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Messages - BTSdac

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1171
The system has no way to identify a user with multiple positions because the concept of a user is outside the scope.   

A user who has a wallet with short and long positions will probably want to cover and combine his positions.
you know we usually say a function is convergence or divergence in area of mathematics
maybe we should consider if the system is convergence or divergence
different person created BTA with different ratio ,  but they exchange these in same market
it like , one person use 1kg gold cast 100 coins  another person use 1kg gold cast 1000 coins ,but all coins have same figure, and flow in same market, everyone tend to use equal gold to cast most coins.

maybe make creating process and selling process to be two independent process.  everybody create BTA with same ratio, also they can choice sell it or store it .
looking foreword  to your comments about this reply

1172
bts x是去中心化银行和交易所。
存cny得bitcny,客户手上的bitcny就是银行余额。同样的,god、btc也可以往里面存。进而实现系统内的高效自由交易。
bts x要实现的是更加易用的数字资产,便于接受的交易平台。
重点和前提是块链安全和锚定机制,这是首要关注的。
有优势不等于马上成功,要让客户产生实际应用的信心,时间得更长。需要共同努力。
楼主所提的扩展应用很有道理但为时过早,那得更加有耐心。我们都得实事求是。目前bts x系统将要面对很多实践检验,我们拭目以待。

我也是为了大家好,目前的设计谁会用的问题???
我的意思也很明白:第一这两个东西并不冲突;第二就目前的功能设计目前的情况而言, BitShares X基本没有被用户使用的可能性。没用户,你应该知道结局是啥。没用户的产品发行了和没有发行差别不大。。发行和锚定自然重要,但没用户接受的产品结局一样是失败;第三 我没要求31现在就要实现,但3I不能不了解这个问题的严重性。钱已经够多了,把脚落到实地上走路,不能一味的理论高大上,落到产品上,如果做出来的东西屎一样烂,没有吸引力的话,理论还有啥用?。

如果Bitusd 锚定美元成功,BTS价格不可估计, 很多人要问,最初的交易深度怎么建立, 不用担心,有III在,他们会建立交易深度的

1173
中文 (Chinese) / Re: 觉得bts攻击仍然未解决
« on: March 04, 2014, 06:07:22 am »
问题的根源是,现在的交易规则下, 这个系统是一个发散的系统,  不是一个收敛的系统, 我在英语帖子里指出了这个系统的问题,并分析了原因,好像没有受到重视

1174
General Discussion / Re: Exchange between BTS and USD
« on: March 04, 2014, 05:06:45 am »
Nice idea.
But the part where someone will have to lose even more BTS to punish the other non paying party might not work, because you don't what to lose even more.
Of course if it's small amount, you will consider paying it, just to punish the bad guy.
But then again, a bad guy could threaten to destroy the money in exchange for a bounty.

Anyway since it'll be optional, this is an idea worth implementing !
yes ,if set set a small amount to punish the big amount locked coin,     a bad guy could easy to threaten to punish the honest man,  but the bad guy would lost some BTS ,  he cannot get anything expect make his trader lost BTS


1175
General Discussion / Exchange between BTS and USD
« on: March 04, 2014, 02:32:46 am »
Many people are discussing how to exchange between BTS and USD. I have some thinking ,
 to finish this process some protocol should be updated,   

(I) send BTS ------ send BTS without any sign to target address

(II).send BTS with locking sign ------ send BTS with a locking sign to target address, this BTS  is shown as immature BTS in target address, the receiver cannot really get this BTS until a unlocking sign is sent to this address by the original sender.

(III).send BTS with locking sign in a certain period ------- this is base on II ,but the BTS will unlocking after certain period set by sender automatically , after sender send a unlocking sign again , receiver get 50% BTS and 50% send back to sender

(IV)send the unlock sign , ------ send a unlocking BTS to target address to release the locked BTS

(V).send the BTS to destroy locked BTS------receiver can send  BTS with destroy sign to himself address to destroy 4 times locked BTS , 

If A want to sell BTS, and B want to use USD buy BTS.

(1).Lowest credit non-guarantee exchange (LCNGE)

1.A send the BTS to B address with lock sign (I)
2.B receive the locked BTS , and this BTS is shown in B wallet as maturate BTS 
3.B pay USD by bank or other way to A
4.After A received USD send by B,  A send he unlock sign to B address (IV), B finally have this BTS
 
Analyze:
1.if B not pay USD to A, then A will not send unlock sign to B address, so B cannot get the BTS forever . A lost BTS but B cannot get anything
2.if B have paid USD to A, but A don't send unlock sign to B address, B lost USD, A lost BTS he send to B though he have USD.

