Against PTS2 (naming) and Using the fund in marketing

[bitcoinba]

This marketing situation is becoming a big deal.  When I see this many people talking about it, it is time for the voices to be heard. 

I hope those voices will speak to ways can focus on solutions as much as on blame and fault, however.  Just my two pennies...

 

[fuzzy]

This marketing situation is becoming a big deal.  When I see this many people talking about it, it is time for the voices to be heard. 

I hope those voices will speak to ways can focus on solutions as much as on blame and fault, however.  Just my two pennies... 

[xeroc]

I have to LOL, you are invited?? Who will invite you without Dan? OK, Since you show up and had no intention to commit you are doing a lousy job and keep emphasizing you are doing good, I have to take this little more personal. I apologize in advance.

We all like criticism

1. Look at the community vote https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=4712.0 and you are still insisting to use those stupid huge human picture. It is so hard to find any useful information now. Good job on the 6th version of the site.

Yhea.. that actually sucks as BM himself already made a nice (static-html) webpage which everyone could work on @ github. No idea what the advantages of wordpress are here.

2. This forum has been the most important marketing portal since beginning and you have only 120 posts here, are you really listening to the community voice? Why BM and toast need to spend so much time here educating people and you are nowhere.

That might me unfair. I am no marketing guy but why waste time educating people that are already around in this forum. More important is to educate people that are not! However, I'd really like to see like a 'weekly update' of the mktdirector.

3. Do you even have a bitcointalk account? Have you post anything there introducing/defending bitshares? What I see is you have to pay others to answer the question in BTT and reddit.

BTT is full of shit posts .. Personaly I find it more and more difficult to extract 'usefull(tm)' information from there. Anyway you made a point. I am not sure how much time mktdirector should spend vs. is spending on markting, but BTT probabliy is still a big piece in the picture.

4. You are paying a third party to run the facebook and twitter account. Have a look how many followers there. And how unprofessional they are answering the questions. Isn't it your key job to have a good social media communication?

Google+ also looks bad. :-(

5. Can you present in any conference if Dan is busy? After being as BIG DIRECTOR for 6 months, I don't think you are capable to do that.

I do hope he does not have some real business in hand he kept for secret to get cheap AGS :-( I can remember BM saying sth about a cooperation with maidsafe. Nothing more.

6. How busy are you to need an assistant???

@mkdirector: Have you forgotten about the newsletter, You could at least tell us you opinion about our efforts to create a community version of the newsletter as the last newsletter is several months old!!

Having about 20k AGS myself, I really want to cry when looking at those smiling pics on bitshares.org. Dare you put up a poll to let community determine your salary? Answer the questions or I will keep asking everyday.

Wow .. thats a stake :-) congrats

[DonJoe]

I was invited there by Julian and Ryan,

I have to LOL, you are invited?? Who will invite you without Dan? OK, Since you show up and had no intention to commit you are doing a lousy job and keep emphasizing you are doing good, I have to take this little more personal. I apologize in advance.

1. Look at the community vote https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=4712.0 and you are still insisting to use those stupid huge human picture. It is so hard to find any useful information now. Good job on the 6th version of the site.
2. This forum has been the most important marketing portal since beginning and you have only 120 posts here, are you really listening to the community voice? Why BM and toast need to spend so much time here educating people and you are nowhere.
3. Do you even have a bitcointalk account? Have you post anything there introducing/defending bitshares? What I see is you have to pay others to answer the question in BTT and reddit.
4. You are paying a third party to run the facebook and twitter account. Have a look how many followers there. And how unprofessional they are answering the questions. Isn't it your key job to have a good social media communication?
5. Can you present in any conference if Dan is busy? After being as BIG DIRECTOR for 6 months, I don't think you are capable to do that.
6. How busy are you to need an assistant???
7. Seem someone locked the China operation spend spreadsheet, if you don't want others to see, why would you put a link in the ledger?

Having about 20k AGS myself, I really want to cry when looking at those smiling pics on bitshares.org. Dare you put up a poll to let community determine your salary? Answer the questions or I will keep asking everyday.

[neotheone]

2. It is not DESIGN FLAW of Bitcoin! It's only a matter of implementation. If you guys implement PTS as dynamic difficulty adjustment (like some other altcoins did), PTS wouldn't be like this today. But you are blaming Bitcoin! WTF! DPOS hasn't been proven to work yet! Stan, you're acting like Mark Karpeles here (blaming Bitcoin for transaction malleability).
3. Of course it has to go to somewhere, but it is not for 3I to decide. According to your posts, you still think it's your own money and you're just wait until others get tired to argue with you so that you can control them.

Regarding DPOS exactly the point I made in the stickied thread. Everyone side stepped the question as if it was Vodoo to question Dan's intellect. If he says it works, then ITS ALIVE!!! 

And yep you are never going to get answer to your posts. Hell its easier to ignore people and take the money. AGS was already a bad idea. god knows how it actually passed community scrutiny -- taking 1 PTS = 1 BTS colloquially and changing it to 1 PTS = 1 BTS for you and 1 BTS for I3 -- whoever thought that was brilliant idea -- yeah I know, all for the deep well called development by one person (and so much time spent on finding qualified developers).

