My friends, gather closely.

[Simeon II]

I wouldn't think anything of it without the back-story but there does seem to at least be the potential for corporate sabotage 101 in this thread.

If you wanted to seriously damage BitShares your best bet would be to try to influence BitShares into doing something with one product that could severely damage the credibility & ethics of the whole brand...

The Nxt team got two of the three right, but succumbed to greed for the distribution. Ironically, if they had simply given the coin away via a snapshot distribution and bought up cheap coins during the initial launch, then they probably would have had similarly sized stakes without any fairness fallout. This action would have also created the perception of demand for Nxt, combined with clever marketing, could have made it a legitimate contender to replace bitcoin (and why not, roger will still have a lot of Nxt).

Find a wealthy benefactor to bootstrap the development and to set a price floor during the launch of the coin receiving 50 percent of the developer's stake as collateral. Seems like a pretty easy way to bootstrap a legitimate competitor of bitcoin.

. Which they wouldn't.
Both those seem to involve suggestions for potentially deceiving the market via potential price or perceived fairness manipulation. Obviously that would be a PR trap/nightmare if there was any indication BitShares used and perhaps even contemplated them as a strategy
But in future when there are fair share-drops and high natural valuations, if enough people respond positively to other parts of Charle's ideas in this thread then it may be enough to for detractors to link back to,  to suggest that BitShares has seriously considered and therefore may be going about business in an underhanded way. ('They're only doing sharedrops to be perceived as fair and then buying up big stakes for nearly free', or that the 'DAC's have high prices because BitShares has whales artificially supporting them'  etc.)

It's probably nothing, but then again it could be...




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5rRZdiu1UE (Just the Beasties boys sabotage song)

Both those seem to involve suggestions for potentially deceiving the market via potential price or perceived fairness manipulation. Obviously that would be a PR trap/nightmare if there was any indication BitShares used and perhaps even contemplated them as a strategy


What the hell are you talking about?
You just publicly say – We strongly believe in the value of our company. To prove that we will use up to that and that dollar amount to buy back our shares from everybody willing to sell.
What PR nightmare?

[charleshoskinson]

I think Charles is pushing something that would severely distract from the roll out plan and short term vision

Lol, you guys are funny. I was merely exploring the idea of a second team funded from an investor building a new coin based upon DPOS and Titan tech as a way to independently test the underlying technology

Wealthy benefactor here lost me....why a wealthy benefactor for a coin that could be launched without any such ties?

It's an investment in a sense. Make a loan of say 500k to a new development team with some terms similar to a convertible bond. Either the team repays the principle with interest or surrenders 50 percent of their stake in the new currency.

Charles have you invested in the Bts ecosystem?  Last you mentioned it, you had no dog in the fight. I don't like backseat driving, but I much less prefer back seat driving from someone not in the car than from a passenger. 

If you're a concerned investor let us know

I have no investment in the Bitshares ecosystem.

How do you determine which bitcoin, litecoin, nxt, mastercoin or counterparty holders want it if you don't make them prove their interest?

They suddenly have an asset with real market value. Combined with some hype generated from a marketing surge promoting the new technology and strength of the team, you'd probably create more demand than available supply. 

Both those seem to involve suggestions for potentially deceiving the market via potential price or perceived fairness manipulation. Obviously that would be a PR trap/nightmare if there was any indication BitShares used and perhaps even contemplated them as a strategy. Which they wouldn't.

Deceiving the market by convincing someone to take a long position? You're very funny. There would initially be a large supply of the new currency on the market given the distribution mechanism proposed. The price floor idea is to have a buyer agree to soak up the supply because he or she believes in the fundamentals of the currency. This act would prevent a death spiral from the initial sell-off. Eventually the surplus supply would clear and if marketing is properly done, demand will rapidly pick up.

Any bullshit share drop  distribution will be looked at as a negative down the road

I'm inclined to disagree. One of the largest barriers to adoption for a new currency is that the incumbency have little or no incentive to move unless an event forces them out of the ecosystem like ASICs did to the GPU miners- who then moved to Litecoin creating the price surge. The idea of giving bitcoin, et all holders a stake is that they now feel less threaten with the rise of a new currency- they own some of it.   

[Empirical1]

I think Charles is pushing something that would severely distract from the roll out plan and short term vision


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I wouldn't think anything of it without the back-story but there does seem to at least be the potential for corporate sabotage 101 in this thread.

