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Messages - Ander

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3151
General Discussion / Re: AGS Funds = Stage 1 Booster Rockets
« on: November 01, 2014, 05:01:30 am »
Bytemaster is calculating the remaining fuel burn rate right now.
I'm guessing at the current burn rate we have six months max to quadruple the market cap.
If we do, we will have reached escape velocity, and all will be swell.

And if not, we need to elect multiple paid delegates per developer? 

Thats not the worst failure case.  Its way better than the previous failure case where the funds run out and bitshares dies!

3152
General Discussion / Re: A BitShares Constitution?
« on: November 01, 2014, 04:59:32 am »
If nobody is thinking anything like the above, what, exactly are you afraid of?

I'm not actually afraid of anything.  Canonizer seems interesting.

I just want to meet someone who is both mormon and transhumanist, because that seems really unique.




Apologies for taking this thread super off topic.

<3 anyone who likes bitshares, no matter what their philosophy is!



3153
General Discussion / Re: Knowing when to stop
« on: November 01, 2014, 04:57:10 am »
There has been talk of a new difficulty algorithm called, "Gravity well" that may help BTC survive the 08/16 halving. However given BTC's lethargic pace to implement change this may not happen.

For the diff to drop they need to find blocks. If the big mining powers lose half their revenue on 8/16 and go dark it could be years before anyone else finds a block and the diff can adjust. It doesn't mean BTC is dead; just that supply is fixed until they figure something out. Nevertheless some will jump ship.

This seems kindof ridiculous to me.

Bitcoin will go through the halvening and literally nothing will happen.  Bit coin will be fine.

Its already happened before.


The problems with bitcoin are NOT that its reward is going to get halved in 2016.   In fact, bitcoin becomes a LOT more attractive at that point, with inflation down to 4%.  Proof of Work isnt nearly as much of a drag at only 4%.

3154
If we're showing the full 2.5B should coinmarketcap.com show the fully mined out supply of Bitcoin?

To me the difference is:

Is additional WORK required to generate the extra supply?


For bitcoin, additional work (PoW mining) is needed before those coins exist.  Therefore it doesnt count.

For BTS paid delegate inflation, addtiional work (what we are paying the delegates to do) is needed before those shares exist.  Therefore it doesnt count.

For BTS extra .5 million allocation, no additional work is needed before those shares exist.  Therefore it counts.  That value is already there, they are essentially existing shares, they just cannot be sold yet.



3155
General Discussion / Re: A BitShares Constitution?
« on: November 01, 2014, 03:53:04 am »
You make some excellent points, but for various reasons you're encountering resistance in this community to using canonizer.com. For me personally I dislike the trans-humanist involvement

I find this pretty humorous, for me I disliked the mormon involvement!  :P

"Mormon transhumanist association" seem like a very tiny intersection on a Venn Diagram.


3156

NO!! I realize Bitcoin is the 800lb gorilla in the room right now but that may not always be the case. If we are going to enshrine anything it cannot be tied to an existing tech. That just assures BTS' place as a second class citizen.

"Less % than bitcoin" is the marketing version, to sell the idea.

The real version is "50 BTS per block cap".  Nothing in the code about bitcoin.

3157
General Discussion / Re: *Draft* October Newsletter - Halloween Edition
« on: November 01, 2014, 03:05:00 am »
I must say, new threads are so much harder to find up in this sticky area!  We are trained to not look here. :P

3158

That will be better for your self serving interest (and mine), to say nothing about the fact that is absolutely necessary in order for the promised dilution of 8% or less, to be true.
But to be totally honest, the other way around, i.e. showing the BTS in the supply after they are gradually released, is the more logical, imo.

I think that the 2.5B upfront, and then slowly increasing due to delegate pay, is more accurate and informative. 

After all, the people with AGS/PTS/DNS shares essentially have a certain number of BTS that they consider themself to own once Nov 5 hits, even if it cannot be immediately sold.  There will be 2.5 billion shares that someone things they own, once Nov 5 hits.

After that, there we slowly be more created as delegates get paid.  So I think that way makes more sense.

