Author Topic: Any latest information?  (Read 9092 times)

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sumantso

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Re: Any latest information?
« Reply #45 on: September 07, 2014, 09:17:07 pm »
I donated a fair bit after 28 Feb, and also bought PTS as Stan and co were touting the 'Core DACs' which would be delivered by Invictus or teams funded/ closely related to Invictus. Now it seems I would have been better off holding onto that BTC and donating individually.

Bitshares Me better make it worthwhile for us.

Offline santaclause102

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Re: Any latest information?
« Reply #46 on: September 07, 2014, 09:46:56 pm »
I donated a fair bit after 28 Feb, and also bought PTS as Stan and co were touting the 'Core DACs' which would be delivered by Invictus or teams funded/ closely related to Invictus. Now it seems I would have been better off holding onto that BTC and donating individually.

Bitshares Me better make it worthwhile for us.
That might be but isn't clear yet. The presale could be very big and others are Dacs are doing to honor AGS/PTS too.

But I'd also be happy with something that is more close to the originally announced 50/50 (50% cob, eddie and developement fund; and 25% to PTS and 25% to AGS). Got to be grateful for what you get but something more close to 50/50 than 20/80 would be reasonable.

jaran

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Re: Any latest information?
« Reply #47 on: September 07, 2014, 11:16:43 pm »
"Notes are not equity in a corporation, they are not stock, they will not entitle anyone to dividends in the PeerTracks company, in fact they have no direct relation to the PeerTracks corporation. These are two separate, independent entities. PeerTracks uses the BitShares Music blockchain and adds value to the network just as Bitpay uses the Bitcoin blockchain and adds value to that. One does not own the other....When you send funds to our Bitcoin address, you are merely purchasing tokens that will enable you to use the BitShares Music blockchain when it launches."

I dont understand this.  I thought the whole point of DAC's is there is no true corporation behind the scenes and the shareholders get the profits from the DAC....

While i love the idea of the music DAC i would prefer to own a peice of the DAC not  another altcoin aka token.

This DAC seems to not be one so what am I missing? 


 

Offline robrigo

Re: Any latest information?
« Reply #48 on: September 07, 2014, 11:33:35 pm »
"Notes are not equity in a corporation, they are not stock, they will not entitle anyone to dividends in the PeerTracks company, in fact they have no direct relation to the PeerTracks corporation. These are two separate, independent entities. PeerTracks uses the BitShares Music blockchain and adds value to the network just as Bitpay uses the Bitcoin blockchain and adds value to that. One does not own the other....When you send funds to our Bitcoin address, you are merely purchasing tokens that will enable you to use the BitShares Music blockchain when it launches."

I dont understand this.  I thought the whole point of DAC's is there is no true corporation behind the scenes and the shareholders get the profits from the DAC....

While i love the idea of the music DAC i would prefer to own a peice of the DAC not  another altcoin aka token.

This DAC seems to not be one so what am I missing?

I interpret this as PeerTracks being a corporation to facilitate mass market adoption of the BitShares Music DAC. Maybe a similar role to DACSunLimited with BitSharesX? Although I don't know that the developers will be hired directly by PeerTracks or what; I assume not since they are separate parts of the initial allocation. The DAC still has a decentralized life of it's own and the NOTE is still a tradable commodity / token (like BTSX). As the DAC becomes more popular and provides a valuable service, NOTEs go up in value. PeerTracks will exist to make the DAC popular, educate people about it, maybe drive creation of tools to make the DAC user friendly for the average consumer, etc.

Those are just my musings though; not sure what the plan really is.

Offline Stan

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Re: Any latest information?
« Reply #49 on: September 07, 2014, 11:39:19 pm »
Its all about evolving industry best practices. 
Much has been learned about what a DAC needs to be successful legally and financially.

It makes a lot of sense to launch an autonomous unmanned business and then build an industry of manned businesses around it.  DACs need to be engineered to pay for the human support they will need to thrive.

