Author Topic: How committed is the community to bitsharesX as opposed to the next "DAC"?  (Read 19927 times)

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Offline Ander

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I like your thinking on this Oldman!  Your thinking aligns with my developing philosophy that Bitshares should be positioning Bitcoin as an ally (at least in these early stages) and not as an adversary as we tend to do now.

I agree.  This is key to getting bitcoiners to keep an open mind and investigate bitshares. 

The following is how I came to buy my first bitshares:

* The blockchain technology is amazing!
* Use the blockchain technology for currency, and you get Bitcoin!
* Use the blockchain technology for stocks and you get.....BITSHARES!  Hey look, they pay dividends!

This is how bitshares needs to be presented, imo.  Bitcoin = your currency.  Bitshares = your stocks (and commodities, and futures...) 

The name is perfect for making this connection. 
https://metaexchange.info | Bitcoin<->Altcoin exchange | Instant | Safe | Low spreads

Offline oldman

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First BTSX isn't just a little better than Bitcoin; it's orders of magnitude and solves fatal flaws.  Bitcoin can't stay at the top given the competition. 



The whole concept of Bitshares is precisely not to create another altcoin to compete with Bitcoin.

Bitshares upgrades existing assets with new features and benefits via cryptography and the decentralized ledger.

bitUSD etc. Are not an altcoins and will happily coexist with Bitcoin.

This is why Bitshares will succeed: Bitcoin will sell the masses on crypto-assets and BTSX will provide the diversification, yield and liquidity necessary for wide scale adoption.

The tech really is that good!

I like your thinking on this Oldman!  Your thinking aligns with my developing philosophy that Bitshares should be positioning Bitcoin as an ally (at least in these early stages) and not as an adversary as we tend to do now.

Once you get Bitshares, you realize there is no competition.  ;)

Offline James212

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Also, this gets to one of Bitshares most obvious weaknesses, which partly has to do with how new it is.  The mental overhead is way way way too high.  There is drastically too much to learn to get started and feel that you have a grasp of how to use it.  The client is way too complicated.  And there is too much redefining of terminology that really doesn't need to be redefined.  Making people learn complicated new terminology imposes mental overhead and retards adoption.  The client can obviously be streamlined with time (or alternatives be offered).  But the community doesn't seem to get how all the new terminology, which is really unnecessary, is seriously hurting them.  If you just said "BitShares is a new cryptocoin that is nearly instant, more secure, less wasteful, more anonymous, more decentralized, and where you can peg value to any currency or asset you like" that would be a lot more effective than talking about multiple "decentralized autonomous corporations", "crypto equities", "bank and exchange", etc.  All this attempt at changing the paradigm gets little and costs a lot.


Fuzzy, thanks for these very valuable comments.  Do you care to expound a bit more?  I'm listening. 
« Last Edit: September 29, 2014, 12:36:36 am by James212 »
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Offline James212

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First BTSX isn't just a little better than Bitcoin; it's orders of magnitude and solves fatal flaws.  Bitcoin can't stay at the top given the competition. 



The whole concept of Bitshares is precisely not to create another altcoin to compete with Bitcoin.

Bitshares upgrades existing assets with new features and benefits via cryptography and the decentralized ledger.

bitUSD etc. Are not an altcoins and will happily coexist with Bitcoin.

This is why Bitshares will succeed: Bitcoin will sell the masses on crypto-assets and BTSX will provide the diversification, yield and liquidity necessary for wide scale adoption.

The tech really is that good!

I like your thinking on this Oldman!  Your thinking aligns with my developing philosophy that Bitshares should be positioning Bitcoin as an ally (at least in these early stages) and not as an adversary as we tend to do now. 
BTS: theangelwaveproject

Offline Stan

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Every argument you have made is true today but will not be true in the future.... to presume that this community and our product cannot find people to create similar infrastructure is a tad insulting and fatalistic.   We know what we have to do, there are HUGE profits to be made by doing it and I am confident that we can convince major infrastructure providers to get on board BTSX.

I'm not presuming it can't be done.  I'm not here for my health.  I'm merely pointing out that it will be extremely difficult.  I definitely don't buy the idea that we're going to have 100 (or even 5) different viable altcoins integrated into the world's financial systems.  Bitshares might be able to unseat Bitcoin, but to get the mainstream support you have to convince people that Bitshares is going to be the one.  That is hard when they can see that Bitcoin has 1000 times more adoption.  I've invested in Bitshares.  I think it can be done.  I just think there is a high chance for failure, and I'm trying to feel out the details of how the community thinks about these things.

