Author Topic: PowerBall, DAC - Lottery Based Mining Experiment  (Read 12719 times)

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Offline fuzzy

Definitely an interesting idea.  I read somewhere about a percentage of bets being able to be stored as "savings" for people both when they lose and when they win.  It is a User Option that needs to be set up.  Perhaps it would not be a bad idea in this case?
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Offline Bitstrader

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I think you are right about too-many DACs.   If such a DAC were to be released it would be as a TEST NETWORK to test the mechanics and not as a speculative play in its own right.

Too many from one source could be tragic, but implementing one to work in a different way that it had previously operated should be ok to do many times over, I kind of hope you could launch a test network, you do have quite a few volunteers for beta testing  :) I am in, I just hope a test network wont draw to many away from the main focus.

Offline Stan

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Interesting.  Since the DAC genesis block would be poured from the ProtoShares block chain it seems a PTS holder would be getting a piece of the action right from day one even if they didn't do the import until later.  Cool.

Second question...which is more about the nature of ProtoShares: If I import my PTS privkey into the PowerBall DAC wallet have I "spent" by PTS or just gained access to a clone of them in the form of Powerball DAC shares leaving me free to also import my PTS privkey into the next DAC and the next one and the next one and....?

Yes, and you don't have to "spend" your PTS, you get a clone of whatever shares you hold as shares in the new DAC as well.  Both. And again and again and...

Owning ProtoShares is owning rights to all future DACs that honor the ProtoShares Social Contract.  All Invictus sponsored DACs will do so.  We hope others will adopt our community that way too.

So in a round about way PTS has a proof of stake type behavior based around a social contract? is it fair to compere it to proof of stake or is there a better metaphor?

I wouldn’t call it a proof of stake in the traditional sense because it is a one-time event at genesis that is performed by the developer as a social contract not by miners in the block chain.

ProtoShares was conceived with a number of objectives.

•   A way to separate investing in an idea from investing in one or more implementations of the idea.
•   An incentive for competitors to cooperate on building an implementation because they are all stakeholders in the idea.
•   A way to vet an idea and attract venture capitalists based upon prediction market evidence that the idea has value.
•   A way for developers to invest in an idea and raise funding by generating growth from showing more and more evidence that they will successfully implement the idea in a way that benefits investors in the idea.
•   A way for someone with a good idea but lacking the ability to implement it to share it and benefit from its ultimate implementation by somebody else. 
•   A way for an entire community to participate in “pre-mining” in a way that might be deemed fair (e.g. for DACs that must start out with enough currency to operate and enough credibility to get listed on exchanges from Day One.)
•   A more graceful “soft fork” way to upgrade to version two of a DAC by instantiating the new in parallel with the old and let the owners (shareholders) not just the employees (miners) decide when and if value transitions from the old to the new. 
•   A way to build a community and get them to cooperate on the implementation because they all have a stake in the idea.

Here’s the biggie:  If a currency backed by the services of an unmanned company like Bitcoin makes sense, then a currency backed by the potential of an entire product line of unmanned companies should be much stronger, and eventually one backed by the potential of an entire industry would be even more robust, stable and valuable.
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Offline luckybit

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Interesting.  Since the DAC genesis block would be poured from the ProtoShares block chain it seems a PTS holder would be getting a piece of the action right from day one even if they didn't do the import until later.  Cool.

Second question...which is more about the nature of ProtoShares: If I import my PTS privkey into the PowerBall DAC wallet have I "spent" by PTS or just gained access to a clone of them in the form of Powerball DAC shares leaving me free to also import my PTS privkey into the next DAC and the next one and the next one and....?

Yes, and you don't have to "spend" your PTS, you get a clone of whatever shares you hold as shares in the new DAC as well.  Both. And again and again and...

Owning ProtoShares is owning rights to all future DACs that honor the ProtoShares Social Contract.  All Invictus sponsored DACs will do so.  We hope others will adopt our community that way too.