If you wanted to seriously damage BitShares your best bet would be to try to influence BitShares into doing something with one product that could severely damage the credibility & ethics of the whole brand...

The Nxt team got two of the three right, but succumbed to greed for the distribution. Ironically, if they had simply given the coin away via a snapshot distribution and bought up cheap coins during the initial launch, then they probably would have had similarly sized stakes without any fairness fallout. This action would have also created the perception of demand for Nxt, combined with clever marketing, could have made it a legitimate contender to replace bitcoin (and why not, roger will still have a lot of Nxt).

Find a wealthy benefactor to bootstrap the development and to set a price floor during the launch of the coin receiving 50 percent of the developer's stake as collateral. Seems like a pretty easy way to bootstrap a legitimate competitor of bitcoin.

Both those seem to involve suggestions for potentially deceiving the market via potential price or perceived fairness manipulation. Obviously that would be a PR trap/nightmare if there was any indication BitShares used and perhaps even contemplated them as a strategy. Which they wouldn't.

But in future when there are fair share-drops and high natural valuations, if enough people respond positively to other parts of Charle's ideas in this thread then it may be enough to for detractors to link back to,  to suggest that BitShares has seriously considered and therefore may be going about business in an underhanded way. ('They're only doing sharedrops to be perceived as fair and then buying up big stakes for nearly free', or that the 'DAC's have high prices because BitShares has whales artificially supporting them'  etc.)

It's probably nothing, but then again it could be...




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5rRZdiu1UE (Just the Beasties boys sabotage song)

[Empirical1]

- Lottery players as a 'general' demographic are instant gratification junkies so the avg. one won't donate.

That is a good point. Which is precisely why increasing the value proposition while coupling it with the marketing could be a winner...

Thanks for the detailed responses Luckybit & Fuznuts, I'll look at those points a bit later. It sounds interesting & I guess this is a separate DAC idea to the main BitShares Lotto roll out though? If so then I don't think there's any harm in trying good original ideas like this.

[fuzzy]

The DPOScoin is a good idea, perhaps with another name. Depos? Deco?

Can be promoted with "get your Deco stake!" and "particiapte in democratic delegation!"

10% inflation to produce worlds first "democratic, self-sustaining and eco-friendly cryptocurrency"

The key is to understand that this coin would be net value creation. The Bitshares X stakes have already been set in stone. A DPOS coin would allow for testing of the underlying technology without any impact on the original Bitshares launch plan. Give part of the distribution to the developers and the rest amongst the bitcoin, litecoin, nextcoin, mastercoin and counterparty holders.

Find a wealthy benefactor to bootstrap the development and to set a price floor during the launch of the coin receiving 50 percent of the developer's stake as collateral. Seems like a pretty easy way to bootstrap a legitimate competitor of bitcoin.

Charles have you invested in the Bts ecosystem?  Last you mentioned it, you had no dog in the fight. I don't like backseat driving, but I much less prefer back seat driving from someone not in the car than from a passenger. 

If you're a concerned investor let us know


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Going to sound crazy coming from me, but it im glad for this discussion.  Suppose this is a chance to just let people prove themselves...with their own unique contributions.  I LIKE that he is bringing up these topics and interested...like ive always said...id love to feel like I can trust the motive.
Guess we'll see in time bitbro.  It would be wonderful if those motives prove to be aimed at providing value to the ecosystem (especially if he has no dog in the game). 

On another note...with the lotto DAC, it would be entirely possible to award the winners with a DPOS version of their coin, let them customize and  test?

[bitbro]

I think Charles is pushing something that would severely distract from the roll out plan and short term vision


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[fuzzy]

The DPOScoin is a good idea, perhaps with another name. Depos? Deco?

Can be promoted with "get your Deco stake!" and "particiapte in democratic delegation!"

10% inflation to produce worlds first "democratic, self-sustaining and eco-friendly cryptocurrency"

The key is to understand that this coin would be net value creation. The Bitshares X stakes have already been set in stone. A DPOS coin would allow for testing of the underlying technology without any impact on the original Bitshares launch plan. Give part of the distribution to the developers and the rest amongst the bitcoin, litecoin, nextcoin, mastercoin and counterparty holders.

Find a wealthy benefactor to bootstrap the development and to set a price floor during the launch of the coin receiving 50 percent of the developer's stake as collateral. Seems like a pretty easy way to bootstrap a legitimate competitor of bitcoin.

Wealthy benefactor here lost me....why a wealthy benefactor for a coin that could be launched without any such ties?