3159
General Discussion / Re: *Draft* October Newsletter - Halloween Edition
« on: November 01, 2014, 02:54:59 am »
This is great!
The way you presented the 'community' idea at the beginning was very well done.  (My reaction to it was far more favorable than Bytemaster's original post) :D

A couple comments:

1)
Quote
BitShares is able to use its DPOS technology to do exactly that!  It will also offer up to 50 BTS per block to incentivize 101 employees (delegates) to secure the network PLUS do something useful to grow stakeholder value.  Since its DPOS security mechanism is so efficient, almost all of the BTS issued will go toward software, marketing, and infrastructure.  Stakeholders must approve new issuances by explicitly approving any new-hires that they are convinced will add more value than they consume.  They may choose to issue zero new shares; and, there is a hard-coded limit of 8% annually.

By my math, the actual maximum cap is 6.3072%

50 BTS per block * 6 blocks/min * 60 mins/hr * 24 hour/day * 365 day/year = 157,680,000 BTS per year.
.15768 billion / 2.5 billion = .063072

Round to 6.3%


Is my math wrong, or is the 8% number wrong?  Could you guys be getting 8% by dividing by 2 billion instead of 2.5 billion?




2)
Quote
Well, Bitcoin has for years issued 50 new bitcoin “shares” every block to incentivize its mining “employees” to do the work required to secure its network.

Bitcoin reward blocks changed from 50 BTC to 25 per block in 2012.
(Maybe that is an irrelevant detail and 50 is fine to say).


3) Should the letter mention that this 6.3% dilution rate only occurs if we elect the maximum of 101 fully paid delegates, and in reality, we expect dilution to be lower than that?
Should we mention that shares burned to transaction fees, and shares burned as fees later on when using the DNS and VOTE services will also reduce the dilution rate?

3160
General Discussion / Re: How much would you loan at 17% over two years?
« on: November 01, 2014, 02:28:12 am »
You will do about 2 bitcoin worth, because after that you will move the price up such that the difference disappears.

3161
I was under the impression that the 500M extra shares will be added gradually over the 2-year vesting period. There would be no sudden jump like Ripple's.

They will slowly become available over 2 years.

I just think coinmarketcap should display the new total up front.

3162
General Discussion / Re: Capital Infusion question
« on: October 31, 2014, 11:37:42 pm »
Ander, I believe that wouldn't work, as it would be like trying to 'pull yourself up by your own bootstraps'. To show you want I mean, you can see that anybody with any amount of money could do the exact same thing. You're taking money from everyone and selling it back to everyone, without adding any value to the DAC.

In order for them to get votes, they need to show shareholders value - people need to see the money they are spending, what they are spending it on, and they will need to see results that it is working.

If this didnt happen, the person would lose votes and wouldnt get paid shares any more. 

Shareholders are not going to continue to vote for a paid delegate that is not providing value to the DAC.

3163
General Discussion / Re: News Letter is Under Review by PR
« on: October 31, 2014, 11:28:54 pm »
The merged DAC will have earnings streams from multiple businesses it supports.

+5% This is definitely how it should be presented.

Yes! 

Right now it seems that many BTSX investors feel that they got diluted by 20% with teh sharedrop/merger, but are getting NOTHING for it.

They need to be shown what they purchased, and how it will result in BTS making more money in the long run.



For example: 

Once DNS and VOTE features are implemented in the future, they will generate profits in the form of BTS shares burned!  This will eventually counteract the dilution by reducing overall share count, once these features get rolling and pick up steam.

3164
General Discussion / Re: Capital Infusion question
« on: October 31, 2014, 11:25:37 pm »
1) The investor sets up a paid delegate, and gets voted in (because the shareholders approve of the plan). 

2a) Every time their turn comes around, (every 101 blocks), the investor gets 50 BTS.
2b) The investor then pays 50 BTS worth of money into 'capital infusion fund', which everyone can see and is used for whatever purpose this investment was supposed to be going towards.

3) Repeat #2 for as long as needed until 10 million $ has been given.  (At current market cap this isnt really possible.  At a billion dollar cap it would be over time).



More realistically though, for most purposes the investor would simply buy $10M worth of BTSX on the open market and drive up the BTSX price.

3165
General Discussion / Re: A BitShares Constitution?
« on: October 31, 2014, 11:07:51 pm »
(Even if you didn't, wouldn't you want inclusive language written into your constitution, being as we are in the 21st century?)
+5%

Yes, we do!



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