Author Topic: My friends, gather closely.  (Read 12871 times)

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Offline Simeon II

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In order to grow, business owners typically hold strong to their shares as much as possible and pump the services, capabilities and products of their business.

If crypto "currency" were actually valuable because of the service it performs, then we wouldn't need to give away ownership.

The mining subsidy of bitcoin isn't directly felt due to the non-linear increase in demand versus the rather linear increase in supply. Combined with the enormous network effect, you have a problem that consumers will typically stay with the sub-optimal standard. Asking people to migrate to a better standard when the old one is still making them money and sufficient for the needs of value transactions is a tough nut to crack. One can say hey we are better for the following reasons (I think apple did it best ->https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNnX6XRQBec), but ultimately, consumers are lazy.

Getting people to do something new usually requires a hook of some kind. With proof of stake, you have to premine the supply. So why not just distribute amongst a basket of currencies and use it as a hook? If the coin starts to get market value, then people have a stake in protecting it and will naturally become surrogates. The keys are properly engineering the basket, the value bootstrap and consistent release cycles. The Nxt team got two of the three right, but succumbed to greed for the distribution. Ironically, if they had simply given the coin away via a snapshot distribution and bought up cheap coins during the initial launch, then they probably would have had similarly sized stakes without any fairness fallout. This action would have also created the perception of demand for Nxt, combined with clever marketing, could have made it a legitimate contender to replace bitcoin (and why not, roger will still have a lot of Nxt).

The whole thing really just seems like a wasted opportunity to me.   

I have kind of a grand plan for this:

It is called DPOScoin

1 Distribution
-Drop/distribute the coin to the 15-20 biggest coins + AGS proportional to their price in selected date. The big question here is if or in not to include BTC. Each has advantages and disadvantages 90% will definitely skew the things in BTCs favor. The best of both worlds is something like scaling down BTC market cap to something like 2 -3 times that of LTC.

-Give some free shares/coins free, i.e. NEM style.


2.IPO/Donation/Operations account
Open an account for donations/IPO:

-1/3 of the money collected go for open market buying from early sellers; - at the end of each month the DPOScoin bought are split (2:1) between developers and donors proportional to donated amount.
-2/3 are paid as salaries to devs and bounties.

3. Other income
Probably even the most significant income for devs/distribution to IPO donors
-Each month the amount that can be claimed by each account in each of the  20 oryginal cryptos is reduced by 2.5%. At the end of the month the unclaimed amounts (in DPOScoin now) are split 3:1 between IPO donors and developers.


« Last Edit: July 18, 2014, 04:09:30 am by Simeon II »

bitbro

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Right, completely agree. My point is more that BitShares will provide services that have not been offered anywhere else.  If there is demand for the services, then that is what marketing should focus on.  And while currently it is not clear, soon after stock rises, giving away something for nothing will clearly be a move that is costly to the business.  Bitcoin today focuses on its services, which is the playing field we should meet them on.


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charleshoskinson

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In order to grow, business owners typically hold strong to their shares as much as possible and pump the services, capabilities and products of their business.

If crypto "currency" were actually valuable because of the service it performs, then we wouldn't need to give away ownership.

The mining subsidy of bitcoin isn't directly felt due to the non-linear increase in demand versus the rather linear increase in supply. Combined with the enormous network effect, you have a problem that consumers will typically stay with the sub-optimal standard. Asking people to migrate to a better standard when the old one is still making them money and sufficient for the needs of value transactions is a tough nut to crack. One can say hey we are better for the following reasons (I think apple did it best ->https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNnX6XRQBec), but ultimately, consumers are lazy.

Getting people to do something new usually requires a hook of some kind. With proof of stake, you have to premine the supply. So why not just distribute amongst a basket of currencies and use it as a hook? If the coin starts to get market value, then people have a stake in protecting it and will naturally become surrogates. The keys are properly engineering the basket, the value bootstrap and consistent release cycles. The Nxt team got two of the three right, but succumbed to greed for the distribution. Ironically, if they had simply given the coin away via a snapshot distribution and bought up cheap coins during the initial launch, then they probably would have had similarly sized stakes without any fairness fallout. This action would have also created the perception of demand for Nxt, combined with clever marketing, could have made it a legitimate contender to replace bitcoin (and why not, roger will still have a lot of Nxt).

The whole thing really just seems like a wasted opportunity to me.   


Offline oco101

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Some people had similar ideas. I believe the general consensus was it is too aggressive and we should ask them thirst  :)  … my opinion is more close to yours btw.

Strike where there is weakness and partner where there is strength. You can ask them to adopt a new coin or you can tell them you have a gift for everyone in the Nxt community- it's about how you say things. That said, what I've found from the Nxt community is that it is serving as a sink for most of the experienced java developers in the Cryptocurrency space. I honestly don't think they will recover from the botched initial distribution, but it's not stopping the devs from having fun building a more mature codebase. A pity they can't be redirected to more useful projects.
Welcome back Charles. You will always be welcome in our community, we all appreciate you insight ...... (this is only my opinion but I hope every one here agree)
 
Nxt they have a really solid product, we'll see how everything pan out, although I agree that their initial distribution was not the most brilliant thing they did ...
Of course if Btsx it is gonna work how is suppose too, Nxt  gonna be in a lot a trouble sooner or later.

bitbro

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Some people had similar ideas. I believe the general consensus was it is too aggressive and we should ask them thirst  :)  … my opinion is more close to yours btw.

