Author Topic: Number of Bitshares X at launch  (Read 20533 times)

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Offline toast

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First chain is 50/50 with no dilution. Afterwards, you should expect to see many chains with different dilution strategies.

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Offline pendragon3

Does the delegate pay under the targeted scheme seem just a *little* high??

Giving delegates 44% of supply in the first year alone and nearly doubling initial supply in the first year doesn't seem so good :( As a potential investor in Bitshares, I'd be shocked and disappointed if this were the case.

Hey, paying delegates for their services is good, but it's easy to cross the line into overpaying. Then shareholders, who should be the true beneficiaries of the transaction fees, will be shafted. Bitshares would be definitely getting a ton of flak by the broader community for being unfair and not living up to its own goal of placing the dividends in the hands of shareholders. It would cause a LOT of internal strife not to mention rent-seeking  :-[

Delegates are like the board of directors. You want to pay them a modest amount, but not too much. Many soon to be delegates already have the AGS, PTS incentives to make them want to help the network, so not paying them crazy amounts shouldn't make this "secret weapon" less effective to any significant degree.

Early on In the Bitshares.org video: "but what if you could remove those expenses, and give the money saved to the shareholders?" If Bitshares doesn't live up to that vision, it will be shunned, collapse under its greed, and fail.

I think deflation or steady pay schemes are the only way to go. For the foreseeable future, delegates should not earn but a fraction of the fees for doing their job.

Offline bytemaster

The maximum share supply is dictated by the largest power of 10 less than 2^63 which is 1 Quadrillian.   1,000,000,000,000,000
The initial share supply was selected to be 10,000,000,000,000 in satoshies... 1% of the maximum supply.
The initial share precision was selected to be 1,000,000.

This makes representation of the initial share supply to be:

10,000,000.000000 or 10 million

There are several potential dilution strategies:
1) Deflation (delegates paid a fraction of fees)
2) Steady State (delegates paid 100% of fees)
3) Steady Pay (minimal dilution) (delegates receive pay equal to the minimum transaction fees in a full block regardless of actual transaction fees.
4) Targeted Growth  (delegates paid X% of the difference between current shares and maximum shares at any given point in time.

Under the Targeted Growth model I would suggest that the Initial Shares equal 20% of the Maximum Shares so that AGS/PTS holders are never diluted beyond 20%. 

Code: [Select]
Initial Share Supply          200,000,000.000000
Maximum Share Supply        1,000,000,000.000000
First Year Delegate Pay:      160,000,000.000000  (~1,600,000 per delegate on average (0.44%))
End First Year Total Supply   360,000,000.000000
Second Year Delegate Pay:     128,000,000.000000  (~1,280,000 per delegate on average (0.26%))
End Second Year Total Supply  488,000,000.000000

After 10 years the supply will be 860,000,000.00000

Under these plans, the price of a "share" when the market cap equals bitcoin would be ~5% of bitcoins share price or less.  We can adjust the precision as necessary.  I could see starting out with 20 billion and having 4 decimal places, this would cause the shares to be priced around $1 at bitcoins market cap.   

These are just ideas. 
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Offline mf-tzo

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I would say 1 or 4 billion...

eventually the target should be to reach at least 1 billion market cap once we get massive adoption and after that the moon...
$1 per btsX.


Offline bitcoinerS

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Maybe Bitshares X would someday be successful and get to $10, $50, $100+ price range, but trying to start at that level at launch with only 4 million shares is not a smart move.

I vote for somewhere in the range of 100 million to 1 billion shares of X at launch.

I agree.
>>> approve bitcoiners

Offline liondani

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I vote this as one of the top 3 most useless topics ever! (15 post in the topic min.)

Here is a true story (If you do not believe it I would not blame you cause I believe the story only because I know the guy; let’s cam him Tim)


So Tim is answering the phone at a pizza place:
Lady customer: “ I am having a party, I would like to know how many people one large pizza feeds?”
Tim: “ 3 to 4.”
Lady customer: “How about if you cut the pizza in squares?”

theoretical it didn't matter how much coins will came out...
practical it will.

Think about the total number of BTS will be for example 1000 coins...

Offline sfinder

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LOL.

partially agree with u but working out a good strategy will increase user acceptance

I vote this as one of the top 3 most useless topics ever! (15 post in the topic min.)