We all want to own DACs that will succeed and owning 20% of a successful DAC is better than 100% of an over-constrained DAC.  And the community had to evolve from thinking like currency investors to thinking like business investors.

Choosing the right metaphor also turns out to be very important:

http://bitshares.org/a-bitrose-by-any-other-name/

All of these things are the duty of each DAC developer and will vary with each business model.
This is part of development just as much as writing code.
In fact, very little code needs to be written with DACs that use the BitShares Toolkit
so MOST of a developer's job is getting the non-software business decisions right.

Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract of any kind.   These are merely my opinions which I reserve the right to change at any time.

jaran

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Re: Any latest information?
« Reply #50 on: September 07, 2014, 11:51:33 pm »


I interpret this as PeerTracks being a corporation to facilitate mass market adoption of the BitShares Music DAC. Maybe a similar role to DACSunLimited with BitSharesX? Although I don't know that the developers will be hired directly by PeerTracks or what; I assume not since they are separate parts of the initial allocation. The DAC still has a decentralized life of it's own and the NOTE is still a tradable commodity / token (like BTSX). As the DAC becomes more popular and provides a valuable service, NOTEs go up in value. PeerTracks will exist to make the DAC popular, educate people about it, maybe drive creation of tools to make the DAC user friendly for the average consumer, etc.

Those are just my musings though; not sure what the plan really is.

I understand the need for a company or group of people to be hired by the DAC.  Obviously there are lots of dev cost etc.  I guess i just interperted it to mean that shareholders dont get a percent of the sales. 

So my question should be i guess
 
If a song is sold for $.99 with a $.01 transaction fee what percent after that goes to the artist and what goes to the DAC?  Then does the DAC pay PeerTracks LLC for services such as running the website from its profit from sales? Or is it the other way around where PeerTracks LLC is getting the profit from the sale at the the website and all that is going to the DAC is a $.01 burn in transaction fees?



« Last Edit: September 08, 2014, 12:19:43 am by jaran »

Offline muse-umum

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Re: Any latest information?
« Reply #51 on: September 08, 2014, 12:59:17 am »
Quote
10% of all Notes are going to the holders of BitShares PTS.
10% to those that donated to the BitShares AGS address.
45% to those that purchase Notes in our Pre-Sale
5% to our development team (Bitsapphire)
5% to the founders
25% to the PeerTracks corporation

How does the delegates get paid?

Quote
This is what you will be spending/earning on PeerTracks. User’s will convert their funds (USD, Euro, CAD, Peso, etc) into a form that is readable by the Bitshares Music Blockchain: BitUSD. Blockchains have very low transaction fees compared to banking institutions and credit card companies or even paypal. This allows for micro transactions which in turn allows the free flow of funds from fan to artist without anyone in the middle taking a huge cut.

So the BitUSD mentioned here is from Music rather than X, right?
Are you sure the market peg will work?

Offline fuzzy

Re: Any latest information?
« Reply #52 on: September 08, 2014, 12:59:33 am »
Quote
"It has price stabilityThat’s right. The holy grail for many: a crypto-currency without volatility. The Notes themselves are just like any other crypto-token, they can fluctuate… wildly. Market pegged bitassets on the other hand will not. This means that customers that come to the PeerTracks website, people that are here to shop for music not to day trade, can now benefit from all the advantages crypto-currencies have to offer, without being exposed to the volatility. When they fund their account with 20 USD of fiat, they get 20 BitUSD. This is what they spend while shopping for music. They can leave the funds in their wallet for months, come back, and it will still be there, unchanged, and yet they still benefit from the low transaction fees and all the other benefits that come with crypto."

Incorrect.  If they leave their money in the account for months...and come back, they will have gained a % of interest just for holding bitUSD :)
WhaleShares==DKP; BitShares is our Community! 
ShareBits and WhaleShares = Love :D

Offline oco101

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Re: Any latest information?
« Reply #53 on: September 08, 2014, 01:53:43 am »
 I don't get it :

Quote
An artistcoin’s value is determined by supply and demand. PeerTracks has a system in place that ties the sale of content (music) to supply and demand. Meaning the more music the artist sells on the website, the more his artistcoin should be worth.