So in a round about way PTS has a proof of stake type behavior based around a social contract? is it fair to compere it to proof of stake or is there a better metaphor?
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Offline bytemaster

I think you are right about too-many DACs.   If such a DAC were to be released it would be as a TEST NETWORK to test the mechanics and not as a speculative play in its own right. 
For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
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Offline gkgminer

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this concept will really impress small time miners who just mine in the background for fun. Either they win nothing or something big.

and it also bring in new user base to DAC system itself who buy in powerball shares as an investment portfolio to get dividends.

But beware
the jackpot concept was already intorduced in Starcoins, but the coin itself lost its value after a period of time

But it all works only if the new DAC is considered much of a value. so rather to create a new DAC it would be bettter to implement the concept in Bitshares itself which has been considered to value high even before its launch. In this way the the existing bitshare concept would complement the jackpot and also the vice-versa.
And in the end we'll have a single DAC which has been awaited with high value will gain more popularity and perish with new user base of solominers and small time investors.

my opinion is that the scrypt-coin segment(except for litecoin) lost its value only because too many new coins were rushed. we really do not want tht kind to happen here.
a slow and steady set of DACs would help the users to choose which to opt rather than confusing them with too many options

Offline Stan

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The ideal candidate is someone who has already implemented a fully functioning crypto-currency.  Bytemaster will personally provide the training required beyond that foundation.

Or you can simply be brilliant enough to implement a working prototype from scratch and plunk it down on bytemaster's desktop as a fiat accompli before he can hire someone with the above credentials.

My apologies if I offended anyone by using the four-letter word "fiat".   :)
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Offline spoonman

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Let's experiment then.

I am willing to pay someone to create this provided it honors the holders of ProtoShares in the genesis block.    I am looking for a full-time DAC developer that can quickly put together interesting new DACs like this to experiment with various incentive models.   I will offer a 1 BTC referral bounty to anyone who can give me a lead that results in the hiring of someone with the skills necessary to develop variations on Bitcoin in a rapid manner.

What skill set are you looking for in this developer? Also, what other positions are you looking for?

Offline Stan

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Interesting.  Since the DAC genesis block would be poured from the ProtoShares block chain it seems a PTS holder would be getting a piece of the action right from day one even if they didn't do the import until later.  Cool.

Second question...which is more about the nature of ProtoShares: If I import my PTS privkey into the PowerBall DAC wallet have I "spent" by PTS or just gained access to a clone of them in the form of Powerball DAC shares leaving me free to also import my PTS privkey into the next DAC and the next one and the next one and....?

Yes, and you don't have to "spend" your PTS, you get a clone of whatever shares you hold as shares in the new DAC as well.  Both. And again and again and...

Owning ProtoShares is owning rights to all future DACs that honor the ProtoShares Social Contract.  All Invictus sponsored DACs will do so.  We hope others will adopt our community that way too.


Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract of any kind.   These are merely my opinions which I reserve the right to change at any time.

Offline bytemaster

Second question...which is more about the nature of ProtoShares: If I import my PTS privkey into the PowerBall DAC wallet have I "spent" by PTS or just gained access to a clone of them in the form of Powerball DAC shares leaving me free to also import my PTS privkey into the next DAC and the next one and the next one and....?


The great thing about PTS is that you get shares in every DAC that honors the PTS contract! You don't lose them, you just get shares in the new DACs that are released, and then you keep your PTS!

Maybe I'll start buying some up  8).  Given the potential they seem dirt cheap right now.

I completely agree, they're worth so much more than they're trading for right now

People are discounting the price until they see something.   So I think this loto-chain will be a great way to demonstrate both the value of PTS and test new ideas prior to BitShares being released.    I think it has potential in its own right as a multi-million dollar market-cap alt-coin.   

