Author Topic: Any latest information?  (Read 8139 times)

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Offline xeroc

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Re: Any latest information?
« Reply #105 on: September 10, 2014, 09:20:30 am »
.... but don't insult us by saying all that.
I didn't mean to insult anyone .. I didn't even mean to defend any decisions. I just wanted to fix the terms.
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Offline tonyk

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Re: Any latest information?
« Reply #106 on: September 10, 2014, 09:58:26 am »
The allocation for AGS/PTS is fair and honours the social contract.
The social contract is what all AGS/PTS investments were premised on and consequently there should be no expectation of additional allocations.
To make some points crystal clear:

 - AGS never was and never will be an INVESTMENT. Everything you've sent there is a DONATION!!!
 - there have been NO promises made in regards to allocations, how can they (i3) .. it's out of their hands how 3rd party developers decided the initial distribution. PTS/AGS distribution is about showing love to the community and 'buying' support from them .. and wit 10% each cob FULFILLS his side of the social consensus. As a consequence, I (and probably the bigger part of the community) will support cob. period!

You can always play on words as you like, but after the Feb 28 snapshot Stan and co made it quite clear that AGS  (and PTS too) was useful as it gave nice, big stake in the core DACs. It was also implied that while we get only 10/10 from the other 3rd party DACs, the core DACs will give us a big percentage; even upto 50/50. Then the initial announcement with Zenithcoin promised us 25/25.

So you can keep saying 'DONATION', 'NO promises' but we all know what was said. If you are changing it now then fine, but don't insult us by saying all that.

I think Xerox is misled here by his believe that he is dealing with the same kind of honest human beings like BM.

I am on the same page as you sumantso (and the navies like xerocs, will have to turn the page soon), it is a whole other game my friends... whole new game with this DAC!
Lack of arbitrage is the problem, isn't it. And this 'should' solves it.

Offline xeroc

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Re: Any latest information?
« Reply #107 on: September 10, 2014, 10:41:59 am »
I think Xerox is misled here by his believe that he is dealing with the same kind of honest human beings like BM.

I am on the same page as you sumantso (and the navies like xerocs, will have to turn the page soon), it is a whole other game my friends... whole new game with this DAC!
My wife tries to teach me this on a regular basis .. maybe .. someday I can be convinced :)

only time will tell
« Last Edit: September 10, 2014, 12:55:13 pm by xeroc »
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Offline liondani

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Re: Any latest information?
« Reply #108 on: September 10, 2014, 11:39:14 am »
Is the 45% presale going to be buy x amount of shares for y price?  Or is it going to be like If say 1000 people participate in the presale then 45% of the shares will be split between them weighted by how much they contribute?

I will be a fixed price in BTC for a fixed amount of Notes. Very similar to what Ethereum did. I believe they started with 2000 ether for 1btc, then scaled it down each few weeks. We are doing the same.
Only the final amount of Notes will not be decided yet. Meaning Notes cannot sell out. So if only 1000 Notes sell in the pre-sale. then that means the total amount of notes on the blockchain will be 2222.22 Notes.
If 1 million Notes sell, that means the total amount of Notes at Genesis block will be 2 222 222 Notes.

For those that have seen the FAQ page, where it says there will be 2billion notes at genesis block, that is out of date, it was based on BitSharesX before the details of the Pre-Sale where written out.

why not add zeros at the end when the presale ends... (the % is the same after all for the purchasers)
I mean if for example you sell   35.000.000 notes scale it up to 3.5 billion notes and give everyone 100x more notes... scale it up like the exchanges have do with BTSX when we decided to go from 4 milions BTSX to 2 billions... where is the problem?
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Re: Any latest information?
« Reply #109 on: September 10, 2014, 11:46:58 am »

Is the 45% presale going to be buy x amount of shares for y price?  Or is it going to be like If say 1000 people participate in the presale then 45% of the shares will be split between them weighted by how much they contribute?

I will be a fixed price in BTC for a fixed amount of Notes. Very similar to what Ethereum did. I believe they started with 2000 ether for 1btc, then scaled it down each few weeks. We are doing the same.
Only the final amount of Notes will not be decided yet. Meaning Notes cannot sell out. So if only 1000 Notes sell in the pre-sale. then that means the total amount of notes on the blockchain will be 2222.22 Notes.
If 1 million Notes sell, that means the total amount of Notes at Genesis block will be 2 222 222 Notes.

For those that have seen the FAQ page, where it says there will be 2billion notes at genesis block, that is out of date, it was based on BitSharesX before the details of the Pre-Sale where written out.


Would recommend sticking with the 2 billion share supply.

As more DACs are born it would advantageous to maintain as much consistency as possible throughout the Bitshares brand.

I'm envisioning seeing the first page of Coinmarket cap populated entirely with successful Bitshares DACs... would look mighty professional if they all started with the same number of shares.

Like soldiers on dress parade. Impressive.

+1

Hope you guys do this


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Offline Troglodactyl

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Re: Any latest information?
« Reply #110 on: September 10, 2014, 01:15:57 pm »
Assuming the founders, devs, and corporation are the same people, the current allocation means that as long as that group retains levels of public support rivaling the United States Congress, they'll effectively have full control of the network.  If the "decentralized network" core is intended to be more than a marketing gimmick, I'd allocate more Notes to either the pre-sale or to PTS/AGS.  As long as PeerTracks is doing its job well and has public support, elected delegates should pass most of the profits on to them anyway, without having to rely on appointed delegates.