Say you find an artist early on, before he is popular, you like his music and decide to buy his coin. If that artist goes mainstream and starts selling music on PeerTracks, his artistcoins should each be worth more now then when you purchased them.

I don't understand why artistcoin it is worth more if is is successful ? So ok I  buy  the artistcoin because you want to help fund the artist career. Now I have the coin so what ? What's  the artiscoin give me back ?  Why somebody would  want to buy it from me  ? what are his incentives ?
This part  is pretty  essential  on peertraks system and at first glance it is not clear at all why I artistcoin has value.
Sorry if the information is there and i missed it.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2014, 01:55:26 am by oco101 »

Offline cob

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Re: Any latest information?
« Reply #54 on: September 08, 2014, 03:36:04 am »
Xeroc.. I don't know how old you are.. but maybe you can guess what line comes with this pic:



And Hadrian, there are already quite a few corrections to be made in the site. Just waiting on our main man to get better.

But if you insist! I would LOVE to have an army of spell checkers, typo spotters, sentence reformulators, gramatical wizArdz to take a look and take note of everything.

Suggestions + criticism is welcomed here.
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline cob

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Re: Any latest information?
« Reply #55 on: September 08, 2014, 03:44:49 am »
"Notes are not equity in a corporation, they are not stock, they will not entitle anyone to dividends in the PeerTracks company, in fact they have no direct relation to the PeerTracks corporation. These are two separate, independent entities. PeerTracks uses the BitShares Music blockchain and adds value to the network just as Bitpay uses the Bitcoin blockchain and adds value to that. One does not own the other....When you send funds to our Bitcoin address, you are merely purchasing tokens that will enable you to use the BitShares Music blockchain when it launches."

I dont understand this.  I thought the whole point of DAC's is there is no true corporation behind the scenes and the shareholders get the profits from the DAC....

While i love the idea of the music DAC i would prefer to own a peice of the DAC not  another altcoin aka token.

This DAC seems to not be one so what am I missing?

The DAC is Bitshares Music.
It's unit is the Note.

10% of all Notes are going to PTS people and another 10% is going the AGS people.

So far so good?

Now BitShares is an independent entity that matches bids, asks, tracks who has what, etc etc. I'm sure you know this already.

PTS and AGS people are getting Notes, meaning they are getting units of this Decentralized Autonomous Company.


Peertracks is a corporation. This corporation is building a website that will make it possible for artists to create their own profile, upload their music, share stuff to facebook and twitter, create their own coin if they wish, sell it etc. All in a user friendly way. User Experience comes first. We are going for the masses. The user will not even know he is using a DAC on the backend.

If peertracks goes belly up, Bitshares music is still there, alive and kicking.

If Bitpay goes belly up, Bitcoin is still alive and kicking. Delegates/miners are not affected by a company using the blockchain closing it's doors.

Does this make sense?

PeerTracks is what is launching the BitShares Music Blockchain, and we are building a website/business that will bring this new technology to tweens, teens, and adults.
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline cob

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Re: Any latest information?
« Reply #56 on: September 08, 2014, 03:53:07 am »
Quote
10% of all Notes are going to the holders of BitShares PTS.
10% to those that donated to the BitShares AGS address.
45% to those that purchase Notes in our Pre-Sale
5% to our development team (Bitsapphire)
5% to the founders
25% to the PeerTracks corporation

How does the delegates get paid

The delegate gets paid exactly like in BitSharesX. Genesis block issuance is irrelevant to who gets voted in as delegates.
Peertracks doesn't control the blockchain. It's a DAC! Peertracks won't have control over delegate votes, or what they do with their earned transaction fees.