[bitbro]

The DPOScoin is a good idea, perhaps with another name. Depos? Deco?

Can be promoted with "get your Deco stake!" and "particiapte in democratic delegation!"

10% inflation to produce worlds first "democratic, self-sustaining and eco-friendly cryptocurrency"

The key is to understand that this coin would be net value creation. The Bitshares X stakes have already been set in stone. A DPOS coin would allow for testing of the underlying technology without any impact on the original Bitshares launch plan. Give part of the distribution to the developers and the rest amongst the bitcoin, litecoin, nextcoin, mastercoin and counterparty holders.

Find a wealthy benefactor to bootstrap the development and to set a price floor during the launch of the coin receiving 50 percent of the developer's stake as collateral. Seems like a pretty easy way to bootstrap a legitimate competitor of bitcoin.

Charles have you invested in the Bts ecosystem?  Last you mentioned it, you had no dog in the fight. I don't like backseat driving, but I much less prefer back seat driving from someone not in the car than from a passenger. 

If you're a concerned investor let us know


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[luckybit]

The DPOScoin is a good idea, perhaps with another name. Depos? Deco?

Can be promoted with "get your Deco stake!" and "particiapte in democratic delegation!"

10% inflation to produce worlds first "democratic, self-sustaining and eco-friendly cryptocurrency"

The key is to understand that this coin would be net value creation. The Bitshares X stakes have already been set in stone. A DPOS coin would allow for testing of the underlying technology without any impact on the original Bitshares launch plan. Give part of the distribution to the developers and the rest amongst the bitcoin, litecoin, nextcoin, mastercoin and counterparty holders.

Find a wealthy benefactor to bootstrap the development and to set a price floor during the launch of the coin receiving 50 percent of the developer's stake as collateral. Seems like a pretty easy way to bootstrap a legitimate competitor of bitcoin.

How do you determine which bitcoin, litecoin, nxt, mastercoin or counterparty holders want it if you don't make them prove their interest? Make them ask for or apply to receive it in some capacity so you can be sure everyone who gets it is a person who wants it.  How better to do that then to sell them tickets and let the lottery determine the rest?

Otherwise if its just dropped to people who don't care it's doomed to fail.

[charleshoskinson]

The DPOScoin is a good idea, perhaps with another name. Depos? Deco?

Can be promoted with "get your Deco stake!" and "particiapte in democratic delegation!"

10% inflation to produce worlds first "democratic, self-sustaining and eco-friendly cryptocurrency"

The key is to understand that this coin would be net value creation. The Bitshares X stakes have already been set in stone. A DPOS coin would allow for testing of the underlying technology without any impact on the original Bitshares launch plan. Give part of the distribution to the developers and the rest amongst the bitcoin, litecoin, nextcoin, mastercoin and counterparty holders.

Find a wealthy benefactor to bootstrap the development and to set a price floor during the launch of the coin receiving 50 percent of the developer's stake as collateral. Seems like a pretty easy way to bootstrap a legitimate competitor of bitcoin. 

[fuzzy]

- Lottery players as a 'general' demographic are instant gratification junkies so the avg. one won't donate.

That is a good point. Which is precisely why increasing the value proposition while coupling it with the marketing could be a winner.  Now mind you...the funds would be donated not necessarily by lotto players, but instead by communities and big boss hogs with substantial holdings. Why? Because it serves as advertising for all of them too...and in a way that makes it easier for lazy users to access without having to go to multiple faucets in order to get a stake.  This would become one of the central DAC hubs for people who want to play and get a chance of winning a nice satchel of "consolation coins".

- It looks like everybody wins a lot with that model but I suspect only one coin will and it may not even be the coin that wins 20%. (By example LottoShares gave 10% to PTS and 10% to MMC which seemed fair and was probably coming from a fair place, but because MMC is only a $70k CAP if you like the LottoShares DAC you would have done better buying MMC to gain access to it. PTS would have lost by supporting and promoting it before the snapshot. Similarly in your model, whichever coin
gets the biggest % relative to their market CAP is the one that would support your diamond system I 'think', other coins may lose by supporting/promoting it.)

Good point, that could potentially be fixed by allowing them to "rollover" past donations into other DACs, meaning that 5th place in the lotto DAC could accrue donations over multiple DACs, and at the snapshot of each DAC, the top winners are reflected/honored in genesis block. 5th place in the last DAC might be 4th or 3rd in the next. At least thats my take.