We are not out to replace Bitcoin.  We are out to provide a significant alternative to the existing World Financial System.  That is our competition.  Overcoming Bitcoin's lead is just a speed bump along the way.   ;)

(Hey, your OP said you wanted to evaluate our commitment...  :) )

One thing that is not immediately apparent to newcomers is that this community was born with intention of taking on things that are extremely difficult.  It's in our DNA and culture.  "Extremely difficult" just means "worthy of our attention."  "Invictus" means "unconquered".  Here are some flashbacks to past memes where we relished the obvious fact that we are tilting windmills and fighting dragons.  The road ahead is not for the faint of heart, but so far, the windmills and dragons are losing.   ;D






« Last Edit: September 26, 2014, 06:47:11 pm by Stan »
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Offline Stan

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For what they are worth, these blog articles show my infallible predictions on how BitShares will first peacefully coexist as a savings account to complement Bitcoin's checking account ... and then overtake Bitcoin in a second phase - following the path of how many major credit cards became ubiquitous after the first card paved the way.  Nowadays, no one would say that any of the major credit cards has a lock on point of sale acceptance.  All point of sale providers compete to accept all major credit cards.

http://bitshares.org/bitshares-savings-joins-bitcoin-checking/

http://bitshares.org/stans-thoughts-on-dpos-and-bitcoin/

« Last Edit: September 26, 2014, 03:30:04 pm by Stan »
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Offline GaltReport

Every argument you have made is true today but will not be true in the future.... to presume that this community and our product cannot find people to create similar infrastructure is a tad insulting and fatalistic.   We know what we have to do, there are HUGE profits to be made by doing it and I am confident that we can convince major infrastructure providers to get on board BTSX.

I'm not presuming it can't be done.  I'm not here for my health.  I'm merely pointing out that it will be extremely difficult.  I definitely don't buy the idea that we're going to have 100 (or even 5) different viable altcoins integrated into the world's financial systems.  Bitshares might be able to unseat Bitcoin, but to get the mainstream support you have to convince people that Bitshares is going to be the one.  That is hard when they can see that Bitcoin has 1000 times more adoption.  I've invested in Bitshares.  I think it can be done.  I just think there is a high chance for failure, and I'm trying to feel out the details of how the community thinks about these things.

I don't think it's easy but for sure it's not a mean technical challenge as Methodx has pointed out a number of times.  In my view it's comes down to stabilizing and simplifying the client & the assets themselves, some user documentation (user guides: basic/avanced), aligning incentives/benefits for adoption, marketing and overcoming political inertia of Bitcoin.  In particular BM and the team are very good at the bolded part IMHO.


Offline Method-X

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Every argument you have made is true today but will not be true in the future.... to presume that this community and our product cannot find people to create similar infrastructure is a tad insulting and fatalistic.   We know what we have to do, there are HUGE profits to be made by doing it and I am confident that we can convince major infrastructure providers to get on board BTSX.

I'm not presuming it can't be done.  I'm not here for my health.  I'm merely pointing out that it will be extremely difficult.  I definitely don't buy the idea that we're going to have 100 (or even 5) different viable altcoins integrated into the world's financial systems.  Bitshares might be able to unseat Bitcoin, but to get the mainstream support you have to convince people that Bitshares is going to be the one.  That is hard when they can see that Bitcoin has 1000 times more adoption.  I've invested in Bitshares.  I think it can be done.  I just think there is a high chance for failure, and I'm trying to feel out the details of how the community thinks about these things.

We have a strategy for getting there that no coin, not even Bitcoin, can compete with.... it is still secret though :)

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Offline metalallen

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Every argument you have made is true today but will not be true in the future.... to presume that this community and our product cannot find people to create similar infrastructure is a tad insulting and fatalistic.   We know what we have to do, there are HUGE profits to be made by doing it and I am confident that we can convince major infrastructure providers to get on board BTSX.

I'm not presuming it can't be done.  I'm not here for my health.  I'm merely pointing out that it will be extremely difficult.  I definitely don't buy the idea that we're going to have 100 (or even 5) different viable altcoins integrated into the world's financial systems.  Bitshares might be able to unseat Bitcoin, but to get the mainstream support you have to convince people that Bitshares is going to be the one.  That is hard when they can see that Bitcoin has 1000 times more adoption.  I've invested in Bitshares.  I think it can be done.  I just think there is a high chance for failure, and I'm trying to feel out the details of how the community thinks about these things.

We have a strategy for getting there that no coin, not even Bitcoin, can compete with.... it is still secret though :)

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Offline nomoreheroes7

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We have a strategy for getting there that no coin, not even Bitcoin, can compete with.... it is still secret though :)

**shudder**

I have no idea how I can help.  One thing that I think would help would be rewriting the entire wikipage to get rid of all the superfulous terminology and recast the idea in terms that people are already familiar with.  And then redesign the client UI to hide nearly everything behind an "advanced user" interface (e.g. the typical user definitely does not need to see options for shorting, market depth charts, etc).  But I doubt the community wants either of those, which is unfortunate since they are major stumbling blocks.