Quote
So the BitUSD mentioned here is from Music rather than X, right?
Are you sure the market peg will work?

Yeah BitUSD from the Music blockchain.
No we are not sure it will work. BitSharesX is what's doing the testing right now. Still experimental! Once BitSharesX shows the BitAssets are effectively pegged, then we will launch using BitSharesX as a base tech. If the peg does not work, then it's back to volatility town. We will have to figure out another way to save the non-day-traders from crypto volatility.

For now, we are waiting on BitUSD to have a go at the markets.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2014, 03:55:17 am by cob »
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline cob

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Re: Any latest information?
« Reply #57 on: September 08, 2014, 04:14:47 am »

So my question should be i guess
 
If a song is sold for $.99 with a $.01 transaction fee what percent after that goes to the artist and what goes to the DAC?  Then does the DAC pay PeerTracks LLC for services such as running the website from its profit from sales? Or is it the other way around where PeerTracks LLC is getting the profit from the sale at the the website and all that is going to the DAC is a $.01 burn in transaction fees?

keep in mind these are fictitious %s and #s for the sake of simplicity

If a song sells for 1 BitUSD (FROM the PeerTracks website), a couple of things happen.

If the artist selling the song does NOT have an artistcoin out there, this is what happens.
0.95 BitUSD goes to the artist's wallet.
0.04 BitUSD goes to PeerTracks for bandwidth cost and the likes (costs will need to be calculated closer to launch once less variables are present)
0.whatever the transaction fee is on the blockchain is going to be the well... transaction fee. Which is what gets burned and "returned" to the shareholders, just like in BitSharesX

Now if the person selling the song DOES have an artistcoin out there (meaning he created his own token and sold it to his fans)
Things are different. The artist will not be getting 0.95 BitUSD, he will be getting 0.95 MINUS what going towards his coinholders. I will go into this later.

One of the features we are exploring as far as transaction fee is setting a higher transaction fee for any transfer except artistcoins.
This means the DAC shareholders would profit more from BitUSD transfers (music sales) but the fees would stay very low when Jimmy and timmy are exchanging Snoopcoin for One Direction coin in the schoolyard on their smartphones.

We want to create 10000 dogecoin like economies each revolving around band/singer it's fandom and it's fan club. Keeping low token transfer fees would help that, where we really want to charge off of music sales to pay for service costs + network costs, etc.
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline cob

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Re: Any latest information?
« Reply #58 on: September 08, 2014, 04:20:29 am »
I don't get it :

Quote
An artistcoin’s value is determined by supply and demand. PeerTracks has a system in place that ties the sale of content (music) to supply and demand. Meaning the more music the artist sells on the website, the more his artistcoin should be worth.

Say you find an artist early on, before he is popular, you like his music and decide to buy his coin. If that artist goes mainstream and starts selling music on PeerTracks, his artistcoins should each be worth more now then when you purchased them.

I don't understand why artistcoin it is worth more if is is successful ? So ok I  buy  the artistcoin because you want to help fund the artist career. Now I have the coin so what ? What's  the artiscoin give me back ?  Why somebody would  want to buy it from me  ? what are his incentives ?
This part  is pretty  essential  on peertraks system and at first glance it is not clear at all why I artistcoin has value.
Sorry if the information is there and i missed it.

Yes that is an excellent question! And no you did not miss it. We have a mechanism in places that ties the value of the artistcoin with the sale of that artists music. We are being very non-crypto right now and keeping the secret sauce secret until we are ready to launch our pre-sale. (:

Meaning as soon as we have definite dates, we will spill the beans and explain how it works. And why people will WANT to hold artistcoins.

For now, just know that it'll be announced soon enough. Sorry about that! We are trying to guarantee our first mover advantage in the crypto music space lol
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

jaran

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Re: Any latest information?
« Reply #59 on: September 08, 2014, 04:31:37 am »
thanks for answering both my post.  That cleared it up for me.

Those were the answers i was hoping for! :)