Author Topic: Number of Bitshares X at launch  (Read 26904 times)

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Offline bytemaster

You want to put the BTS completely fragmented?!
Quote
For this reason we have decided to recommend that all future chains based upon the concept behind BitShares X be initialized with a snapshot (100%) of the state of BitShares XT around the time of their launch.

Key word here is initialized with snapshot. All chains BM plans to make will still do this. Some will print new shares because he thinks that will make that chain more likely to be worth more overall. Some will not to appease investors. In either case, you have a stake in them all.

I'll make a few chains too, some initialized with some shares to the altcoins that'll be traded on them, some airdropped on real-world organizations (partnerships with traditional businesses). Whatever.

You have stake in them all.

Shall I point you to the original whitepaper from fall 2013 which describes this as a multi-chain project? That's the point, there is not one chain. The network effect is in the bitassets.

This is correct for BTS X.... each set of BitAssets will have its own chain for scalability reasons.    When I stated that I would like to see 1 chain, that is only initially so we can gain some growth.   
For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline alt

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Thanks for the quote on what I was recommending at the time.   As I am merely making recommendations I am free to express opinions and allow those opinions to change as a result of debate and discussion.   

I have a duty to the truth first and foremost and I will always try to express that truth to the best of my understanding.   So what would you have me do at this point:

1) Refuse to acknowledge past mistakes and continue to recommend something I think is against shareholder interest
2) State what I believe is a better approach while still recognizing that many individuals were betting on the original approach.

I prefer to let the market sort things out (and it will). 

So I strongly support giving everyone exactly what the originally expected and I strongly recommend that people adopt an improved model.
+5%,  for find the best way.
but I haven't  got it, why give 80% to delegate is better than now.

Offline bytemaster

You want to put the BTS completely fragmented?!
Quote
For this reason we have decided to recommend that all future chains based upon the concept behind BitShares X be initialized with a snapshot (100%) of the state of BitShares XT around the time of their launch.

Key word here is initialized with snapshot. All chains BM plans to make will still do this. Some will print new shares because he thinks that will make that chain more likely to be worth more overall. Some will not to appease investors. In either case, you have a stake in them all.

I'll make a few chains too, some initialized with some shares to the altcoins that'll be traded on them, some airdropped on real-world organizations (partnerships with traditional businesses). Whatever.

You have stake in them all.

No we don't want things fragmented and that is the real challenge in all of this.   The only way to make 'everyone happy' is to have 100 customized chains to exactly what they want.... or we will have a large number of detractors for any compromise or change in plans.

What I would really like to see is this:

1) A single chain that upgrades over time and adds new features supported via the dilution method once this chain gains traction then clones can pop up on their own to compete.

The challenges with this approach is:

1) Not everyone supports the dilution approach
2) How do you handle different snapshot dates

So we are stuck with figuring out how to give everyone what they want and market fragmentation / competition will be the result.  If someone can build a large alliance around a particular approach then they will be successful. 


For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline toast

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You want to put the BTS completely fragmented?!
Quote
For this reason we have decided to recommend that all future chains based upon the concept behind BitShares X be initialized with a snapshot (100%) of the state of BitShares XT around the time of their launch.

Key word here is initialized with snapshot. All chains BM plans to make will still do this. Some will print new shares because he thinks that will make that chain more likely to be worth more overall. Some will not to appease investors. In either case, you have a stake in them all.

I'll make a few chains too, some initialized with some shares to the altcoins that'll be traded on them, some airdropped on real-world organizations (partnerships with traditional businesses). Whatever.

You have stake in them all.

Shall I point you to the original whitepaper from fall 2013 which describes this as a multi-chain project? That's the point, there is not one chain. The network effect is in the bitassets.
Do not use this post as information for making any important decisions. The only agreements I ever make are informal and non-binding. Take the same precautions as when dealing with a compromised account, scammer, sockpuppet, etc.

Offline 天籁

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You want to put the BTS completely fragmented?!My God!
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For this reason we have decided to recommend that all future chains based upon the concept behind BitShares X be initialized with a snapshot (100%) of the state of BitShares XT around the time of their launch.

Key word here is initialized with snapshot. All chains BM plans to make will still do this. Some will print new shares because he thinks that will make that chain more likely to be worth more overall. Some will not to appease investors. In either case, you have a stake in them all.

I'll make a few chains too, some initialized with some shares to the altcoins that'll be traded on them, some airdropped on real-world organizations (partnerships with traditional businesses). Whatever.

You have stake in them all.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2014, 02:05:26 am by 天籁 »

Offline toast

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Quote
For this reason we have decided to recommend that all future chains based upon the concept behind BitShares X be initialized with a snapshot (100%) of the state of BitShares XT around the time of their launch.

Key word here is initialized with snapshot. All chains BM plans to make will still do this. Some will print new shares because he thinks that will make that chain more likely to be worth more overall. Some will not to appease investors. In either case, you have a stake in them all.

