Author Topic: How committed is the community to bitsharesX as opposed to the next "DAC"?  (Read 19918 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline fussyhands

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 109
    • View Profile
BTSX is not a currency, BitAssets within BTSX are the currency.
BTSX is the "bank" that is the source of credit behind the BitUSD issued.

Well BTSX is being traded as a currency on Bter, and can be sent to people like a currency from the wallet software.  I understand that BTSX is the value put up for collateral which underlies the market pegging of BitUSD.  But it is thus functioning as a currency is it not?  People can and will use it to buy/sell things.  Why do you say it's not a currency?

Maybe you are imagining that once BitUSD is stable people would just buy and sell things by transfering BitUSD instead of BTSX?  But they may also choose to use BTSX, no?  Especially if one of the parties believes that USD is being devalued by overprinting.  BTSX may be viewed as a more reliable currency...

Offline bytemaster

BTSX is not a currency, BitAssets within BTSX are the currency.
BTSX is the "bank" that is the source of credit behind the BitUSD issued.

Network effect is the #1 driver for long term growth.  Achieving network effect for BTSX holders is my #1 goal.

However, everyone who has a stake in BTSX got it on equal footing by mining/buying/etc with their own funds.   I do not expect any individual including myself to fund development out of their own pocket so that everyone else can benefit from it.   BTSX has a development fund of ~100M BTSX and as long as we can grow the value of BTSX faster than we spend it the network can thrive.
For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline nomoreheroes7

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 756
  • King of all the land
    • View Profile
  • BitShares: nomoreheroes7
I'm trying to conceive a scenario in which some entity scoops BitsharesX, releases a knock-off and screws AGS/PTS/Community.

Can't come up with one that is viable.

At this point in time I can't see another group of devs jumping in and doing a better job at developing/marketing the platform, ie. winning the race.

In the future, once the platform is mature, I can't see another group of devs copying and adding enough gee-whiz to lure the community while simultaneously screwing the community.

In between, I can't see an attack or flaw that the devs/delegates could not fix/fork themselves.

Unless I'm missing something obvious this risk seems to be an armchair issue rather than something investors (myself included) need to worry about.

And finally... if someone rips off the code, what could they possibly call their knock-off that would compete with the Bitshares branding (CitiBank? Wells Fargo? BOA?).

I'm becoming convinced.  Is it true that the community would view any new DAC designed to function as a currency as a competitor to BitShares X and thus will not launch such a DAC (at least not with broad community support)?

I can't imagine they would. These are some of the smartest minds on the planet; I can't imagine they would cannibalize their major product with a knock-off competitor version for no good reason...it just wouldn't make sense.

Offline fussyhands

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 109
    • View Profile
I'm trying to conceive a scenario in which some entity scoops BitsharesX, releases a knock-off and screws AGS/PTS/Community.

Can't come up with one that is viable.

At this point in time I can't see another group of devs jumping in and doing a better job at developing/marketing the platform, ie. winning the race.

In the future, once the platform is mature, I can't see another group of devs copying and adding enough gee-whiz to lure the community while simultaneously screwing the community.

In between, I can't see an attack or flaw that the devs/delegates could not fix/fork themselves.

Unless I'm missing something obvious this risk seems to be an armchair issue rather than something investors (myself included) need to worry about.

And finally... if someone rips off the code, what could they possibly call their knock-off that would compete with the Bitshares branding (CitiBank? Wells Fargo? BOA?).

I'm becoming convinced.  Is it true that the community would view any new DAC designed to function as a currency as a competitor to BitShares X and thus will not launch such a DAC (at least not with broad community support)?

Offline oldman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 556
    • View Profile
I'm trying to conceive a scenario in which some entity scoops BitsharesX, releases a knock-off and screws AGS/PTS/Community.

Can't come up with one that is viable.

At this point in time I can't see another group of devs jumping in and doing a better job at developing/marketing the platform, ie. winning the race.

In the future, once the platform is mature, I can't see another group of devs copying and adding enough gee-whiz to lure the community while simultaneously screwing the community.

In between, I can't see an attack or flaw that the devs/delegates could not fix/fork themselves.

Unless I'm missing something obvious this risk seems to be an armchair issue rather than something investors (myself included) need to worry about.

And finally... if someone rips off the code, what could they possibly call their knock-off that would compete with the Bitshares branding (CitiBank? Wells Fargo? BOA?).

Offline gamey

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2253
    • View Profile


BTSX is the current incarnation of Bitshares X.  If BTSX has a different version by dacsunlimited or supported by I3 it will most likely be a direct snapshot of BTSX ownership.

AGS/PTS only pertain to genesis block snapshots that have not been created.

As far as the community, most will be behind BTSX more than other DACS but for example if someone wants to write a DAC then they're obvious "more committed" to that DAC personally.