Here is a true story (If you do not believe it I would not blame you cause I believe the story only because I know the guy; let’s cam him Tim)


So Tim is answering the phone at a pizza place:
Lady customer: “ I am having a party, I would like to know how many people one large pizza feeds?”
Tim: “ 3 to 4.”
Lady customer: “How about if you cut the pizza in squares?”
微博:星在飘我在找|BTS X 受托人delegate ID:baidu
中国教育书店合作将20%收入捐献给贫困山区学生。
Cooperating with China Education Bookstore and will donate 20% of delegate income to the poor students

Offline tonyk

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Very interesting!

Here is a true story (If you do not believe it I would not blame you cause I believe the story only because I know the guy; let’s cam him Tim)


So Tim is answering the phone at a pizza place:
Lady customer: “ I am having a party, I would like to know how many people one large pizza feeds?”
Tim: “ 3 to 4.”
Lady customer: “How about if you cut the pizza in squares?”
« Last Edit: June 23, 2014, 01:01:27 am by tonyk »
Lack of arbitrage is the problem, isn't it. And this 'should' solves it.

Offline sfinder

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I vote for 4 mio XT as originally proposed .. and maybe 400mio bitsharesX at launch!

there will  be slightly less than 4 million bitsharesX at lunch due to 1 to1 allocation for xts/bts and some xts will be destroyed for transaction fee 
微博:星在飘我在找|BTS X 受托人delegate ID:baidu
中国教育书店合作将20%收入捐献给贫困山区学生。
Cooperating with China Education Bookstore and will donate 20% of delegate income to the poor students

Offline xeroc

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I vote for 4 mio XT as originally proposed .. and maybe 400mio bitsharesX at launch!

Offline pendragon3

I am undecided please convince me of either way.

+ More BitShares X easier invest. Instead of buying 0.00001, you can buy 1 and it can be seen a less risky option. (DogeCoin)
+ Less BitShares X increases value due the limited amount and speculation.  (Bitcoin)
+ Both are limited regardless.
+ With More BitShares X 1 = 1$ you can mentally calculate investment or trades in assets.


The argument for NOT using 4 million shares is very simple.

With only 4 million at launch, you're going to create liquidity problems and also cut down participation.
If the starting price is $20, $50, $100, whatever, right off the bat, Bitshares X will have the 2nd highest price on coinmarketcap, which will turn away a lot of possible investors. Then the little guy is going to think, "Man, how much higher can it go? I'm better off buying one of the other altcoins for $0.10. I'll have a better chance at doubling my price, or making a better % return." Most people don't think too much about market cap, they only look at share price and % return.

One of the things people are saying here is that it's important to get critical mass & wide participation, especiAlly from non-crypto folks, not just crypto geeks. I'm telling you, that will be much harder if the starting price at launch is too high. The launch should be the marketing, distribution, awareness, liquidity phase. Crypto folks and People new to crypto will be much more likely to test the water if the price per share of X early on is not too high. Plus, these non-crypto folks are especially important because they can spread the word better to people who don't already know about btc/Bitshares.

Sure, Bitcoin has a price in the $100s, but it was not always so. Bitcoin started in the sub-pennies, just like most new coins do today. How many other coins are above even $10? Maybe Bitshares X would someday be successful and get to $10, $50, $100+ price range, but trying to start at that level at launch with only 4 million shares is not a smart move.

I vote for somewhere in the range of 100 million to 1 billion shares of X at launch.

Offline liondani

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The average for the top 5 coins are about 200 millions.
The average for the top 10 coins are about 25 billions.
The average for the top 20 coins are about 12 billions.

On the other side we can go like NXT to 1 billion too because it is right now the more succesfull coin that has simmilar futures with bitshares and it would be great to make better comparisons with each other's prices...

I vote for 1 billion too...

Offline JA

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I have an idea...  we take the top 10 or 20 coins with the largest market cap (because they are for a reason the best) and we calculate the average coins they have and we pick a number near this average...

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good idea  +5%
should be about 30+ billion
« Last Edit: June 22, 2014, 12:25:49 pm by jabbajabba »

Offline liondani

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I have an idea...  we take the top 10 or 20 coins with the largest market cap (because they are for a reason the best) and we calculate the average coins they have and we pick a number near this average...

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Offline cdryan

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