Offline oco101

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Re: Any latest information?
« Reply #111 on: September 10, 2014, 01:47:22 pm »
Assuming the founders, devs, and corporation are the same people, the current allocation means that as long as that group retains levels of public support rivaling the United States Congress, they'll effectively have full control of the network.  If the "decentralized network" core is intended to be more than a marketing gimmick, I'd allocate more Notes to either the pre-sale or to PTS/AGS.  As long as PeerTracks is doing its job well and has public support, elected delegates should pass most of the profits on to them anyway, without having to rely on appointed delegates.

+1

Offline santaclause102

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Re: Any latest information?
« Reply #112 on: September 10, 2014, 02:27:34 pm »
Assuming the founders, devs, and corporation are the same people, the current allocation means that as long as that group retains levels of public support rivaling the United States Congress, they'll effectively have full control of the network.  If the "decentralized network" core is intended to be more than a marketing gimmick, I'd allocate more Notes to either the pre-sale or to PTS/AGS.  As long as PeerTracks is doing its job well and has public support, elected delegates should pass most of the profits on to them anyway, without having to rely on appointed delegates.
+5%

Offline bytemaster

Re: Any latest information?
« Reply #113 on: September 10, 2014, 04:19:30 pm »
I think it would be better to call it a "transparent core" than a "decentralized core"...
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Offline Troglodactyl

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Re: Any latest information?
« Reply #114 on: September 10, 2014, 05:13:28 pm »
I think it would be better to call it a "transparent core" than a "decentralized core"...
If the blockchain is intended to transparently be a puppet of the corporation, wouldn't it make more sense to use a traditional database instead?

I have no objection to the AGS/PTS allocation in itself, but that much concentrated stake seems to make the blockchain and DPOS rather superfluous.

Offline cob

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Re: Any latest information?
« Reply #115 on: September 10, 2014, 05:34:27 pm »
After a nice long talk with Toast today, we've come to a solution. Still working out a few of the details. Will let you all know soon enough.

Thanks for you input guys!
That being said, keep it coming (:
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Online Shentist

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Re: Any latest information?
« Reply #116 on: September 10, 2014, 06:31:51 pm »
i don't get the concept at all!

what i understand is this

bitshares Music - the blockchain -

will handle the trustless support of the artists. the can create "Artistcoins" (i don't like coin in this case - maybe Supporter would be better). So i buy shares from the Artist the Artist gets funds, but i don't get how i will get paid? just for selling songs with the blockchain? so the artist will sell also via itunes and amazon and the supporters will get nothing??
many questions here

peertrack

will get also a share for commissions etc. . i don't get it why everything needs done so complicated.

maybe run a mumble server time to discuss and talk what you want end maybe the community provides a better solution.

Offline xeroc

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Re: Any latest information?
« Reply #117 on: September 10, 2014, 06:58:25 pm »
maybe run a mumble server time to discuss ...
+5%
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Online Shentist

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Re: Any latest information?
« Reply #118 on: September 10, 2014, 08:12:56 pm »
The allocation for AGS/PTS is fair and honours the social contract.
The social contract is what all AGS/PTS investments were premised on and consequently there should be no expectation of additional allocations.
To make some points crystal clear:

 - AGS never was and never will be an INVESTMENT. Everything you've sent there is a DONATION!!!
 - there have been NO promises made in regards to allocations, how can they (i3) .. it's out of their hands how 3rd party developers decided the initial distribution. PTS/AGS distribution is about showing love to the community and 'buying' support from them .. and wit 10% each cob FULFILLS his side of the social consensus. As a consequence, I (and probably the bigger part of the community) will support cob. period!

You can always play on words as you like, but after the Feb 28 snapshot Stan and co made it quite clear that AGS  (and PTS too) was useful as it gave nice, big stake in the core DACs. It was also implied that while we get only 10/10 from the other 3rd party DACs, the core DACs will give us a big percentage; even upto 50/50. Then the initial announcement with Zenithcoin promised us 25/25.

So you can keep saying 'DONATION', 'NO promises' but we all know what was said. If you are changing it now then fine, but don't insult us by saying all that.

the funny part at all - not the community made this up 50/50 but them self in April 2014

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=16MhYDfgr3E watch 12:10 - here is the 50/50 split official announced.

i liked the presentation. i understand it now better, but with broken promises before the start......i am not sure what i have to think about this project at all.

Offline gamey

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Re: Any latest information?
« Reply #119 on: September 10, 2014, 08:54:51 pm »

Money has to come from somewhere.  If people want the thing to be a success then the money needs to be taken out of btsx fund. 

To be a success and appeal to the young demographic then this thing really needs to be slick.  So there needs to be software close to iTunes or we need to luck across the next Justin Bieber.  I dunno.. How do all these things go together ?  Development is not cheap.  It requires expensive labor.  It is also not easy.  There are great differences in the abilities of developers, it can be easy to hire a dud which is only revealed after a few weeks of training etc.
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