Uhh...the "advanced user" interface is already in the client as of 0.4.17. Saw it this morning, and does exactly what you're proposing. And looks beautiful.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2014, 02:43:24 pm by nomoreheroes7 »

Offline Mysto

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You are living up to your name.... fussy.    Nothing you stated is fixed or inherent in the technology... the technology at its core makes things easier to use:  names, price stability, etc.   What you are really describing is OPPORTUNITY for growth.   Imagine what BTSX would be worth once we have "stability", "history", "infrastructure", etc.... you buy now and hold you make money as those things are added.   The last thing you want to invest in is something that has no room for easy improvement.   

I just don't understand your reason for posting... what is your goal?   
1) Tell us it is hopeless and nothing can ever overcome Bitcoin?    That kind of attitude is not welcome nor productive.
2) Help us improve things so that we can overcome Bitcoin?  That kind of attitude is welcome and productive. 
3) Wine about things and do nothing?
4) Justify to yourself why you are not buying?

What is your goal in posting?  If you do not see the vision or the future then invest in what is king today (BTC).

Fair enough.  This was mostly an exploratory expedition to decide whether to invest.  I mostly want to understand how the community thinks about BitSharesX and the possibility of competing DACs within the community.  I think I understand that and I've invested.  Then I got sidetracked.

I have no idea how I can help.  One thing that I think would help would be rewriting the entire wikipage to get rid of all the superfulous terminology and recast the idea in terms that people are already familiar with.  And then redesign the client UI to hide nearly everything behind an "advanced user" interface (e.g. the typical user definitely does not need to see options for shorting, market depth charts, etc).  But I doubt the community wants either of those, which is unfortunate since they are major stumbling blocks.
Actually they are working on the client to make it a lot more user friendly. As for the wiki it's a work in progress.

Offline emski

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Fair enough.  This was mostly an exploratory expedition to decide whether to invest.  I mostly want to understand how the community thinks about BitSharesX and the possibility of competing DACs within the community.  I think I understand that and I've invested.  Then I got sidetracked.

I have no idea how I can help.  One thing that I think would help would be rewriting the entire wikipage to get rid of all the superfulous terminology and recast the idea in terms that people are already familiar with.  And then redesign the client UI to hide nearly everything behind an "advanced user" interface (e.g. the typical user definitely does not need to see options for shorting, market depth charts, etc).  But I doubt the community wants either of those, which is unfortunate since they are major stumbling blocks.

Actually both of your ideas are already proposed (and even accepted I think). When it will be done is another question.

Offline Mysto

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I think fussy brings up a lot of good questions and concerns that I had when I was new to bitshares (I still am) and many other new comers are having. I also think you guys are doing an excellent job at answering and addressing these concerns.

Offline fussyhands

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You are living up to your name.... fussy.    Nothing you stated is fixed or inherent in the technology... the technology at its core makes things easier to use:  names, price stability, etc.   What you are really describing is OPPORTUNITY for growth.   Imagine what BTSX would be worth once we have "stability", "history", "infrastructure", etc.... you buy now and hold you make money as those things are added.   The last thing you want to invest in is something that has no room for easy improvement.   

I just don't understand your reason for posting... what is your goal?   
1) Tell us it is hopeless and nothing can ever overcome Bitcoin?    That kind of attitude is not welcome nor productive.
2) Help us improve things so that we can overcome Bitcoin?  That kind of attitude is welcome and productive. 
3) Wine about things and do nothing?
4) Justify to yourself why you are not buying?

What is your goal in posting?  If you do not see the vision or the future then invest in what is king today (BTC).

Fair enough.  This was mostly an exploratory expedition to decide whether to invest.  I mostly want to understand how the community thinks about BitSharesX and the possibility of competing DACs within the community.  I think I understand that and I've invested.  Then I got sidetracked.

I have no idea how I can help.  One thing that I think would help would be rewriting the entire wikipage to get rid of all the superfulous terminology and recast the idea in terms that people are already familiar with.  And then redesign the client UI to hide nearly everything behind an "advanced user" interface (e.g. the typical user definitely does not need to see options for shorting, market depth charts, etc).  But I doubt the community wants either of those, which is unfortunate since they are major stumbling blocks.

Offline bytemaster

Every argument you have made is true today but will not be true in the future.... to presume that this community and our product cannot find people to create similar infrastructure is a tad insulting and fatalistic.   We know what we have to do, there are HUGE profits to be made by doing it and I am confident that we can convince major infrastructure providers to get on board BTSX.

I'm not presuming it can't be done.  I'm not here for my health.  I'm merely pointing out that it will be extremely difficult.  I definitely don't buy the idea that we're going to have 100 (or even 5) different viable altcoins integrated into the world's financial systems.  Bitshares might be able to unseat Bitcoin, but to get the mainstream support you have to convince people that Bitshares is going to be the one.  That is hard when they can see that Bitcoin has 1000 times more adoption.  I've invested in Bitshares.  I think it can be done.  I just think there is a high chance for failure, and I'm trying to feel out the details of how the community thinks about these things.

We have a strategy for getting there that no coin, not even Bitcoin, can compete with.... it is still secret though :)
For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.