Author Topic: BitUSD used to buy artistcoins?  (Read 15278 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline cob

  • Moderator
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 376
    • View Profile
  • BitShares: cobb
Get your brains problem solving guys!

We REQUIRE a volatility free currency for our NON CRYPTO NERD customers. People shopping for that new Arctic Monkeys album and NOT there to day trade crypto-currency. This can't be stressed enough.

Our solution so far is: the BitUSD.

If anyone has any other proposition, one that would reach our goal of customer satisfaction / good user experience, then spit it out.

If you know of a way to take BTSX's BitUSD and allow our shoppers to pay artists on the BitShares Music Blockchain with it, then we are all ears.

So far the only solution to the volatility problem is a BitUSD, whatever it's collateralized with. Let me know what solutions you guys come up with.
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline speedy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1160
    • View Profile
  • BitShares: speedy
I agree with yidaidaxia that having BitUSD created on multiple Bitshares chains would cause confusion and doubt.

Also, what if a blowout occured on the Music chain leaving uncolleteralized Music:BitUSD? This seems to be more likely to happen there because of lower volumes and because on BTSX Bytemaster has been using his large stake responsibly to maintain & suspend BitUSD where needed. If it did happen then it would make the whole peg concept appear broken and cast doubt on BTSX:BitUSD.

Offline xeroc

  • Board Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12922
  • ChainSquad GmbH
    • View Profile
    • ChainSquad GmbH
  • BitShares: xeroc
  • GitHub: xeroc
if you get it cheap your are lucky .. but what reason is there for the peg to work in btsx and NOT on bitshares music (besides maybe volume and higher spread?1)

Offline toast

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4001
    • View Profile
  • BitShares: nikolai
If they aren't pegged pefectly then someone will take a loss or they won't trade 1:1.

I think it is good to have tightly controlled low-cap markets for bitassets outside btsx.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

Do not use this post as information for making any important decisions. The only agreements I ever make are informal and non-binding. Take the same precautions as when dealing with a compromised account, scammer, sockpuppet, etc.

Offline liondani

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3737
  • Inch by inch, play by play
    • View Profile
    • My detailed info
  • BitShares: liondani
  • GitHub: liondani
who sells you a bitUSD for 88% the price he would get at btsx?

it was just an example to understand how it will work.
put any numbers you want. I want only to know what happens with the difference.

Offline xeroc

  • Board Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12922
  • ChainSquad GmbH
    • View Profile
    • ChainSquad GmbH
  • BitShares: xeroc
  • GitHub: xeroc
who sells you a bitUSD for 88% the price he would get at btsx?

Offline liondani

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3737
  • Inch by inch, play by play
    • View Profile
    • My detailed info
  • BitShares: liondani
  • GitHub: liondani
if I send 1 bitusd collaterized in notes that has 88% the value of real USD (because of a thin market on bitshares music)
using the cross-chain function to bitsharesX exchange, how much worth in real USD will have that bitUSD that came from there if the market peg on bitsharesx is @ 98% of real USDs ?
I mean where will go the 10% difference in value?

Offline xeroc

  • Board Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12922
  • ChainSquad GmbH
    • View Profile
    • ChainSquad GmbH
  • BitShares: xeroc
  • GitHub: xeroc
i don't get it.

how will cross chain trading done?
Not sure yet ... AFAIK you can send bitUSD from bitsharesX to BitSharesMusic .. effectively destroying them in btsx and creating them in bts music ...
but don't ask me for details :(

Offline xeroc

  • Board Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12922
  • ChainSquad GmbH
    • View Profile
    • ChainSquad GmbH
  • BitShares: xeroc
  • GitHub: xeroc
I may be mistaken but:
 - there will be cross chain trading (i read somewhere from BM)
 - it does not matter what collateral you have for a bitUSD as long as the market decides one pile of shit is worth 1 dollar .. hehe
 - there are NO two different bitUSD .. they are the same
 - the "market cap" of the bitUSD is already incorporated into the market cap of btsx IMHO ..

