Rest in Peace, DA

[Stan]

OK, the "Rest in Peace, DA" proposal is now off the table and I'm closing this thread.

While it is gratifying to see a few (obviously brilliant) people saw the potential,
It looks like it has failed to reach the necessary level of consensus to move forward.

A missed opportunity to get the max ROI for everyone, in my opinion,
But my opinion does not a consensus make.

See the newest thread for the current default proposal and let's move on to debate the merits of that.

Thanks for everyone's energetic input.

[AdamBLevine]

Wow, Simeon sounds really negative for someone with a stake in this. Have a little patience, people! You might be a billionaire in another year or two, but it's not gonna happen by this time next week! Regarding Stan's use of language, I don't think he's the one that's trying to catch people using a wrong word. He's trying to set the record straight when others twist his words (intentionally or not) into misunderstandings and rumors. If someone in his position is not careful, then pretty soon, these rumors about Invictus' 'promises' spiral out of their control. The last thing they want is people accusing them of over-promising. Goals matter, and Bitshares is aiming to deliver great things.

Billionaire in a year or two? What a joke!
Look around the Bitcoin 2.0 space, is it so hard to convince yourself that BitShares is the least competitive one (well, at least up til now)? I don't mean to say that to hurt this community, but come on! Your optimistic viewpoint should be based on real progress they've made instead of some blind belief, is it?
We should urge 3I to put themselves together and go for the right direction, instead of letting them to lead us by the nose.

Exactly.  Unfortunately you'll find (or at least I have) that if Invictus doesn't agree with you, your opinion doesn't much matter.  If you want to do something they already want to do, that could work. 

Do I have to be dead serious with everything I write? Figure of speech, my friend. Obviously, I do believe Bitshares will be successful. Those other "2.0's" are child's play compared to what this will become: a paradigm changer.

Uh huh

[Simeon II]

I am interested in having a discussion… on the other hand if you want something changed direct your arguments towards them (3I)  and do not lick their hand by unnecessary attacking me for details, that do not matter anyway, as I am not in charge on anything...

[JoeyD]

“What part you do not get?”

I am in no way a god (like Zeus), neither play one (like Stan), so here are some of the things I do not get:

-How 15% dilution after/through 3 years is the same as 15% dilution right now?

-For what reason Invictus should be the owner of said 300K dilution shares.

-How do you ‘good I3 dogs’ think that somebody who has spent, 23K $ for this website: [http://bitshares.org/] will do a great job with the 1 mil of advertising money.



Other concerns here: [link]

Good I3 dogs, eh, if someone is not convinced of your opinion you start calling them names?

Are you even interested in having a conversation and hearing other points of view or not? Nothing is set in stone, no decision has been made yet and nobody was saying Invictus should receive the pts-stake, at least I wasn't.

I've collected my responses in a single post here and I even proposed a good place to spend those 15% coins.

Short version: dpos is now close to operational for the simpler DACS like bitsharesME/DNS/Lotto and PTS. For those new DACs we need a working PTS-chain. PTS needs to be upgraded via hard fork. But if bitshares does not chose to upgrade to dpos now with pts, what kind of message would that send out to the world? They need to upgrade to dpos or lose credibility, so why not now? Switching to proof of stake means that the total amount of coins has to be there from the start, distributing via mining is no longer an option. So now Invictus was asking for suggestions on what to do with those remaining 15% coins, they did not suggest to keep it for themselves.

As for your 15% dilution of PTS, I say you got a free ride on the toolkits and DACS whose development was paid for by AGS-donators and not pts-speculators. You have received way more in value than the percentage amount you are focusing on is telling you. Also because of the AGS donations also by pts-owners, current PTS-holders can no longer fairly claim the right to the remaining 15%.

I agree with you that marketing and websites and even communication and pr have not been handled the best it could have. And like you I also want transparency in expenditures and make sure nobody is running of with the money or not doing the job they are paid for.

However the main goal imo was the development of a toolkit that could enable anyone to go toe to toe with NXT, Ripple, Ethereum you name it even compete with other bitshares chains. You can today run the working test-network with this new and improved dpos system that should be able to compete with all the current tech and that is worth a lot more than 25k and I even venture a lot more than PTS and AGS combined.

Do people realize the idea was not to create a sit on your ass and get rich scheme? DACs will take actual work from the people involved and we have only just started paying for some of the tools. But building the roads and driving the cars will be up to the participants and that will require a lot more funding than the pocket change AGS-funds and PTS-marketcap.

[liondani]

somebody who has spent, 23K $ for this website: [http://bitshares.org/]

It seems to me also to expensive!