Some people have worried that we are stretching ourself to thin and not focusing.  I want to make it very clear that our main development team will be focused on BitShares / Keyhotee and we are going to outsource development of some of our experimental DACs to third parties who will manage it all.   We have earned enough from PTS already to fund this ALT coin and I suspect it will more than pay for itself if it is even moderately successful.   Each time we learn more and these learning experiences make our future DACs better. 

 
For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
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Offline phoenix

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Second question...which is more about the nature of ProtoShares: If I import my PTS privkey into the PowerBall DAC wallet have I "spent" by PTS or just gained access to a clone of them in the form of Powerball DAC shares leaving me free to also import my PTS privkey into the next DAC and the next one and the next one and....?


The great thing about PTS is that you get shares in every DAC that honors the PTS contract! You don't lose them, you just get shares in the new DACs that are released, and then you keep your PTS!

Maybe I'll start buying some up  8).  Given the potential they seem dirt cheap right now.

I completely agree, they're worth so much more than they're trading for right now
Protoshares: Pg5EhSZEXHFjdFUzpxJbm91UtA54iUuDvt
Bitmessage: BM-NBrGi2V3BZ8REnJM7FPxUjjkQp7V5D28

Offline Riverhead

Second question...which is more about the nature of ProtoShares: If I import my PTS privkey into the PowerBall DAC wallet have I "spent" by PTS or just gained access to a clone of them in the form of Powerball DAC shares leaving me free to also import my PTS privkey into the next DAC and the next one and the next one and....?


The great thing about PTS is that you get shares in every DAC that honors the PTS contract! You don't lose them, you just get shares in the new DACs that are released, and then you keep your PTS!

Maybe I'll start buying some up  8).  Given the potential they seem dirt cheap right now.


Offline phoenix

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Second question...which is more about the nature of ProtoShares: If I import my PTS privkey into the PowerBall DAC wallet have I "spent" by PTS or just gained access to a clone of them in the form of Powerball DAC shares leaving me free to also import my PTS privkey into the next DAC and the next one and the next one and....?


The great thing about PTS is that you get shares in every DAC that honors the PTS contract! You don't lose them, you just get shares in the new DACs that are released, and then you keep your PTS!
Protoshares: Pg5EhSZEXHFjdFUzpxJbm91UtA54iUuDvt
Bitmessage: BM-NBrGi2V3BZ8REnJM7FPxUjjkQp7V5D28

Offline Riverhead

Interesting.  Since the DAC genesis block would be poured from the ProtoShares block chain it seems a PTS holder would be getting a piece of the action right from day one even if they didn't do the import until later.  Cool.

Second question...which is more about the nature of ProtoShares: If I import my PTS privkey into the PowerBall DAC wallet have I "spent" by PTS or just gained access to a clone of them in the form of Powerball DAC shares leaving me free to also import my PTS privkey into the next DAC and the next one and the next one and....?


Offline Stan

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PowerBall, DAC is a lottery within a lottery.

We are using it to test out concepts for lottery-based mining by implementing an Unmanned Lottery Company whose lottery tickets are PowerShares themselves.

And ProtoShare holders start out with a matching set of PowerShares as a share in the DAC and a share in the recurring chances to win - thereby demonstrating to one and all how ProtoShares will actually work.

Absolutely poetic!

 :)

As a holder of ProtoShares do I automatically get a piece of the action of the Powerball DAC with no action required?  If this is the case than I'm starting to understand the value of being a PTS owner.

Once someone wins and the DAC pays out its shareholders their cut how would that payment look?  Would I need a separate wallet for PowerShares or would I receive an amount of PTS to my existing wallet/address?

Yes, if the implementer of this DAC agrees to honor the ProtoShares Social Contract.  That would of course be a condition for Invictus to sponsor it, which bytemaster has offered to do under those terms.

Winnings would be paid out according to the terms of the final lottery design and published rules. 

They would automagically show up with all your other shares/coins in your Keyhotee wallet and presumably any compliant third party wallets.
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract of any kind.   These are merely my opinions which I reserve the right to change at any time.