- Lottery players want the coin with the biggest jackpots, so they will play with the highest CAP/Jackpot coin, a lotto coin that kept most of the shares for a strong supportive community would have a better starting CAP than one that was giving away too much free equity imo.

rationale noted.  As far as betting for the coin with the higher market cap---betting will carry a reward equal to the risk (a higher mkt cap coin is like a higher denominated chip in a real world casino--say $500 chip as opposed to betting at a lower stakes $10 table)
As for equity I would suggest they are not giving it away for free: indeed, they are receiving a fair, easy and fun means of distributing (and advertising) their token(s) in a way that is similar to mining, but requires only that someone has A skill and the willingness to use that skill to earn cash (which can then be turned into new "mining" chances). In return for the investment/donation, most of which are burned, they receive a stake in bitshares diamond gaming version of their tokens-called chips-constantly advertising their coin (CONSTANT advertising is effective advertising) as well as bitshares diamonds (diamondshares?).  Their coins have also now been honored by invictus in a way that only bitcoin/pts was previously honored (more good PR for both sides). If we are talking about fairness, it doesn't get better imho. Maybe im wrong...

- In general if you're starting a crypto-currency the idea of fairness is very important, but as we move into DAC's & businesses it's going to be mainly about just having enough initial distribution to avoid manipulation and control.  (Shareholders want profit and a coin that spends it's equity on development, marketing, customer service etc. will be a better business than one giving too much of it's equity away imo.)

Along with donating equity, they are also contributing to the capital needed to make bitshares diamond gaming a high echelon, polished experience (development).  This high end experience will be associated with all tokens that helped fund development, and they gain from the buzz of being coupled with bitshares (Marketing).  Invictus also gains a great deal by getting another opportunity to teach a broader crypto community about snapshots (customer education/service).

Also, it can be thought of as an investment in a project that is beginning to gain traction even with some of its most staunch nay sayers.  Most coins have to pay bounties and do a great deal of coordination just to get a faucet up, running and stocked. A second barrier is that it is very unlikely a user will go to a faucet for .5 PPC, but if he has a chance to potentially win a 500PPC, 789NMC,  etc... secondary reward from playing slots with diamonds, it is more likely he/she will show up (and play with diamondshares)  It is also more likely that advertising people who win big and in a way that is much fairer than bitcoin will bring more users (that is wanted, right?).  Plus storing all your coins in a bitshares wallet also helps protect the average user because Dan and the team worked hard to provide security best practices by default. So now you have a one stop shop where users can go to play and also diversify their portfolio of "altcoins".

However that's why I like BM's 10/10 80% released via delegates model or even a 25/25 50% via delegates model, because shareholders can see which ideas work best and move towards doing more of that for a lot of these coins.

I like BMs thoughts on this too, but I dont see how it is going to bring in allies from the altcoin world.  If anythig I see wars over DPOS VS POW.  And bitcoin has whales and much more funding than invictus...not sire if it is a battle worth fighting alone.  Charles is right when he says ally with strength...how better to than to have a competition that awards the strongest bitcoin competitors?

Edit: Also if you were targeting lotto players and gamblers, we're close to the point where crypto-currency is becoming accessible enough that rather than targetting the sub-demographic of gamblers within alt-coin communities, you'd probably do better awarding it to members of gambling/lottery sites & forums.

Agreed here.  The one thin that realky stands out about this DAC, however, is its ability to literally serve invictus as a means of creating buzz and demamd for stake in upcoming projects. As for bringing in other gambling site members--any people using standard online gambling would be very interested in significantly increasing their profits...if only they learn a little about crypto.  Of course, then again...the coins those newbies will see and grow to trust early on will likely be the coins that have their own chips.  If I am a holder of any of the winning coins, I am happy to know that new users of this service will see my coin as trustworthy just like bitcoin. 
Also, domt forget...many potential developers come from tjese higher market cap communities...so interestimg them and including their coins will likely serve as a talent recruitment tool that could very likely turn I to new Dacs developed by altcoin devs, but still honoring pts/ags.

I also assume AGS/PTS gets a starting stake in that coin. So any other community would ask why would we donate money to help build a coin you are getting for free?

Because they are getting a stake in DiamondShares along with PTS/AGS, and playing with Diamondshares rewards users with a diversified number of active coins.

[luckybit]

I think these things can be worth a try, but some issues I see with that

- Lottery players as a 'general' demographic are instant gratification junkies so the avg. one won't donate.