Strike where there is weakness and partner where there is strength. You can ask them to adopt a new coin or you can tell them you have a gift for everyone in the Nxt community- it's about how you say things. That said, what I've found from the Nxt community is that it is serving as a sink for most of the experienced java developers in the Cryptocurrency space. I honestly don't think they will recover from the botched initial distribution, but it's not stopping the devs from having fun building a more mature codebase. A pity they can't be redirected to more useful projects.

 +5%

Love this post! It's about how you say things and how others perceive you. If we come across as generous they will board our ship.


I'm pretty much for trying these ideas but I would say it's essentially what NEM tried to do for NXT (Solve NXT's botched initial distribution problem, invite them & the other communities to get free stakes, even had support of some NXT devs.) But even before the recent controversy it looked like it was achieving limited success vs. the original.


In order to grow, business owners typically hold strong to their shares as much as possible and pump the services, capabilities and products of their business. 

If crypto "currency" were actually valuable because of the service it performs, then we wouldn't need to give away ownership.


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Offline Simeon II

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I'm pretty much for trying these ideas but I would say it's essentially what NEM tried to do for NXT (Solve NXT's botched initial distribution problem, invite them & the other communities to get free stakes, even had support of some NXT devs.) But even before the recent controversy it looked like it was achieving limited success vs. the original.

$1500 for free stake in not launched coin is limited success for you?

Offline Empirical1

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Some people had similar ideas. I believe the general consensus was it is too aggressive and we should ask them thirst  :)  … my opinion is more close to yours btw.

Strike where there is weakness and partner where there is strength. You can ask them to adopt a new coin or you can tell them you have a gift for everyone in the Nxt community- it's about how you say things. That said, what I've found from the Nxt community is that it is serving as a sink for most of the experienced java developers in the Cryptocurrency space. I honestly don't think they will recover from the botched initial distribution, but it's not stopping the devs from having fun building a more mature codebase. A pity they can't be redirected to more useful projects.

 +5%

Love this post! It's about how you say things and how others perceive you. If we come across as generous they will board our ship.


I'm pretty much for trying these ideas but I would say it's essentially what NEM tried to do for NXT (Solve NXT's botched initial distribution problem, invite them & the other communities to get free stakes, even had support of some NXT devs.) But even before the recent controversy it looked like it was achieving limited success vs. the original.

Offline jae208

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Some people had similar ideas. I believe the general consensus was it is too aggressive and we should ask them thirst  :)  … my opinion is more close to yours btw.

Strike where there is weakness and partner where there is strength. You can ask them to adopt a new coin or you can tell them you have a gift for everyone in the Nxt community- it's about how you say things. That said, what I've found from the Nxt community is that it is serving as a sink for most of the experienced java developers in the Cryptocurrency space. I honestly don't think they will recover from the botched initial distribution, but it's not stopping the devs from having fun building a more mature codebase. A pity they can't be redirected to more useful projects.

 +5%

Love this post! It's about how you say things and how others perceive you. If we come across as generous they will board our ship.
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charleshoskinson

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It should not be that hard for java devs to code in C++. But this is not my area of expertise.

And thus begins the Javas V C++ holy war debate :). Don't go down that road Simeon. Although I can't resist to point out the 2005-2013 java security plan:



The C++ codebase in your github repo is extremely well written and designed. I wouldn't expect any less from Dan. He's an expert in modern C++.

Offline Simeon II

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It should not be that hard for java devs to code in C++. But this is not my area of expertise.

charleshoskinson

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Some people had similar ideas. I believe the general consensus was it is too aggressive and we should ask them thirst  :)  … my opinion is more close to yours btw.

Strike where there is weakness and partner where there is strength. You can ask them to adopt a new coin or you can tell them you have a gift for everyone in the Nxt community- it's about how you say things. That said, what I've found from the Nxt community is that it is serving as a sink for most of the experienced java developers in the Cryptocurrency space. I honestly don't think they will recover from the botched initial distribution, but it's not stopping the devs from having fun building a more mature codebase. A pity they can't be redirected to more useful projects. 

Offline Simeon II

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I wouldn't write Nxt off so easily.  They are likely going to outlast Bitcoin and will be our biggest competitor for a while.

Dan is correct. Nxt has a persistent community, some good developers and are a few forks away from being a legitimate replacement for Bitcoin. Translation, you guys should launch a bitcoin replacement currency using DPOS and Titan that splits distribution amongst the most popular coins and AGS. Steal the Nxt community via outreach and innovation.

Some people had similar ideas. I believe the general consensus was it is too aggressive and we should ask them thirst  :)  … my opinion is more close to yours btw.

charleshoskinson

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I wouldn't write Nxt off so easily.  They are likely going to outlast Bitcoin and will be our biggest competitor for a while.

Dan is correct. Nxt has a persistent community, some good developers and are a few forks away from being a legitimate replacement for Bitcoin. Translation, you guys should launch a bitcoin replacement currency using DPOS and Titan that splits distribution amongst the most popular coins and AGS. Steal the Nxt community via outreach and innovation.

Offline liondani

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I wouldn't write Nxt off so easily.  They are likely going to outlast Bitcoin and will be our biggest competitor for a while.

translation:
"BitShares will outlast Bitcoin and NXT"

Offline bytemaster

I wouldn't write Nxt off so easily.  They are likely going to outlast Bitcoin and will be our biggest competitor for a while.
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