Author Topic: Lets vote for lower fees!  (Read 10006 times)

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Offline Akado

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Market Orders are 0.1 BTS
Canceling Orders is 0.1 BTS
Transfer 0.1 BTS

i think  this is reasonable

lol 0.1? You there are two and a half billion coins. We definetely need to reduce fees on placing orders, but that's ridicously low. You think the fees will make you poor or what? Make it between 1 and 5 BTS
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Offline Moon

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Market Orders are 0.1 BTS
Canceling Orders is 0.1 BTS
Transfer 0.1 BTS

i think  this is reasonable

Offline xiahui135

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low fee for transfer and trading, others can higher, especially the register fee
I also think the trade fee need to divide into 2 part.
Palce and cancel order need to be very very cheap, and trade success need to be charge a higher fee (such as 0.05%, still lower than the centered exchanges).

This can get more fee than now.

Offline alt

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low fee for transfer and trading, others can higher, especially the register fee

Offline BTSdac

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I disagree with reducing fees for two main reasons:

1) It makes the referral program a lot less interesting if you dont expect the users you bring in to generate much of any fees.  So then it will fail.

2) A big reason why the BTS price has been trending down for a year is that the supply is increasing, that is, the blockchain is operating at a loss instead of being profitable.  As soon as we can demonstrate a blockchain making a profit over a reasonable period of time, even a small profit, it will attract a lot of attention.  Everyone is used to inflating blockchains that hemmorhage money (through PoW or whatever), but if you change that around and are actually making a profit, then a lot of investors will want to jump on board.  And helping the price break its downtrend is going to help adopting a LOT, because a major inhibitor to adoption right now is that everyone who buys in loses money and gets disillusioned.



Enough fees to turn a profit is the savior of BTS.

The fees for subscribers being 2 cents instead of .5 cent is not going to significantly impact our adoption.

The reason the price dropped is beacuse a bunch of peopel who had bought BTS prior to release but dont actually care about it long term all dumped it.  That had nothing at all to do with what the fee is.


I strongly encourage everyone to vote against lowering the fee.
Disagree with you
1. I do not oppose referral program, but there is no conflict between referral program and low transfer fee,  I don`t understand why transfer is higher than exchange fee , 
also there are different fee ( transfer fee, exchange ), is it reasonable , why transfer is 20BTS but exchang fee is any 5bts.  and I think transfer should been lower than exchange fee
about fee I have some thinking
transfer fee : transfer is an equal in value  of input and output ,  it is also a basic service supply by bts network ,  so it should pay the lowest fee
exchange fee : exchange is not an equal in value of input and output ,  people exchange would lost/get profit. in other words ,the purpose of exchange is to get profit, so most of them ignore the fee, because they can get hundreds of times profit than fee ,if they buy/sell at right price .   in other , exchange is a higher service than transfer, I think,  so the fee is higher than transfer fee is reasonable
borrow/close  fee :  because it is leverage trading, people would lost/get more profit , so the fee should higher than exchange fee
so I think the fee should   transfer fee <exchange fee<borrow/close  fee

bond exchange would charge higher fee , it can support referral program.
2. the big reason why price has been trending down for a year is not the supply increasing , people can accept supply increasing but cannot accept supply increasing unreasonably , eg, Max supply change , the biggest harm is Max supply from 2B to 3.7B, it is old thing  but now we restart now.
the reason of  price trending is not the sell of increased bts , it is influence of supply increasing . also the bad thing is not higher fee , it is influence of high fee .
 I believe bts is a system that can get profit in furniture, I don`t think bts make profit now is a good thing,  a  successful business cannot get profit when it most but have profit perspective.
if bts charge high fee ,it would block people join bts.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2015, 01:07:03 pm by BTSdac »
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Offline donkeypong

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we could provide free banking for the world. 

This is not a free project. We are still paying for the development and maintenance of BitShares. A lot of people have put a good deal of hard work and money into developing this. We all have hopes that it can be widely used to make peoples' lives better in the developing world. But we can't suddenly hand it out for free any more than a company that's developed an HIV vaccine can ignore all the costs it has spent developing the medicine. Now it may not be as cheap as you'd like, but I don't think BitShares is gouging anybody either. In time, as with any new product that needs to develop scale, the costs should come down naturally.