I'll make a few chains too, some initialized with some shares to the altcoins that'll be traded on them, some airdropped on real-world organizations (partnerships with traditional businesses). Whatever.

You have stake in them all.
Do not use this post as information for making any important decisions. The only agreements I ever make are informal and non-binding. Take the same precautions as when dealing with a compromised account, scammer, sockpuppet, etc.

Offline bytemaster

Thanks for the quote on what I was recommending at the time.   As I am merely making recommendations I am free to express opinions and allow those opinions to change as a result of debate and discussion.   

I have a duty to the truth first and foremost and I will always try to express that truth to the best of my understanding.   So what would you have me do at this point:

1) Refuse to acknowledge past mistakes and continue to recommend something I think is against shareholder interest
2) State what I believe is a better approach while still recognizing that many individuals were betting on the original approach.

I prefer to let the market sort things out (and it will). 

So I strongly support giving everyone exactly what the originally expected and I strongly recommend that people adopt an improved model. 
For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline bodenliu

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Toast, which chain is the future chain you refer to? Final btsx chain?

There will be *many* X chains. At least one of them will have 50/50 without dilution.

what is this suppose to mean? We need a clear and official clarification of this.

Does this stickied topic help?
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=2940.0

that topic is exactly what I believe it should be. see the fourth paragraph:

Quote
If our goal is to see the value of BitShares XT to grow then we need to future-proof peoples investment in BitShares XT after launch against being devalued by one of our planned upgrades or the flood of variants with different assets.   For this reason we have decided to recommend that all future chains based upon the concept behind BitShares X be initialized with a snapshot (100%) of the state of BitShares XT around the time of their launch.   Thus the primary vehicle for investing in future BitShares X chains will be to own BitShares XT.... likewise, chains that are variants of BitShares XI or XV should honor their parent with 100% stake.     

if they are all 100%, how come  "At least one of them will have 50/50 without dilution."

Or, only if the "many X chains" you said refers to other DACs besides "Bank&Exchange" BTS X chain, that will make sense to me...
« Last Edit: June 23, 2014, 01:52:42 am by bodenliu »

Offline toast

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Toast, which chain is the future chain you refer to? Final btsx chain?

There will be *many* X chains. At least one of them will have 50/50 without dilution.

what is this suppose to mean? We need a clear and official clarification of this.

Does this stickied topic help?
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=2940.0
Do not use this post as information for making any important decisions. The only agreements I ever make are informal and non-binding. Take the same precautions as when dealing with a compromised account, scammer, sockpuppet, etc.

lzr1900

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I think before you bring the profit for early investors , you have no reason to cut down the shares you promised. we have been waiting for 6 months and get nothing, I have lost my patience. now, this make me lose heart with 3I.
+5%!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  iii you damn evil!we have wait for 6 months!

Offline bodenliu

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Toast, which chain is the future chain you refer to? Final btsx chain?

There will be *many* X chains. At least one of them will have 50/50 without dilution.

what is this suppose to mean? We need a clear and official clarification of this.

Offline yinchanggong

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I think before you bring the profit for early investors , you have no reason to cut down the shares you promised. we have been waiting for 6 months and get nothing, I have lost my patience. now, this make me lose heart with 3I.
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Offline bytemaster

There are arguments both ways.  When used as a currency pricing everything in .01xx BTC is very confusing for users.   They would rather see a price of 1000 than .01.   

I think it is very difficult to use things when the price is .000x so I tend to favor larger numbers vs smaller numbers.

I merely pointed out there are many ways that these systems can be deployed.  I want the shareholders in control (not me) and clearly there is a large contingent here in these forums that are anti dilution and pro-deflation because that is what we were promoting this whole time.  So these individuals are due the product they want and invested in.

In my opinion, other DACs should allocate a large chunk to for future growth and development and this chunk should be managed by delegates as elected by the initial shareholders.
For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline luckybit

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I am undecided please convince me of either way.

+ More BitShares X easier invest. Instead of buying 0.00001, you can buy 1 and it can be seen a less risky option. (DogeCoin)
+ Less BitShares X increases value due the limited amount and speculation.  (Bitcoin)
+ Both are limited regardless.
+ With More BitShares X 1 = 1$ you can mentally calculate investment or trades in assets.

If you go with 4 million or 8 million for instance then you can easily create a stock split effect by switching it over with a client upgrade. The proportions are the same so it makes no difference what we go with initially.

I prefer 4 million because then we know it will be over $1 at least and can reach $100. If people start thinking its too expensive (which makes no sense because people don't think that way about shares or assets like gold), then we could take a snapshot and switch it to 40 million, then 400 million, then 4 billion, then 400 billion.

The proportions don't change and the snapshot process allows this. 
« Last Edit: June 23, 2014, 01:07:06 am by luckybit »
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Offline cryptkeeper

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