total sources seem to be open source
« Last Edit: May 21, 2014, 08:01:52 am by xeroc »

Offline JoeyD

Is this supposed to be the open-source code for nxt?

I've looked around a bit and I am worried that I was unable to find a single comment anywhere.  While I know there are people who believe in the maxim of good code speaks for itself and doesn't need comments, I'm not particularly convinced that code is able to convey it's intended purpose or reasoning behind it's design.

I'll dig around a bit more, but you are right that it is hard to find any real information on the source code. I did find a lot of Lego mindstorms code and discussions of people interested in the nxt-code having to receive a personal invitation before being able to get access to the git-repository. I also haven't been able to find the mailing lists or any other place where development discussion is taking place. So, until I'm able to find more, I have to agree with your assessment that NXT is not actually as open-source as I previously believed and my enthusiasm about it has cooled down considerably.

Offline puppies

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It is interesting how the expectations of users vary on here.

I wholeheartedly agree, and it is something which I constantly have to remind myself of.  I don't view bitshares as a way to make money.  I am actually much more interested in the products.  If the derivatives traded on BTSX can ever gain acceptance as a form of payment that would be world shattering.  if .p2p can ensure me that I know who I am talking to online.  If keyhotee can encrypt it without my having to get on the phone to explain to my friends/family how to decrypt it.  If lotto can let me satiate the gambling bug that sometimes comes out.  I like making money as much as the next guy, but I'm much more interested in transacting privately, communicating securely, and I, well I guess gambling.

When Netflix first came out with their streaming media offering I wrote them a letter.  In this letter I explained that I had been pirating for many years.  I explained that i had "stolen" Tens of thousands of dollars of "Intellectual Property" not because I couldn't afford it (although I really couldn't at the time) but because the pirated product was of a higher quality than the purchasable one.  I didn't have to deal with DRM locking up my box, or installing rootkits, or limiting my copy or playback.  I did however have to deal with securing my box from the haxxors, (IMHO an easier feat than managing the DRM malware) and managing my own storage.   Then Netflix came along, and allowed me to stream directly from their servers without having to worry about any of that crap.  I no longer had to watch my hard drive and delete old crap.  I no longer had to worry about if I'd thoroughly vetted sCenE_ReleASe_pRime_TRio_ReloaDED.  I just pressed the fucking button.  And all they wanted for this was $8 a month.  I thought it was a fucking steal.  I wrote them for finally competing against piracy on the quality front.  After that I of course asked them to rethink their entire DRM strategy (cause I can't just pull from buffer) and to include support for Nix boxes, but I think you get the point.    ....Oh the point...

To me Bitshares allows us to compete with all sorts of centralized robbery schemes.  Whether that be government, or multinational conglomerate corporations.  You pick your poison (although I do ask you which you would find more concerning.  having government goons (PD/FBI/ATF/IRS/DEA(and yes I did a bracket within a bracket within a bracket)) or a directTV salesman knocking at your door.)  It allows us to compete in the eyes of the average moron that still believes that Romney vs Obama was an actual choice.

Anyways Apologies /endrant
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Offline JoeyD

I said recent.  By recent I mean any 1.x version of the code. No doubt they have released some code but I do not think it would even work on today's network. 
Damn, I can't believe I missed that. That completely destroys any sympathy I had for the project and I'm very glad you brought that point up. That's another project I had some hope for down the drain.

Do not quote me on that though. That was just my impression after a brief inspection.  So correct me if I'm wrong please.  They're going to make sure that all the currency forks are behind them.  It is not particularly wrong but it really isn't the same as a true open source project. I only bring these things up in defense of bitshares and their model. I think nxt is cool tech just not really competing with bts/pts.
Don't worry I'll do my own research, I try to not make a habit of blaming others for my own mistakes. I'm too tired and strapped for time at the moment, but this one is pretty high up my priorities list now.

I was very enthusiastic about their tech as well, although I'm not very fond of their Java-dependence and single-blockchain-philosophy. I also agree that they are not a competitor for bitshares, I saw them as competitor to projects like Ethereum, mastercoin and counterparty and very much ahead in the game. However if I find that what you said is true then NXT is at best a dead-end in my point of view, and that's putting it very nicely indeed. I'll get back to you, as soon as I find anything. I'm suddenly starting to remember hearing people complain about not being able to find the source-code, white-papers or documentation, so I'm starting to fear that you are right and I was just not paying close enough attention.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2014, 11:27:56 pm by JoeyD »

Offline gamey

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I said recent.  By recent I mean any 1.x version of the code. No doubt they have released some code but I do not think it would even work on today's network. 
Damn, I can't believe I missed that. That completely destroys any sympathy I had for the project and I'm very glad you brought that point up. That's another project I had some hope for down the drain.

Do not quote me on that though. That was just my impression after a brief inspection.  So correct me if I'm wrong please.  They're going to make sure that all the currency forks are behind them.  It is not particularly wrong but it really isn't the same as a true open source project. I only bring these things up in defense of bitshares and their model. I think nxt is cool tech just not really competing with bts/pts.

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Offline JoeyD

I said recent.  By recent I mean any 1.x version of the code. No doubt they have released some code but I do not think it would even work on today's network. 
Damn, I can't believe I missed that. That completely destroys any sympathy I had for the project and I'm very glad you brought that point up. That's another project I had some hope for down the drain.

Offline gamey

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Yes, NXT still has not released any recent source code.  If you would like to look at the code of the AE then AFAIK you are shit out of luck.  (Yes you can decompile it, but one can decompile *ANY* code and that doesn't make it open source.)  Please correct me if wrong.  Atcually I'm not sure how the alternative wallets were made ?  Off published spec?  Anyone know ?

As much as the open source model hurts some, it has come to be expected in crypto-currency world.  Anyone should be able to see why...

NXT's DACs are not DACs by any stretch.  Remove the A and it would be a far closer fit.  I applaud them for that direction, but there is nothing autonomous that I see.
What are you for real, nxt still hasn't opensourced their code?

I admit I didn't look into it, but there was this big announcement and hubbub on the bitcointalk-thread how they had finally released all source-code with 3 major flaws and a bounty for the person who could find them. In the crypto-currency/equity-world for me open-source is fundamental even-though I'm just a white belt in code-fu and I would not be able to find any real flaws, I'd still advise anyone against trusting in security through obscurity. After Snowden that security model has been definitively proven as flawed and unusable. I figured I'd give nxt a little time and see how it would stand up to the scrutiny of the usual peer-review process, but if it is not open-source it should be avoided like the bubonic plague.

EDIT
Very odd though, because bluemeanie was raging on bitcointalk about how Ethereum wasn't opensource and hadn't released any of the real important code proving that their security could work.

I said recent.  By recent I mean any 1.x version of the code. No doubt they have released some code but I do not think it would even work on today's network. 

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