I speak for myself and only myself.

Offline toast

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4001
    • View Profile
  • BitShares: nikolai
Wait. Now I am confused. What DACS  are honoring btsx? I thought Pts  and Ags were the only thing honored in a snapshot. I am pretty sure DNS isn't honoring btsx nor is peertracks. Can I get an example of which DACS will honor btsx and which ones won't. I may want to sell Pts  for btsx.

Any successor to BTSX, if something like that were to be built.
Do not use this post as information for making any important decisions. The only agreements I ever make are informal and non-binding. Take the same precautions as when dealing with a compromised account, scammer, sockpuppet, etc.

Ggozzo

  • Guest
Wait. Now I am confused. What DACS  are honoring btsx? I thought Pts  and Ags were the only thing honored in a snapshot. I am pretty sure DNS isn't honoring btsx nor is peertracks. Can I get an example of which DACS will honor btsx and which ones won't. I may want to sell Pts  for btsx.

Offline fussyhands

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 109
    • View Profile
Are you familiar with the snapshot concept? BM addressed above how btsx holder value is preserved even if a successor is announced

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

I read this:  http://wiki.bitshares.org/index.php/Sharedrops_and_Snapshots

But that talks about giving a small amount to PTS and AGS holders.  It doesn't say anything about honoring BTSX.

Also, the snapshot concept does not address the importance of network effects for making a coin actually useful.  For the mainstream to want to use a coin many other people need to already be using it (that is what make it useful for transactions).  Bitcoin looks like it might be able to successfully bootstrap itself into mainstream use, but none of the other altcoins are even close.  BitShares X has enough innovation that maybe it also has a chance to bootstrap.  But not if half the community moves to BitShares Y, and then BitShares Z.

Also, lets say that contrary to the snapshots wiki page,  10% of Bitshares Y goes to BitShares X and 10% of BitShares Z goes to BitShares Y and then BitShares Z achieves critical mass and becomes mainstream, while X and Y wither and die.  The snapshot concept means I retain 1% of my market share (10% of 10%).  That is not really very reassuring.

It would likely honor 100%, not 10%.

Really?  You wouldn't keep a small percentage for yourself?
I assume he has a small % in BTSX already, so he will keep that.

Won't he want to fund his development efforts without digging into his savings?

Offline tonyk

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3308
    • View Profile
Are you familiar with the snapshot concept? BM addressed above how btsx holder value is preserved even if a successor is announced

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

I read this:  http://wiki.bitshares.org/index.php/Sharedrops_and_Snapshots

But that talks about giving a small amount to PTS and AGS holders.  It doesn't say anything about honoring BTSX.

Also, the snapshot concept does not address the importance of network effects for making a coin actually useful.  For the mainstream to want to use a coin many other people need to already be using it (that is what make it useful for transactions).  Bitcoin looks like it might be able to successfully bootstrap itself into mainstream use, but none of the other altcoins are even close.  BitShares X has enough innovation that maybe it also has a chance to bootstrap.  But not if half the community moves to BitShares Y, and then BitShares Z.

Also, lets say that contrary to the snapshots wiki page,  10% of Bitshares Y goes to BitShares X and 10% of BitShares Z goes to BitShares Y and then BitShares Z achieves critical mass and becomes mainstream, while X and Y wither and die.  The snapshot concept means I retain 1% of my market share (10% of 10%).  That is not really very reassuring.

It would likely honor 100%, not 10%.

Really?  You wouldn't keep a small percentage for yourself?
I assume he has a small % in BTSX already, so he will keep that.
Lack of arbitrage is the problem, isn't it. And this 'should' solves it.

Offline fussyhands

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 109
    • View Profile
Are you familiar with the snapshot concept? BM addressed above how btsx holder value is preserved even if a successor is announced

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

I read this:  http://wiki.bitshares.org/index.php/Sharedrops_and_Snapshots

But that talks about giving a small amount to PTS and AGS holders.  It doesn't say anything about honoring BTSX.

Also, the snapshot concept does not address the importance of network effects for making a coin actually useful.  For the mainstream to want to use a coin many other people need to already be using it (that is what make it useful for transactions).  Bitcoin looks like it might be able to successfully bootstrap itself into mainstream use, but none of the other altcoins are even close.  BitShares X has enough innovation that maybe it also has a chance to bootstrap.  But not if half the community moves to BitShares Y, and then BitShares Z.

Also, lets say that contrary to the snapshots wiki page,  10% of Bitshares Y goes to BitShares X and 10% of BitShares Z goes to BitShares Y and then BitShares Z achieves critical mass and becomes mainstream, while X and Y wither and die.  The snapshot concept means I retain 1% of my market share (10% of 10%).  That is not really very reassuring.

It would likely honor 100%, not 10%.