Ok but why you need a market inside peertraks ? or i get that part completely wrong ?
it's a sideeffect of the bitsharesX code beeing used as basis .. AND you actually want to be able to trade for artistcoins... guitarGuyCoins and BeatlesCoins .. Biebercoins and so on .. then why not also let there be trades for bitUSD .. then you can also make cross tradings from biebercoin to bitUSD ... I can imaging a exchange where you can trade 10 beatles coins agains 1million bieber coins .. (me as a beatles fan :-) )

Offline Shentist

  • Board Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1601
    • View Profile
    • metaexchange
  • BitShares: shentist
i don't get it.

how will cross chain trading done?

Offline oco101

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 586
    • View Profile
I may be mistaken but:
 - there will be cross chain trading (i read somewhere from BM)
 - it does not matter what collateral you have for a bitUSD as long as the market decides one pile of shit is worth 1 dollar .. hehe
 - there are NO two different bitUSD .. they are the same
 - the "market cap" of the bitUSD is already incorporated into the market cap of btsx IMHO ..

Ok but why you need a market inside peertraks ? or i get that part completely wrong ?

Offline xeroc

  • Board Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12922
  • ChainSquad GmbH
    • View Profile
    • ChainSquad GmbH
  • BitShares: xeroc
  • GitHub: xeroc
I may be mistaken but:
 - there will be cross chain trading (i read somewhere from BM)
 - it does not matter what collateral you have for a bitUSD as long as the market decides one pile of shit is worth 1 dollar .. hehe
 - there are NO two different bitUSD .. they are the same
 - the "market cap" of the bitUSD is already incorporated into the market cap of btsx IMHO ..

Offline liondani

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3737
  • Inch by inch, play by play
    • View Profile
    • My detailed info
  • BitShares: liondani
  • GitHub: liondani


To issue "BitUSD" backed by "notes" (as collateral) on Bitshares Music blockchain(or any other DACs besides BTSX) is a BAD idea:

1. The fundamental basis for BitUSD market peg is the community consensus that BitUSD could be used/accepted as fiat USD by massive merchants, market, public. The blockchain inside market mechanism is a tool to kick off the loop and a place to reflect the community consensus from beginning. BTSX has almost proved that the blockchain inside mechanism works but need much more time to grow up to achieve the real/solid market peg. So even if btsx backed BitUSD works well, does not mean that "notes" backed "BitUSD" could work since "notes" backed "BitUSD" is a new thing to market and will have little market depth in internal market and no merchants acceptance except for peertracks.com

2. If other DACs have their own "BitUSD", what's the value/meaning of BTSX? Other DACs have same internal BitAssets market and even additional function like Music/DNS/Play.

3. This another "BitUSD"("notes" backed "BitUSD") will confuse merchants/public and make them concern about that if BitUSD is fungible or not. We could imagine that people will question about the difference between two(or more) kinds of "BitUSD" and how difficultly we try to "educate" them that all of these "BitUSD" could peg to fiat USD and they have equal value which is not exactly true since they are backed by different collateral and blockchains.

4. Due to item 2&3 above, the additional "BitUSD" will debase the value of BTSX and the whole Bitshares DACs ecosphere and even the concept of BitAssets.

5. If every Bitshares DAC has its own "BitUSD" will increase the complexity of its system, which brings unnecessary risk and mislead the development direction from the realy core fucntion.

I believe it's much better if we make all BitUSD fungible from BTSX only.

I think it should be still viable for atomic cross chain trading, maybe it will "lose" some operation efficiency compare to the two or more "BitUSD" scenario, but it do make sense from big picture.

Even if it's not viable or low efficiency base on typic atomic cross chain trading tech, but could we think about something like the concept of Bitcoin "sidechain"?

We need to evaluate the pros/cons of all options in details.

