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Messages - Akado

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691
Well other chains might have other methods to deal with this problem.

But in BTS, specifically, what if witnesses detected the spamming and simply didn't include those transactions on the blocks? I mean, this would be a very serious action, they would need to be sure but... Or why not make fees escalate if they're done within X blocks? That makes sense? If number of tx > X and the transaction IDs are all within [w, z] blocks, they scale up.

If it passes that defined threshold then fees go up OR transactions get delayed and spread throughout the next X number of blocks as a mean to distribute it evenly

Then you give attackers a chance to DDOS the entire chain by raising fees so high as to make transactions financially unviable to send. Shorting the coin at the same time would make this profitable, potentially.

No. I'm talking per account. If an account does what I mentioned above, that account's fees scale or get delayed.

692
General Discussion / Re: Exchanges Market Valuation
« on: January 21, 2016, 07:28:34 pm »
I would take trading fee (.01 for poloniex) and multiply that by their total dollars traded per year.  That should give you their expected revenue on trading.  Then you would need to estimate withdrawals.  As a blind guess I would say that there is 1 withdrawal for every 100 trades with the withdrawal value being equal to 1 trade.  This should give you an estimate for revenue from withdrawals.

You also need to subtract operational costs:  I'm going to venture a guess that poloniex costs $500k-$1mil a year to run.

Here's my back of the napkin for poloniex:

$1,500,000 in transactions per day *.01 = $15,000/day trading revenue
$15,000 in withdrawals per day *.01 = $150/day withdrawal revenue
-$2740/day in operating costs (Guessing it costs $1million a year to operate)

Grand profit total: $12,410 per day =  $4,529,650/year

,Give it a standard stock multiple of 15x earnings and that gives poloniex a valuation of about $68,000,000

(Remember multiples can vary wildly based on growth rates or news flashes)

Wow that's.. a lot!

I was just curious following the thought of BitShares actually owning businesses. Would that even be possible? Imagine we are successful and we could in theory buy an exchange for sale that already has a large amount of users, just to have that user base.

I assume with a worker proposal that could be done, of course BitShares value would need to be ridiculously high. Even though, assuming that is true, the committee account would then pay whoever decides to sell their business. BitShares now has increased their userbase. The question is, who would manage it. Would shareholders receive a portion of its profits similar to how OpenLedger does?

A decentralized entity would own a centralized one that needs to be operated. I mean, objective is to have businesses running on top of BitShares, sure, but what if we wanted to acquire a large user base? What if that opportunity ever comes? The buy could be done but who would manage it? I guess BitShares would then have to pay for someone to "decentralized" that exchange and get it running on top of it? But what about the exchange's website. Imagine it's polo. It still needs to be taken care of. It doesn't run by itself. Would shareholders need to pay for someone to handle it? I think that would be it.

Just brainstorming. To do that BitShares would already be ridiculously valuable so probably no need to acquire businesses that way, business owners using BitShares platform could do that itself. I was just wondering in the remote possibility, just speculating, what if a chance like that happened and we would gain because it had a large amount of users? That way BitShares' user base would increase plus it could share the profits from that acquired exchange or business with its shareholders, creating another revenue stream and adding more value to BitShares in the long run... Would this even make sense? Assume it would be a 1 in a million deal of course, that we could actually benefit from. How would shareholders manage it? Pay for someone else to run it for them in exchange of a bigger cut on the profits? I think that would make sense.

BitShares acquires business A
Shareholder volunteers to run it and gets paid a bigger percentage of profits (imagine 20 or 40%) while the rest of the shareholders get the rest.
Committee would handle the payment each month? Assume the person who runs it goes rogue. The payment needs to be done continuously and not in a single 1 time. For example there shouldn't be issued any shares for that person because he could just steal the. Maybe via smartcontracts? Where for example every 2 weeks if the committee agreed upon that person doing his job, would get that % of profits?

This might seem completely random but I like to brainstorm on every possibility we could exploit

693
General Discussion / Exchanges Market Valuation
« on: January 21, 2016, 06:40:30 pm »
At how much would you value exchanges? Are there any ways to calculate that with any info we might have publicly available? If there are none, how would you value them based on their average 24h Volume (with the exception of zero fees exchanges) and number of users? Do we even know the number of users per exchange?
 
There are multiple factors but any formula you would suggest? Mainly based on volume since that's pretty much what we know.

694
General Discussion / Re: Prediction Markets now available in GUI
« on: January 21, 2016, 06:34:56 pm »
For anyone who is interested, there's this tutorial by xeroc
http://docs.bitshares.org/bitshares/user/pm.html

695
Stakeholder Proposals / Re: Committee: bitcube
« on: January 21, 2016, 06:21:51 pm »
Thanks for the update cube!

One thing I disagree with... First the committee collects the fees and only then they start figuring out what to do with them? That doesn't make sense and isn't a good practice, even if the funds are safe.
you are totally right about it .. and I think in the future the committee probably spends the funds in the same transaction that claims them ..

I thought it was supposed to happen like that...

First the committee collects the fees and only then they start figuring out what to do with them? That doesn't make sense and isn't a good practice, even if the funds are safe.

The committee members had talked about and agreed to collecting the earned fee and using it to improve market liquidity, before voting the proposal.  The implementation details and options of how to achieve this objective were discussed then but they were not finalised.  While we could have discussed and agreed on a single set of implementation details before collecting the fees, the difference in opinions could distract the members from the objective and prolong the phase.  Taking it step by step may help in reaching consensus easier.