Offline fav

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20 BTS / 4 bts are fine and helping us grow.

I'm not supporting this.

Offline luckybit

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@MarketingMonk

You try to attract new users from countries there already good financial system (USA, Western Europe), while we could provide free banking for the world. Current fees isolate system in one region. This cutting off China, Eastern Europe, Russia, Greece, Argentina, Africa and others.

Doesn't it make more sense to try to attract whales then people who can't even afford to use Bitshares? Attract the whales early on and let Bitcoin focus on keeping itself cheap so people in the developing world can use it as a currency.

Bitshares always seemed to be marketed to people who have money or who are in the developed world. Bitshares was always about crowdfunding, stocks, bonds, etc.

If you are a high net worth individual I doubt you care about the fees. You probably worry more about the taxes than the fees and the fact that Bitshares 2.0 is a lot lower tax, is what makes up for the fees. When you spend Bitcoin you have to pay capital gains and other weird taxes with every transaction. With Bitshares you would at most only have to pay the tax on the underlying BTS price.

But with BitUSD and other instruments you could have the taxes more easier managed than with Bitcoin. Bitcoin goes to $1000? You pay capital gains when you spend your Bitcoins. BTS goes to $1? You spend BitUSD and you pay capital gains, but if you cash out you pay income taxes.






« Last Edit: October 17, 2015, 04:39:05 am by luckybit »
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Offline xeroc

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It seems there are way more people in this community that solve multi-dimensional optimization problems than I thought .. :-P

Offline xiahui135

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we should lower the transacion , place/cancel order fee.

Lower the transaction fee, fee for place/cancel orders. This makes strong and deep order book. I have plenty of experience trade in nxt DEX. Because the market is not deep and my order may not make a deal, I feel lost something to place an order. So I am willing to pay tens times of fee to trade on centered exchange.

We should increase the fee when trade success.
Increase trade fee rate to 0.05%(more or less). So a average 20000 bts order will create 20 bts profit.
Why? Because of a simple research result: both side of a trade feel themself is winner, when they trade totally freely. In this situation, people are willing to pay more.
(I have many experice in this, that i am willing to pay hundreds of bts to central exchanges as fee, when i feel making a good deal. Even 0.5% fee rate is not high for me in this case)

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I'd much rather vote for lower dilution and background sell-pressure.

Offline noisy

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Keep it and let's see this baby grow.

You are kidding me!? You prefer to step back rather than fix the issue? People really complains about that:



This kind of fees really makes bitshares useless for all people in my country. This could be the reason why I could stop using bitshares.
Take a look on: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,19625.msg251894.html - I have a crazy idea - lets convince cryptonomex developers to use livecoding.tv

Offline donkeypong

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Keep it and let's see this baby grow.

Offline noisy

Suddenly I understood the power of no truly requirenment of fee in bitcoin. As far as I know, you do not have to pay a large fee, but you have to remember, that this will mean, that miners will authorize more profitable transactions first. If I want to have a proper speed, I need to pay more - fair enough.

This also mean, that miners are greedy, what is good in that case, because in that case miners are just workers of the network, and they should work as hard as they can, to process all data.

I think the best idea should be to:
- lower the cost of the network. If you want to make a profit, maybe we should not spend so much at the first place? Are miners really need to earn so much? As far as I know, they earn much more that then need to cover the expenses.
- fees should be dynamic. If the there is a lot of transactions in the network, then fee should be higher. If processing is cheap because there is not much transactions to process, fees should be very low.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2015, 11:33:35 pm by noisy »
Take a look on: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,19625.msg251894.html - I have a crazy idea - lets convince cryptonomex developers to use livecoding.tv

Offline bobmaloney


What about 0.1% fee with a minimum fee of $0.01 and a maximum of say $0.10

That way if you send/receive <$10 you only pay $0.01. $25 is $0.025 etc..
What would be great! Is it easily doable? What we need for this? Let's start casting votes!  :)

I don't know if it's easily doable. We would have to ask Bytemaster and also see what are the negatives.

A switch to a percentage-based fee system would require a hard fork (according to bytemaster in this mornings mumble session)
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