Miners bought mining rigs to try to win the Bitcoin lottery system. They expected mining to be reasonably profitable and they wait for the price to go up. So miners are our demographic (not lottery players). It just so happens that the ideal serious game for mining might resemble a lottery but it doesn't mean we should market it as a traditional lottery. In a traditional lottery there is no consolation prize so this is more like a faucet with jackpot effects. So it's got lottery effects but it's not designed to function as a lottery but as a decentralized "fair" distribution.

- It looks like everybody wins a lot with that model but I suspect only one coin will and it may not even be the coin that wins 20%. (By example LottoShares gave 10% to PTS and 10% to MMC which seemed fair and was probably coming from a fair place, but because MMC is only a $70k CAP if you like the LottoShares DAC you would have done better buying MMC to gain access to it. PTS would have lost by supporting and promoting it before the snapshot. Similarly in your model, whichever coin
gets the biggest % relative to their market CAP is the one that would support your diamond system I 'think', other coins may lose by supporting/promoting it.)

These are good points.

- Lottery players want the coin with the biggest jackpots, so they will play with the highest CAP/Jackpot coin, a lotto coin that kept most of the shares for a strong supportive community would have a better starting CAP than one that was giving away too much free equity imo.

Edit: Also if you were targeting lotto players and gamblers, we're close to the point where crypto-currency is becoming accessible enough that rather than targetting the sub-demographic of gamblers within alt-coin communities, you'd probably do better awarding it to members of gambling/lottery sites & forums. 

Awarding doesn't work. Also the target demographic should be miners. Miners are the gamblers who build the Bitcoin community because it was people mining with CPUs and GPUs early on who told most of us to mine Bitcoins. Now everyone is telling people to buy Bitcoins and it's an entirely different proposition.

So what about the people who can't buy it? Shouldn't they have a chance to hit the jackpot too? After all isn't that what happened to people who mined Bitcoin in the CPU era? They hit the jackpot and now their coins are worth a fortune. The lottery effect allows anyone from any starting position to have a chance at rising to the top.

I also assume AGS/PTS gets a starting stake in that coin. So any other community would ask why would we donate money to help build a coin you are getting for free?

They are donating to get a stake in DACs which can offer shares as part of the jackpot. AGS/PTS would get some for free but our community was already here. They have a lot of mining rigs and they want a chance to get shares in the faucet so they play the game, so do people who have very little coins, and then some people will win.

But if they don't want to try to win the jackpot then they can just the shares on an exchange. Faucets are for people who don't want to or who can't afford to buy it on an exchange.

Details have to be worked out and discussed but it's a good enough idea to give it a shot.

[luckybit]

sometimes it feels to me that people overestimate the effect of percieved unfairness. in the end this is a capitalist system where people are cynical, or at least the people who are least swayed by and can see straight through the "talk" and "rumors" end up with the most money.

there seems to be a split in the crypto community, on the one hand people thinking NXT, Ripple, Gnash, etc. will fail just because they are unfair to some extent. but this is not how the space operates. at least so far, the incentives are not yet there to punish people who are unfair.

investors gonna invest, and it is the economically rational ones who grow their power. everyone else are just talking to the air.

Where is the investment going to come from? Mining isn't profitable anymore so Bitcoin is unfair. Suddenly there is a lot less investment coming in from ordinary people and now we have to kiss up to Wall Street. Enjoy the regulations which are coming.

[Empirical1]

Any bullshit share drop  distribution will be looked at as a negative down the road


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I agree. They have to show actually want it. You must make them apply or sign up or opt in. Kind of like if you put a new coin on an exchange and there was no demand for it then nothing happens. It has to be something people from the other community are proven to have shown interest in.

When two communities have a lot in common already then its easy to know what they might be interested in (PoS communities have similar interests and goals). When it's Proof of Work then it's not going to be as straight forward because there is more social distance between the two communities. Social distance makes collaboration more difficult.

Changed it, does this look better?

We have already talked about this a good bit.  One solution proposed was one where Invictus uses the BitShares Lotto DAC and the Lotto DAC holds an AGS Style competition for the distribution (denominated in PTS).  All coins can donate and receive recognition in the Genesis Block, but only 50-70% of the total Lotto ticket supply are distributed to donaters. 