Having the funds may force you to take actions faster because you've already started stuff and won't leave it incomplete. I understand that. However I'm of the opinion the committee should have a plan before even doing the worker proposal.

I was under the assumption you had already figured it out. That as soon as you claimed it you would use the funds immediately after. That's why I was surprised seeing this.

Still, thank you for transparency and the update, I think that's really important, I believe you were the only one doing that. Thank you Cube.

696
Well other chains might have other methods to deal with this problem.

But in BTS, specifically, what if witnesses detected the spamming and simply didn't include those transactions on the blocks? I mean, this would be a very serious action, they would need to be sure but... Or why not make fees escalate if they're done within X blocks? That makes sense? If number of tx > X and the transaction IDs are all within [w, z] blocks, they scale up.

If it passes that defined threshold then fees go up OR transactions get delayed and spread throughout the next X number of blocks as a mean to distribute it evenly

697
General Discussion / Re: poll for the percent based transfer fee
« on: January 21, 2016, 05:56:24 pm »

Please give me an example of an existing system where you can move a large amount of money on pay-as-you-go basis without paying substantial transfer fees.
And please include:
- cost of covering the price volatility risk (so for bitcoin transfers add the cost of hedging volatility and converting from and to fiat)
- cost of maintaining a bank account (so for legacy systems add the monthly cost of keeping a business account with a bank)

The problem is that you don't transfer money in bitshares, you transfer tokens which represent money. To buy a bitcoin with fiat on bitshares you need:

- deposit fiat to gateway -> pay fee
- send fiat IOU to bitshares wallet ->  pay fee
- exchange fiat IOU for BTC IOU -> pay fee
- withdraw BTC IOU into gateway -> pay fee
- send BTC to bitcoin wallet -> pay fee

These fees add up. Ideally, it would be good if all transactions on blockchain were dirt cheap, but how do we motivate people to run witness nodes then? Is there any other way than paying them BTS?

This doesn't make sense if I just want to get Bitcoins on my Bitcoin wallet I go directly to the last step after I deposit money on the exchange...

698
Ok so this is my first attempt at a blog post. It's not finished yet, need to check grammar. I still didn't review it but the main idea is there.

Just wanted to share it first here. Tell me what you think. Correct me if I said something wrong. Any ideas are welcomed.

I didn't mention OpenLedger and BitShares on purpose as I'm just trying to get this idea around and some people who hate alt coins, upon seeing that could immediately dismiss it. I intend in the future, however, to make some posts reviewing decentralized exchanges, how they work, etc, meaning bts/openledger will most likely be the first one.

http://akadosang.github.io/decentralized_exchange_network.html

700
You cant tout anything if the Openledger website is still redirecting when you try to look at one of the market urls. So amateurish. Apparently Im the only one who thinks this is a problem.

Nope I agree with you too. Plus there should be a "Screenshots" section to show the beauty of the exchange without people having to open it

701
If anyone wants some "TRYBITSHARES" tokens please let me know and we can pass them out to people in the reddit thread and just let them try openledger  :)

How to do that on reddit? If it's possible we should be doing this already and spreading tips throughout crypto subs what are we waiting for

im already sending them out all over twitter.  like i said before though...the sharebot is a tool for everyone and a mass of people working together guves a mich stronger impression to onlookers.

however, i can say im getting really positive feedback on twitter.

As far as Reddit, you definitely can send it on there as well.

How? Like on the forums here?

#sharebits "Akado" 10000 TRYBITSHARES

Go ahead and go to your account to collect them and then go to the "about" section whrr it will give you the format.  if you want we could form a little group after the hangout this friday and go reddit sharing.

We should indeed. Is there a way to link bitsharestalk/twitter/reddit accounts? That way I have to transfer funds manually.
edit: dumb me found it
edit2: how do people know how to use it when we do that on twitter? Do they get a message? Otherwise it''s just something confusing

702
If anyone wants some "TRYBITSHARES" tokens please let me know and we can pass them out to people in the reddit thread and just let them try openledger  :)

How to do that on reddit? If it's possible we should be doing this already and spreading tips throughout crypto subs what are we waiting for

im already sending them out all over twitter.  like i said before though...the sharebot is a tool for everyone and a mass of people working together guves a mich stronger impression to onlookers.

however, i can say im getting really positive feedback on twitter.

As far as Reddit, you definitely can send it on there as well.

How? Like on the forums here?

703
If anyone wants some "TRYBITSHARES" tokens please let me know and we can pass them out to people in the reddit thread and just let them try openledger  :)

How to do that on reddit? If it's possible we should be doing this already and spreading tips throughout crypto subs what are we waiting for

704
See this interesting reply by Kraken

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/41vhzz/im_jesse_powell_cofounder_ceo_at_kraken_ama/cz5ijoz

"n the future, we'd like to enable trading without needing to take complete custody of the user's coins, possibly through a separate multisig wallet for each user, in which Kraken only controls 1/3 keys."

Could this something around these lines be the solution?

Also...
https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/41vhzz/im_jesse_powell_cofounder_ceo_at_kraken_ama/cz5fv26

"No plans at the moment but I don't think more consolidation would be a bad thing. We are open to acquiring more exchanges, and open to being acquired."

Murderistic told us they wouldn't deal with BitShares, ever, however, maybe someday in the future we might be able to acquire it  :P Let's see BTS reach a higher marketcap and make a hostile takeover.

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