Really?  You wouldn't keep a small percentage for yourself?

Offline toast

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4001
    • View Profile
  • BitShares: nikolai
Are you familiar with the snapshot concept? BM addressed above how btsx holder value is preserved even if a successor is announced

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

I read this:  http://wiki.bitshares.org/index.php/Sharedrops_and_Snapshots

But that talks about giving a small amount to PTS and AGS holders.  It doesn't say anything about honoring BTSX.

Also, the snapshot concept does not address the importance of network effects for making a coin actually useful.  For the mainstream to want to use a coin many other people need to already be using it (that is what make it useful for transactions).  Bitcoin looks like it might be able to successfully bootstrap itself into mainstream use, but none of the other altcoins are even close.  BitShares X has enough innovation that maybe it also has a chance to bootstrap.  But not if half the community moves to BitShares Y, and then BitShares Z.

Also, lets say that contrary to the snapshots wiki page,  10% of Bitshares Y goes to BitShares X and 10% of BitShares Z goes to BitShares Y and then BitShares Z achieves critical mass and becomes mainstream, while X and Y wither and die.  The snapshot concept means I retain 1% of my market share (10% of 10%).  That is not really very reassuring.

It would likely honor 100%, not 10%.
Do not use this post as information for making any important decisions. The only agreements I ever make are informal and non-binding. Take the same precautions as when dealing with a compromised account, scammer, sockpuppet, etc.

Offline fussyhands

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 109
    • View Profile

Does that answer you question?  I understand that the community is working hard on BitsharesX right now.  But is the plan to make a succession of competitors?  If so, the future of BitsharesX looks bleak compared to Bitcoin...

The plan is not to make competitors to Bitshares X. 

The new DACs that are under development, which you will get shares of if you own PTS, serve very different purposes:  Bitshares DNS, Bitshares Vote, Bitshares Music, etc.  They are not competitors to BitsharesX. 

These other projects are being worked on by other people than the core dev team of Bitshares X.  (I think?)


To summarize:
Bitshares X is the stock market and derivative exchange DAC.  It is being worked on very hard by the dev  team.  If you want it, you need to buy BTSX.

Other DACs are being worked on as well, which do not compete with Bitshares, but instead serve other functions.  If you want in on these, you buy PTS.

In that case which one aspires to be a universal currency?  I.e. the one I can walk into any store and buy a coffee, or send to a friend and know that he'll accept it as real money, or buy a house with, etc.?

Is that BitShares X? 

Can I be assured that the community won't come out with "BitShares Coin" in a year that is supposed to play that role?

Will the community resist attempts to create a DAC that compete with BitShares X for that role, or will they enthusiastically embrace the new competitor?

Offline fussyhands

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 109
    • View Profile
Are you familiar with the snapshot concept? BM addressed above how btsx holder value is preserved even if a successor is announced

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

I read this:  http://wiki.bitshares.org/index.php/Sharedrops_and_Snapshots

But that talks about giving a small amount to PTS and AGS holders.  It doesn't say anything about honoring BTSX.

Also, the snapshot concept does not address the importance of network effects for making a coin actually useful.  For the mainstream to want to use a coin many other people need to already be using it (that is what make it useful for transactions).  Bitcoin looks like it might be able to successfully bootstrap itself into mainstream use, but none of the other altcoins are even close.  BitShares X has enough innovation that maybe it also has a chance to bootstrap.  But not if half the community moves to BitShares Y, and then BitShares Z.

Also, lets say that contrary to the snapshots wiki page,  10% of Bitshares Y goes to BitShares X and 10% of BitShares Z goes to BitShares Y and then BitShares Z achieves critical mass and becomes mainstream, while X and Y wither and die.  The snapshot concept means I retain 1% of my market share (10% of 10%).  That is not really very reassuring.

Offline Ander

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3506
    • View Profile
  • BitShares: Ander

Does that answer you question?  I understand that the community is working hard on BitsharesX right now.  But is the plan to make a succession of competitors?  If so, the future of BitsharesX looks bleak compared to Bitcoin...

The plan is not to make competitors to Bitshares X. 

The new DACs that are under development, which you will get shares of if you own PTS, serve very different purposes:  Bitshares DNS, Bitshares Vote, Bitshares Music, etc.  They are not competitors to BitsharesX. 

These other projects are being worked on by other people than the core dev team of Bitshares X.  (I think?)


To summarize:
Bitshares X is the stock market and derivative exchange DAC.  It is being worked on very hard by the dev  team.  If you want it, you need to buy BTSX.

Other DACs are being worked on as well, which do not compete with Bitshares, but instead serve other functions.  If you want in on these, you buy PTS.
https://metaexchange.info | Bitcoin<->Altcoin exchange | Instant | Safe | Low spreads