See the following example:

• 20% for top donated coin (Peercoin)

• 15% for 2nd place

• 10% for 3rd

• 7.5% for 4th

• 5% for 5th…etc

     The Bitshares Lotto stores a % of funds collected (30%?) for development, burns the other donated coins and turns them into "chips" that represent their coin (for instance, PeerChips, NameChips, DarkChips, LiteChips...etc).   To protect from a huge number of sh!t (read P&D) coins being donated, instate a market cap limit (no coins under ______ market cap) to ensure only the trusted (more stable) coins are donated.
     Now build in a feature where users who bet with Lotto Tickets gain access to an added random reward (a faucet) for the rest of the donated coins—that go directly to the user's inbox (which they can Accept, Gift to a friend or charitable institution.  Win or lose your game, you are guaranteed an extra “roll” for a consolation prize in these chips.  Have tables and games for each of these coins, but make Lotto Shares special because, well—none of the other coins give people the extra chance of winning a potential pot of the donated chips.   (Make the payouts relatively infrequent, but large enough to really feel like a jackpot.
     Now make it Sexy: Change BitShares Lotto to BitShares Diamond Casino and Lotto Tickets to DiamondChips (they are a girl's best friend, after all) because they are the token in the ecosystem whose use awards random chips.  Once the Faucet dries up for each Chip in circulation, they float at the approximate value of the coin that was burned and Diamonds will carry a premium for the wonderful distribution they provide.   

     Make the donation period last a period of 180 Days and give people another chance (and incentive) to learn about how AGS funding and snapshots work before the launch occurs. 

//Genesis Block Message
"Herein lies the Names and Greatest Honors for the founders and builders of Bitshares Diamonds' Casino and Lottery.  A Historic Alliance was forged today by some of the most forward thinking visionaries in Cryptocurrency.  The Contest has closed and the following cryptocoins will make it to "Chip" status:
1st Place:  123,000 PPC for a total of 41,000 PTS   (awarded 20% total BitShares Diamonds supply)
2nd Place:  74,000 NMC for a total of 30703.9627039627 PTS
Etc...

Welcome to the first ever enterprise-level Decentralized Casino and Lottery Platform and know that you were here from the beginning.  "

Now make sure to set the faucet so distribution takes at least a few months so users get in a habit of playing.  Let all the altcoin communities that were honored help advertise BitShares Diamond DAC (especially the number 1 donater, who was awarded as much as PTS/AGS holders).  They will likely soon enough become PTS holders anyway

*Final note(s):
-Announce plans right after BitShares X goes live and buzz is high

-Branding BitShares Diamonds early on and getting the word out is important--branding in this way also plays upon a long-time human adoration for diamonds (though their value largely relies on cartels managing the supply).

-Make a play to both strengthen the value proposition for BitShares X and Bitshares Diamonds early on so the value proposition becomes; announce that a small % of BTSx will be thrown into the pool that will be distributed through BitShares Diamond Games as a special class of reward. * 
 

I think these things can be worth a try, but some issues I see with that

- Lottery players as a 'general' demographic are instant gratification junkies so the avg. one won't donate.

- It looks like everybody wins a lot with that model but I suspect only one coin will and it may not even be the coin that wins 20%. (By example LottoShares gave 10% to PTS and 10% to MMC which seemed fair and was probably coming from a fair place, but because MMC is only a $70k CAP if you like the LottoShares DAC you would have done better buying MMC to gain access to it. PTS would have lost by supporting and promoting it before the snapshot. Similarly in your model, whichever coin
gets the biggest % relative to their market CAP is the one that would support your diamond system I 'think', other coins may lose by supporting/promoting it.)

- Lottery players want the coin with the biggest jackpots, so they will play with the highest CAP/Jackpot coin, a lotto coin that kept most of the shares for a strong supportive community would have a better starting CAP than one that was giving away too much free equity imo.

Edit: Also if you were targeting lotto players and gamblers, we're close to the point where crypto-currency is becoming accessible enough that rather than targetting the sub-demographic of gamblers within alt-coin communities, you'd probably do better awarding it to members of gambling/lottery sites & forums.

I also assume AGS/PTS gets a starting stake in that coin. So any other community would ask why would we donate money to help build a coin you are getting for free?

[CLains]

sometimes it feels to me that people overestimate the effect of percieved unfairness. in the end this is a capitalist system where people are cynical, or at least the people who are least swayed by and can see straight through the "talk" and "rumors" end up with the most money.

there seems to be a split in the crypto community, on the one hand people thinking NXT, Ripple, Gnash, etc. will fail just because they are unfair to some extent. but this is not how the space operates. at least so far, the incentives are not yet there to punish people who are unfair.

investors gonna invest, and it is the economically rational ones who grow their power. everyone else are just talking to the air.