Anybody of lost credit cannot get benefit , 
benefit matrix as follow
              BTS           -BTS                   -USD
      A-      B-        A+                   B+
-BTS   A-            
   B-            
-BTS   A+                           A+USD, B+BTS
-USD   B+         A+USD, B+BTS   


(2)Mutual punishment non-guarantee exchange (MPNGE)

1.A send two times BTS to B with (III)sign.
2.After received maturate BTS send by A, B pay USD to A.
3.After received USD paid by B, A send the unlocking sign to B address (IV), make one time BTS mature in B wallet ,and back one time BTS to himself .


analyze:
1.if B lost credit, not pay A with USD, locked BTS will send back to A after lock period
2.if B paid USD to A but A lost credit, don`t send unlock sign to B. B can send 0.5 times BTS to destroy 2 times BTS that A locked in B address,  then A will lost two times BTS

1176
General Discussion / Re: BitShares X Status Update
« on: March 03, 2014, 10:37:53 am »
A is offering to short 100 BitUSD at a price of .01 BTS per USD
B is offering to short 200 BitUSD at a price of .005 BTS per USD
C is offering to buy 150 BitUSD at a price of .0067 BTS per USD

So lets pair the lowest ask with the highest bid... B & C trade and we get the following result:

B gives C  150  BitUSD
C gives B  150 * .0067 BTS =  1 BTS
B is required to put 2 * 1 BTS as collateral which consumes all of B's order.

Result B is short 150 BitUSD backed by 2 BTS and A is long 150 BitUSD.

We can therefore conclude that C got the best possible deal, he went short at a higher price than he requested.

A on the other hand is asking to go short at a price HIGHER than C is willing to buy and thus no trade could ever occur between these two parties.
you mean if D is offering to short 400 BitUSD at a price of .0025 BTS per USD,
then C should exchange with D?

1177
Ok.  Bitusd stays. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

1. veryaddress can back N times BTS to creat Bitusd with same ratio in one bolck
2.ratio is average of exchangle prcie between BTS and Bitusd of  recent M confire bolcks
3.creat bitusd and exchange bitusd are two independent process,  create bitusd not mean sell bitusd.  bitusd can been created with one ratio , and can been selled with different ratio




1178
General Discussion / Re: BitShares X Status Update
« on: March 02, 2014, 08:06:33 am »
ur... @BTSdac the rule for match buy bitusd orders should using lowest ratio between bitusd and bts , not the value priced in BTS, in your model, why not using value priced in bitusd? it's unfair.

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Tapatalk

everyone use the same ratio to create BTA in on block or in period of time?

1179
General Discussion / Re: BitShares X Status Update
« on: March 02, 2014, 06:58:25 am »
We view the forum as a place where we can share our thoughts and get help vetting our ideas in an open and transparent manner.  It is here that we experiment with various metaphors and analogies in an attempt to communicate technical content and sometimes hard to grasp ideas.  It is where we take time out of development to interact with the community while we are in a hurry to keep up with tens of thousands of postings in a real-time stream of consciousness.   We do not own this forum and we speak here only in our capacities as forum members.

A use 1BTS create 100 bitusd,  B use 1BTS create 200 bitusd,     C want to use 1BTS buy 150 bitusd
the exchange is   A and B , or  B and C

the sell price
A:0.01BTS/bitusd,    B: 0.005BTS/bitusd

the buy price
C:0.0067BTS/bitusd

it seem like exchange should beetween B and C

but I think the exchage should been A and B,, because ,

the sell price of BTS
A: 100bitusd/BTS
B:200 bitusd/BTS

the buy price of BTS
C: 150bitsud/BTS

so the exchange should  between  A and C

when we are talking sell order and buy order, there is a hidden field we might miss, the target currency we want to sell/buy.
Your example here should be A and B short sell bitusd, C want to buy bitusd, but your understanding is opposite wrong.

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Tapatalk
becuase my job reason, I usually am concerned with the system is convergen or diverge.
the Bitusds A sell is totally different with  the Bitusds B sell
per Bitusd_A include 0.01 BTS , while Bitusd_B include 0.005BTS

So if C exchange with B ,  C buy 150 Bitusd_B that only include value 150*0.005=0.75BTS
if C exchange with A , C buy 100Bitusd_A that include value 100*0.1=1BTS
 C tend to buy the Bitusd that include more value ,therefore C should exchane with A

in other way ,if there is D use 1 BTS create 10000Bitusd
if acc. to your exchange rule  , D the sell price only 0.0001BTS/ bitusd ,so C should exchange with D, 
but there also is E  use 1 BTS create 100000000Bitusd , F ```````` or more
so this system diverge





1180
General Discussion / Re: BitShares X Status Update
« on: March 01, 2014, 05:14:08 pm »
We view the forum as a place where we can share our thoughts and get help vetting our ideas in an open and transparent manner.  It is here that we experiment with various metaphors and analogies in an attempt to communicate technical content and sometimes hard to grasp ideas.  It is where we take time out of development to interact with the community while we are in a hurry to keep up with tens of thousands of postings in a real-time stream of consciousness.   We do not own this forum and we speak here only in our capacities as forum members.