PS But to feel better read this: Our goverment's in Greece have spend for some websites more than 1 million euro.... each!!!! 

http://www.alphafm.gr/archives/19587

And the translation here:
https://translate.google.gr/translate?sl=el&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=el&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.alphafm.gr%2Farchives%2F19587&edit-text=&act=url

[Simeon II]

What part do you not get?
 PTS holders now have 100% of the PTS.
After the new PTS 2.0 come to life, they will own 1.65/2 or about 82% of generally the same thing

Either way, PTS would reach 2,000,000 soon anyway (by mining otherwise), so your 82% is going to be the same.

Exactly and also don't forget the 1% inflation after the 2 million would have been reached.

What part do you not get?
 PTS holders now have 100% of the PTS.
After the new PTS 2.0 come to life, they will own 1.65/2 or about 82% of generally the same thing

Either way, PTS would reach 2,000,000 soon anyway (by mining otherwise), so your 82% is going to be the same.

Fair enough for me :-)

i am running in full-t(h)rust mode :-)

  from me as well. I would rather have 15% less shares and this 15% is well spent to create serious media buzz rather than have 15% more on some shares that are constantly lose their value...

What part do you not get?

What part you do not get?

This is great!  Incentivize every customer to recruit 2 or 3 more customers.  Explosive growth.  "Like bacteria in a petri dish."

Plus Stan thinks we are stupid enough to not get this picture, and must be happy because ‘He/I3 will do such great thing with this new money, that we can hardly imagine, the great benefits that wait us’

Fair enough for me :-)

i am running in full-t(h)rust mode :-)

“What part you do not get?”

I am in no way a god (like Zeus), neither play one (like Stan), so here are some of the things I do not get:

-How 15% dilution after/through 3 years is the same as 15% dilution right now?

-For what reason Invictus should be the owner of said 300K dilution shares.

-How do you ‘good I3 dogs’ think that somebody who has spent, 23K $ for this website: [http://bitshares.org/] will do a great job with the 1 mil of advertising money.



Other concerns here: [link]

[liondani]

I want your public opinion  "Decentralized Application". Are you happy now?

https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=4557.msg57452#msg57452

[JoeyD]

What part do you not get?
 PTS holders now have 100% of the PTS.
After the new PTS 2.0 come to life, they will own 1.65/2 or about 82% of generally the same thing

Either way, PTS would reach 2,000,000 soon anyway (by mining otherwise), so your 82% is going to be the same.

Exactly and also don't forget the 1% inflation after the 2 million would have been reached.

[donkeypong]

What part do you not get?
 PTS holders now have 100% of the PTS.
After the new PTS 2.0 come to life, they will own 1.65/2 or about 82% of generally the same thing

Either way, PTS would reach 2,000,000 soon anyway (by mining otherwise), so your 82% is going to be the same.

[mf-tzo]

 

Fair enough for me :-)

i am running in full-t(h)rust mode :-)

  from me as well. I would rather have 15% less shares and this 15% is well spent to create serious media buzz rather than have 15% more on some shares that are constantly lose their value...

What part do you not get?

What part you do not get?

This is great!  Incentivize every customer to recruit 2 or 3 more customers.  Explosive growth.  "Like bacteria in a petri dish."

[xeroc]

Plus Stan thinks we are stupid enough to not get this picture, and must be happy because ‘He/I3 will do such great thing with this new money, that we can hardly imagine, the great benefits that wait us’

Fair enough for me :-)

i am running in full-t(h)rust mode :-)

[Simeon II]

I really don't get what is the frustration here...

Every PTS share holder will now ALSO own a PTS2 share!

The plan is to distribute the remaining PTS to the existing PTS holders and create 2 mil PTS2 which will also be distributed to the existing PTS holders, or I miss understood something?
For every PTS we hold we will get now +15% PTS and 1PTS2? PTS2 will not need any mining and will be liquid?

How on earth can this not be good?

What part do you not get?
 PTS holders now have 100% of the PTS.
After the new PTS 2.0 come to life, they will own 1.65/2 or about 82% of generally the same thing and I3 will grab the rest.
Plus Stan thinks we are stupid enough to not get this picture, and must be happy because ‘He/I3 will do such great thing with this new money, that we can hardly imagine, the great benefits that wait us’

[mf-tzo]

 

This is exactly what I was saying...

Personally I can't wait for PTS2. And I don't care about the extra 15% dividend as long it creates a media buzz!

the 15% should be donated for this kind of marketing. But it should be very transparent so you do not have "premine" accusations, or money for salaries etc... Make a good marketing plan and execute it in a transparent way!

[Stan]

http://youtu.be/vDwzmJpI4io?t=11m40s

This is great!  Incentivize every customer to recruit 2 or 3 more customers.  Explosive growth.  "Like bacteria in a petri dish."

Elon Musk expended ~$60M to do that.

[Agent86]

http://youtu.be/vDwzmJpI4io?t=11m40s