Good thing I actually trust people as far as I can throw them and invested only what I could afford to loose.

[jae208]

Just a quick note on St Martin:

I was invited there by Julian and Ryan, who we met at the Texas Bitcion Conference in Austin and spent a good deal of time with while there. They live in St. Martin and regularly hold events on the island. They're hosting an investment seminar for high net worth individuals (some are $100M+ net worth, one is $500M+) where they present investment opportunities in many different industries, and they said BitShares was one of the ideas from the crypto world they wanted to feature at this event.

Also, they are creating a video product from the event which we will get a portion of the earnings from, which likely will more than cover all costs of this trip (and go right back into the budget).  So this likely will be the least expensive trip we've taken when it's all said and done.   I wouldn't have accepted the invitation if I thought it wasn't worth the investment in funds. (I've turned down invitations for the team to go to China, Hong Kong, Australia, etc this year already (we get invites nearly every other week to go to some bitcoin related event accross the globe) and reduced dramatically the number of events we attend and number of team members who go, in order to reduce costs. B

  very impressive indeed

[liondani]

I have read the money expenditure of MSC roughly ,  they only spend 947 BTC so far ,
but III have spended 1319 BTC and 33955 PTS

Which one spend the money most  efficient is more importand!  So I am still happy I invested on bitshares.I can still trust them and have faith on them. That would not be the case with mastercoin...

[xeroc]

[MktDirector]

Just a quick note on St Martin:

I was invited there by Julian and Ryan, who we met at the Texas Bitcion Conference in Austin and spent a good deal of time with while there. They live in St. Martin and regularly hold events on the island. They're hosting an investment seminar for high net worth individuals (some are $100M+ net worth, one is $500M+) where they present investment opportunities in many different industries, and they said BitShares was one of the ideas from the crypto world they wanted to feature at this event.

Also, they are creating a video product from the event which we will get a portion of the earnings from, which likely will more than cover all costs of this trip (and go right back into the budget).  So this likely will be the least expensive trip we've taken when it's all said and done.   I wouldn't have accepted the invitation if I thought it wasn't worth the investment in funds. (I've turned down invitations for the team to go to China, Hong Kong, Australia, etc this year already (we get invites nearly every other week to go to some bitcoin related event accross the globe) and reduced dramatically the number of events we attend and number of team members who go, in order to reduce costs. B

[JoeyD]

2. It is not DESIGN FLAW of Bitcoin! It's only a matter of implementation. If you guys implement PTS as dynamic difficulty adjustment (like some other altcoins did), PTS wouldn't be like this today. But you are blaming Bitcoin! WTF! DPOS hasn't been proven to work yet! Stan, you're acting like Mark Karpeles here (blaming Bitcoin for transaction malleability).

I'm not trying to make light of your concerns or your other points, but in your quote you actually prove Stans point as the truth. If it is a matter of implementation it really is a design flaw and this flaw actually needs a hard fork as well, contrary to the malleability Karpeles fiasco (transaction malleabillity btw is still not really fixed and how long has that been on the todolist, so even that bug supports Invictus claims of bugs and development taking time). Hard forks are not easy and would require time and effort from the bitshares team at the cost of using that time and effort for the products you actually want. I don't believe you are interested in a better PoW-PTS all that much.

There also seems to be this rumor going around that PoW would have worked for bitsharesX and that the reason bitsharesX is late is because Daniel stubbornly wanted to go with PoS. The one who told you that rumor was lying to you. PoW was not a viable option for a prediction market and could not be fixed. PoW is not as "proven" as a one size fits all solution as many seem to think and does not magically make all things possible or easier to develop. I'm not saying that dpos is not experimental, but that doesn't make PoW better or faster in any way.

The simple basic version of bitsharesXT(est) that they expected to be able to release at the announced time had previously undiscovered flaws and was nowhere near as fully featured as the current version in development. Even if things had gone the way you expected and the basic network would have theoretically gone live at that time, then that would still mean invictus would have had to maintain and deliver support for that crappy version, while simultaneously still needing to develop the exact same thing they are doing now, plus design a hard-fork upgrade path to that new version. Even in that ideal theoretical world it would have resulted in a lot more problems with a far inferior product for a far longer period in time.

[Simeon II]

I have been following the project since Oct last year and was mining from day 1 on Nov. 5th. After half and year, I saw I3 is veryvery good in collecting money and all the product is PTS and a large forum. And now you want to take the other 360k PTS? Are you short of funding to travel to St. Martin?? Can anyone tell me who is using the AGS money travel to St. Martin??? Why the current AGS funding is spending on worthless website refinement and unnecessary staff but not paying to Peter Todd or Sergio to review the code and suggestion?

PTS is really slow now because the difficulty is not adjusted every block. It is design flaw, not the fault of miner. I can only see all the miners now are very loyal and should be rewarded. Other coins are talking pre-mine from genesis block, but I3 is taking it at the end. Sounds bad, but truth, isn't it?