I don't really worry about someone just forks BTSX w/ additional functions(or just completely same) if we do not cooperate w/ them. They have no chance to beat BTSX since the real market peg needs time and resouce to grow up the system and BTSX is much mature than any latecomers. We could offer them options, use BTSX's "BitUSD" by atomic cross chain trading or sidechain, or no cooperation/support from BTSX.

In short, I do think the BTS community should take it very seriously before any real implementation.

Thanks.

I agree on all points the only place that bitUSD are issued should be BitshareX, there should't be another place. If not bitUSD will be exposed to all kinds of dangers. Not sure if you have atomic cross chain  trading why you still need a market inside peertraks. ? I'm waiting on full details tough it is not clear right now

 +5% +5% +5%

It's silly to attempt to make a new bitUSD except you thing you can compete  BTSX bitUSD and you want to overtake it in the  future...
I mean imagine 2 bitUSD (or more) depending on diferrent collaterals:

example:
bitUSD BTSX 98% of USD
bitUSD notes 90% of USD

we must push only one bitUSD so the potential market depth will not split among several bitUSDs and the PEGs holds tighter to the real USD price if only one bitUSD present...
It would confuse the crypto market and at the end only one will "survive" after all if you ask me...

You can use/buy as much bitUSDs you want from the free market or  direct from BTSX decentralized exchange!


PS I wonder what bytemaster thinks about their strategy (?)
« Last Edit: September 09, 2014, 07:45:22 pm by liondani »

Offline oco101

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 586
    • View Profile


To issue "BitUSD" backed by "notes" (as collateral) on Bitshares Music blockchain(or any other DACs besides BTSX) is a BAD idea:

1. The fundamental basis for BitUSD market peg is the community consensus that BitUSD could be used/accepted as fiat USD by massive merchants, market, public. The blockchain inside market mechanism is a tool to kick off the loop and a place to reflect the community consensus from beginning. BTSX has almost proved that the blockchain inside mechanism works but need much more time to grow up to achieve the real/solid market peg. So even if btsx backed BitUSD works well, does not mean that "notes" backed "BitUSD" could work since "notes" backed "BitUSD" is a new thing to market and will have little market depth in internal market and no merchants acceptance except for peertracks.com

2. If other DACs have their own "BitUSD", what's the value/meaning of BTSX? Other DACs have same internal BitAssets market and even additional function like Music/DNS/Play.

3. This another "BitUSD"("notes" backed "BitUSD") will confuse merchants/public and make them concern about that if BitUSD is fungible or not. We could imagine that people will question about the difference between two(or more) kinds of "BitUSD" and how difficultly we try to "educate" them that all of these "BitUSD" could peg to fiat USD and they have equal value which is not exactly true since they are backed by different collateral and blockchains.

4. Due to item 2&3 above, the additional "BitUSD" will debase the value of BTSX and the whole Bitshares DACs ecosphere and even the concept of BitAssets.

5. If every Bitshares DAC has its own "BitUSD" will increase the complexity of its system, which brings unnecessary risk and mislead the development direction from the realy core fucntion.

I believe it's much better if we make all BitUSD fungible from BTSX only.

I think it should be still viable for atomic cross chain trading, maybe it will "lose" some operation efficiency compare to the two or more "BitUSD" scenario, but it do make sense from big picture.

Even if it's not viable or low efficiency base on typic atomic cross chain trading tech, but could we think about something like the concept of Bitcoin "sidechain"?

We need to evaluate the pros/cons of all options in details.

I don't really worry about someone just forks BTSX w/ additional functions(or just completely same) if we do not cooperate w/ them. They have no chance to beat BTSX since the real market peg needs time and resouce to grow up the system and BTSX is much mature than any latecomers. We could offer them options, use BTSX's "BitUSD" by atomic cross chain trading or sidechain, or no cooperation/support from BTSX.

In short, I do think the BTS community should take it very seriously before any real implementation.