A use 1BTS create 100 bitusd,  B use 1BTS create 200 bitusd,     C want to use 1BTS buy 150 bitusd
the exchange is   A and B , or  B and C

the sell price
A:0.01BTS/bitusd,    B: 0.005BTS/bitusd

the buy price
C:0.0067BTS/bitusd

it seem like exchange should beetween B and C

but I think the exchage should been A and B,, because ,

the sell price of BTS
A: 100bitusd/BTS
B:200 bitusd/BTS

the buy price of BTS
C: 150bitsud/BTS

so the exchange should  between  A and C

1181
中文 (Chinese) / Re: 觉得bts攻击仍然未解决
« on: March 01, 2014, 05:11:36 pm »
不知道 成交规则是什么样的,   比如  A 用1BTS 抵押了产生了 100 bitusd,      然后出售 bitusd,     B 用 1BTS 抵押产生了 200个 bitusd    C想用 1BTS 买 150个 bitusd, 
那成交 B 还是成交 A?
A的卖出价格 是 0.01BTS/bitusd   B的卖出价格是0.005BTS/bitusd      C的买入价格是 0.0067BTS/bitusd
那就应该 B和C成交吗 ? 
而我认为应该是 A 和B成交,
如果B和C成交,这个系统本身就是一个发散的系统?

1182
中文 (Chinese) / Re: 觉得bts攻击仍然未解决
« on: March 01, 2014, 04:57:05 pm »

有几个问题:
1. 对xts有16个资产,如果想交易,买单卖单就要保证至少 32%的xts挂在市场上,不知道这样是否会压抑市场交易?
2. 这个市场深度好像无法有效保护攻击,有10%xts 就很可能发动攻击。
比如bitusd的买单,总共有4万个xts,要买4000万个bitusd。我先挂 1xts买 1万亿bitusd,再按10倍抵押,拿40万个xts,发行10亿亿个bitusd,把买单打穿,同时我的最低价成交,获得1万亿 bitusd。
实际攻击成本可能更低。在市场上bitusd买单本来就不多,比如 4千个xts的时候,我自己挂1个xts买1万亿bitusd,同时挂4万个xts买10亿亿bitusd(仅仅是为了满足市场深度的限制,不需要成交)。然后我只需要拿出10倍抵押,也就是4万个xts发行10亿亿bitusd,最后卖给自己1万亿。

40万个XTS 发行10亿亿个bitusd ,那你的 BTS 价格是很高的,  如果有人用 1个 BTS 发行 100个bitusd,那你发行的 BITUSD 就不可能成交, 除非你先把别人发行的那个100个 bitusd(1个 BTS 发行 100个bitusd)先买掉


1183
General Discussion / Re: BitShares X Status Update
« on: March 01, 2014, 03:19:55 pm »
So since it's the 28th... Can we get the BTS X wallet for the test chain? Link? thanks.

I just checked in some bug fixes and validated that I could do the following:

1) Initialize with a genesis block with data from one of the snapshot services
2) Load my bitcoin wallet to receive AGS and PTS
3) Transfer said balance from AGS and PTS... (believe it or not this was tricky to nail down)

I have a laundry list of items that need to be addressed.  There have been a number of requests discussed in this thread and in the attack thread that are causing some delays.   Things I need to handle are:

1) Enforce minimal market depth.
2) Increase default collateral requirement to 10x.
3) Fix a bug where wallet loading errors erase wallet contents.
4) Cover a position without requiring additional capital.

increase to 10x , it a fix value or can change depende on market depth
why not limit increase/decrease percentage of BTA in the period of 24 hours, if we limit 50% increase/decrease percentage in 24 hours  , because  2 times BTS is frozen, so there are two days to operate



1184
中文 (Chinese) / Re: 成立BTS基金会的提议
« on: February 25, 2014, 09:47:13 am »
人员组成:3I公司2人,社区3人。
基金构成:
        1、AGS捐赠所得BTS全部归于本基金。
        2、募捐个人BTS(享有基金收益分红、可三年分三期按自愿原则退回)。
责任义务:
        1、维护BTSX系统正常运行(特别是初期),对恶意攻击实施反击。
        2、组织第三方DAC投资事宜和BTSX系统升级。
        3、负责BTS基金运作。

未尽事宜,欢迎补充!
1.第一条很霸道哟,  基金会应该自然投入多少

1185
AGS里面的PTS III没法随便动,账目都公开,多花了钱总会有人问。公司自己的PTS应该也有很大部分进了AGS。相当于这部分PTS进了保险柜,只用来发bounty和marketing。
III 的PTS真的都捐了吗, 假设III持有10WPTS ,都捐的话,III,应该可以换到 15WAGS,  那么III这部分可以持有 50W BTS,  AGS捐献帐号20PTS, 可以换25W BTS
那III 总共可以得到75WBTS 占19% 左右

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