1. Our executive team has been invited to attend a meeting of venture capitalists in St Martin who indicated an interest in funding the BitShares ecosystem.  They are even reimbursing many of the expenses.

2.  PTS was based on BTC code.  This code has the design flaw you mention.  This is why we propose to upgrade to a DPOS variant.

3.  Upgrading to DPOS frees up the money previously allocated for miners which will no longer be needed.  This has to go somewhere, even by default.  That is what we are discussing with this community.

4.  We pay for as much time as Sergio is able to give us.

5.  Giving away crypto-assets via various spigot mechanisms is common.  We are proposing targeted give-aways for which there are hundreds of industry examples.

6.  These are companies, not currencies - there is no stigma to companies figuring out their share allocations in advance and reserving some shares for future needs.  The term pre-mining has no meaning in this domain.

1. Please show us the evidence!
2. It is not DESIGN FLAW of Bitcoin! It's only a matter of implementation. If you guys implement PTS as dynamic difficulty adjustment (like some other altcoins did), PTS wouldn't be like this today. But you are blaming Bitcoin! WTF! DPOS hasn't been proven to work yet! Stan, you're acting like Mark Karpeles here (blaming Bitcoin for transaction malleability).
3. Of course it has to go to somewhere, but it is not for 3I to decide. According to your posts, you still think it's your own money and you're just wait until others get tired to argue with you so that you can control them.
4. .
5. Would you mind provide one of such examples?
6.
7. Is it so hard for you and 3I to admit that you were doing a bad job, instead of using all the twists and turns to obfuscate the real issue here? Until you admit you are wrong, I don't think you have what it takes to make BitShares a success.
8. And, most importantly. Please reply to me regarding all the concerns I have. I am your big investors! I invest real money into 3I. As the saying goes, "People should be responsible for their own investment", but it doesn't mean that you guys can fuck me all over and there's nothing I can do about it!

[jae208]

I have been following the project since Oct last year and was mining from day 1 on Nov. 5th. After half and year, I saw I3 is veryvery good in collecting money and all the product is PTS and a large forum. And now you want to take the other 360k PTS? Are you short of funding to travel to St. Martin?? Can anyone tell me who is using the AGS money travel to St. Martin??? Why the current AGS funding is spending on worthless website refinement and unnecessary staff but not paying to Peter Todd or Sergio to review the code and suggestion?

PTS is really slow now because the difficulty is not adjusted every block. It is design flaw, not the fault of miner. I can only see all the miners now are very loyal and should be rewarded. Other coins are talking pre-mine from genesis block, but I3 is taking it at the end. Sounds bad, but truth, isn't it?

1. Our executive team has been invited to attend a meeting of venture capitalists in St Martin who indicated an interest in funding the BitShares ecosystem.  They are even reimbursing many of the expenses.

2.  PTS was based on BTC code.  This code has the design flaw you mention.  This is why we propose to upgrade to a DPOS variant.

3.  Upgrading to DPOS frees up the money previously allocated for miners which will no longer be needed.  This has to go somewhere, even by default.  That is what we are discussing with this community.

4.  We pay for as much time as Sergio is able to give us.

5.  Giving away crypto-assets via various spigot mechanisms is common.  We are proposing targeted give-aways for which there are hundreds of industry examples.

6.  These are companies, not currencies - there is no stigma to companies figuring out their share allocations in advance and reserving some shares for future needs.  The term pre-mining has no meaning in this domain.

1. Please show us the evidence!
2. It is not DESIGN FLAW of Bitcoin! It's only a matter of implementation. If you guys implement PTS as dynamic difficulty adjustment (like some other altcoins did), PTS wouldn't be like this today. But you are blaming Bitcoin! WTF! DPOS hasn't been proven to work yet! Stan, you're acting like Mark Karpeles here (blaming Bitcoin for transaction malleability).
3. Of course it has to go to somewhere, but it is not for 3I to decide. According to your posts, you still think it's your own money and you're just wait until others get tired to argue with you so that you can control them.
4. .
5. Would you mind provide one of such examples?
6.
7. Is it so hard for you and 3I to admit that you were doing a bad job, instead of using all the twists and turns to obfuscate the real issue here? Until you admit you are wrong, I don't think you have what it takes to make BitShares a success.
8. And, most importantly. Please reply to me regarding all the concerns I have. I am your big investors! I invest real money into 3I. As the saying goes, "People should be responsible for their own investment", but it doesn't mean that you guys can fuck me all over and there's nothing I can do about it!

 

[leeyt]

Surpporting


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[leeyt]

I am touched by this :{
9.  We have promised to build an industry.  No one else is attempting that.  It is far more complicated than you can possibly imagine.  To those who donated, we promised to use them to advance that industry to the very best of our ability.  Those who are patient will still be here with us to reap the rewards.   
}
So,we are all support i3!


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[Snail]

Please keep BM healthy, push him to bed if necessary