Thanks.

I agree on all points the only place that bitUSD are issued should be BitshareX, there should't be another place. If not bitUSD will be exposed to all kinds of dangers. Not sure if you have atomic cross chain  trading why you still need a market inside peertraks. ? I'm waiting on full details tough it is not clear right now

Offline yidaidaxia

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 179
    • View Profile

According to http://peertracks.com/faq.html artistcoins can be bought using BitUSD.

BitUSD is on a different blockchain than Bitshares Music, so can someone explain the link between them? Do I open my BTSX wallet and send BitUSD to peertracks, and then it credits me with snoop dog coins?

Also, is peertracks.com basically an easy to use frontend to Bitshares Music, so that users dont need to download the wallet or know anything about crypto?

People funding their accounts would do so in BitUSD collateralized by Notes (the Units of the Music DAC) So they really are shopping for music using Notes.. 1USD worth of Notes all packaged into what we know as a BitUSD.


Can you elaborate a little on this? Does this mean that Bitshares Music will have its own bitUSD? So after Music launches we'll have two independent markets that are creating bitUSD?

Yes and this will enable cross chain trading.

To issue "BitUSD" backed by "notes" (as collateral) on Bitshares Music blockchain(or any other DACs besides BTSX) is a BAD idea:

1. The fundamental basis for BitUSD market peg is the community consensus that BitUSD could be used/accepted as fiat USD by massive merchants, market, public. The blockchain inside market mechanism is a tool to kick off the loop and a place to reflect the community consensus from beginning. BTSX has almost proved that the blockchain inside mechanism works but need much more time to grow up to achieve the real/solid market peg. So even if btsx backed BitUSD works well, does not mean that "notes" backed "BitUSD" could work since "notes" backed "BitUSD" is a new thing to market and will have little market depth in internal market and no merchants acceptance except for peertracks.com

2. If other DACs have their own "BitUSD", what's the value/meaning of BTSX? Other DACs have same internal BitAssets market and even additional function like Music/DNS/Play.

3. This another "BitUSD"("notes" backed "BitUSD") will confuse merchants/public and make them concern about that if BitUSD is fungible or not. We could imagine that people will question about the difference between two(or more) kinds of "BitUSD" and how difficultly we try to "educate" them that all of these "BitUSD" could peg to fiat USD and they have equal value which is not exactly true since they are backed by different collateral and blockchains.

4. Due to item 2&3 above, the additional "BitUSD" will debase the value of BTSX and the whole Bitshares DACs ecosphere and even the concept of BitAssets.

5. If every Bitshares DAC has its own "BitUSD" will increase the complexity of its system, which brings unnecessary risk and mislead the development direction from the realy core fucntion.

I believe it's much better if we make all BitUSD fungible from BTSX only.

I think it should be still viable for atomic cross chain trading, maybe it will "lose" some operation efficiency compare to the two or more "BitUSD" scenario, but it do make sense from big picture.

Even if it's not viable or low efficiency base on typic atomic cross chain trading tech, but could we think about something like the concept of Bitcoin "sidechain"?

We need to evaluate the pros/cons of all options in details.

I don't really worry about someone just forks BTSX w/ additional functions(or just completely same) if we do not cooperate w/ them. They have no chance to beat BTSX since the real market peg needs time and resouce to grow up the system and BTSX is much mature than any latecomers. We could offer them options, use BTSX's "BitUSD" by atomic cross chain trading or sidechain, or no cooperation/support from BTSX.

In short, I do think the BTS community should take it very seriously before any real implementation.

Thanks.
PTS: PmUT7H6e7Hvp9WtKtxphK8AMeRndnow2S8   /   BTC: 1KsJzs8zYppVHBp7CbyvQAYrEAWXEcNvmp   /   BTSX: yidaidaxia (暂用)
新浪微博: yidaidaxia_郝晓曦 QQ:36191175试手补天