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Quote from: Riverhead on July 18, 2014, 02:04:37 pmCan someone help me understand if AGS awarded to Founders is part of the Genesis block for LottoShares? I'm very excited to see this DAC launch and the enthusiasm for it on Bitcointalk. Thank you.Yes, but they are all awarded to an address that I3 controls because they have the magic spreadsheet.(Not everyone had registered a founder key)
Can someone help me understand if AGS awarded to Founders is part of the Genesis block for LottoShares? I'm very excited to see this DAC launch and the enthusiasm for it on Bitcointalk. Thank you.
How AGS is handled is a completely different problem, and I agree with you wholeheartedly, tonyk!However given that he is giving away 20% to BTC and DOGE, is a huge blow to bitshares community. BTC and DOGE don't give you anything in return either, well perhaps some free marketing.
Quote from: toast on May 23, 2014, 04:02:03 pmQuote from: FreeTrade on May 23, 2014, 03:57:52 pmQuote from: toast on May 23, 2014, 02:26:25 pmVery cool! Good job. Thoughts:1) Non-proportional awards for DOGE and BTC... Dogecoin's about to get dusted!2) Secure distributed RNG, I'm pretty sure Denny's DPOS approach solves that. Any plans to play nice regarding possible name collisions? I'm sure you would not appreciate it if he called his "LottoShares 2.0"3) Not honoring AGS... Might be reasonable if you're making a point about how they didn't give you any funds, but the point is the distribution list and not shows of allegiance. I don't think a fork is a threat because of Denny's lotto DAC and there is no precedent to show AGS is a good target.1. The BTC and DOGE block distribution points have already passed. 2. I don't think it solves the problem sufficiently for very large prizes - not sure about name collisions - he seems to be calling it Lotto Dapp . . i've got the lottoshares.org domain and google says 'No results found for +lottoshares' 3. I'm not making any point here, certainly not expecting any funds from AGS. I haven't had any involvement with AGS so it doesn't feel appropriate to distribute shares to AGS holders. My involvement is with MMC and PTS so want to ensure those holders are supported. The intention with BTC and DOGE is to get a free lottery ticket into everyone's hands for maximum involvement.For #2 I'm talking about our own Denny Wang aka HackFisher in the "charity" subforum. There are two Denny's lottos =P#3 - please consider AGS! It makes the difference between begrudging and enthusiastic support from the bitshares community. I think the community support may be worth taking 1/4th of the planned dev premine.Thanks for all you are doing and for honoring PTS!Honoring AGS also would free us up to include promoting your DAC as part of our media blitz planned to coincide with our big summer-long DAC coming out party. We are promoting an industry, not one company, and are delighted to promote any third party DACs that the BitShares Social Consensus allows us to support. Possible synergies abound! Joint interviews and videos that people will consume just because they are joint interviews and videos, for example. You can be a part of every promotion we produce that talks about the Summer Cambrian Explosion of DACs. Let us bask in each others brilliance! The whole can be greater than the sum of its parts!While Denny's DACs and your DACs may look like competitors, the real competitors are established on-line gaming businesses. You and Denny will drive more awareness to each other's DACs than you will take away from each other. It's the same reason competing car dealers and hardware stores tend to cluster on the same street. Get the traffic to come to your neighborhood and then compete!
Quote from: FreeTrade on May 23, 2014, 03:57:52 pmQuote from: toast on May 23, 2014, 02:26:25 pmVery cool! Good job. Thoughts:1) Non-proportional awards for DOGE and BTC... Dogecoin's about to get dusted!2) Secure distributed RNG, I'm pretty sure Denny's DPOS approach solves that. Any plans to play nice regarding possible name collisions? I'm sure you would not appreciate it if he called his "LottoShares 2.0"3) Not honoring AGS... Might be reasonable if you're making a point about how they didn't give you any funds, but the point is the distribution list and not shows of allegiance. I don't think a fork is a threat because of Denny's lotto DAC and there is no precedent to show AGS is a good target.1. The BTC and DOGE block distribution points have already passed. 2. I don't think it solves the problem sufficiently for very large prizes - not sure about name collisions - he seems to be calling it Lotto Dapp . . i've got the lottoshares.org domain and google says 'No results found for +lottoshares' 3. I'm not making any point here, certainly not expecting any funds from AGS. I haven't had any involvement with AGS so it doesn't feel appropriate to distribute shares to AGS holders. My involvement is with MMC and PTS so want to ensure those holders are supported. The intention with BTC and DOGE is to get a free lottery ticket into everyone's hands for maximum involvement.For #2 I'm talking about our own Denny Wang aka HackFisher in the "charity" subforum. There are two Denny's lottos =P#3 - please consider AGS! It makes the difference between begrudging and enthusiastic support from the bitshares community. I think the community support may be worth taking 1/4th of the planned dev premine.
Quote from: toast on May 23, 2014, 02:26:25 pmVery cool! Good job. Thoughts:1) Non-proportional awards for DOGE and BTC... Dogecoin's about to get dusted!2) Secure distributed RNG, I'm pretty sure Denny's DPOS approach solves that. Any plans to play nice regarding possible name collisions? I'm sure you would not appreciate it if he called his "LottoShares 2.0"3) Not honoring AGS... Might be reasonable if you're making a point about how they didn't give you any funds, but the point is the distribution list and not shows of allegiance. I don't think a fork is a threat because of Denny's lotto DAC and there is no precedent to show AGS is a good target.1. The BTC and DOGE block distribution points have already passed. 2. I don't think it solves the problem sufficiently for very large prizes - not sure about name collisions - he seems to be calling it Lotto Dapp . . i've got the lottoshares.org domain and google says 'No results found for +lottoshares' 3. I'm not making any point here, certainly not expecting any funds from AGS. I haven't had any involvement with AGS so it doesn't feel appropriate to distribute shares to AGS holders. My involvement is with MMC and PTS so want to ensure those holders are supported. The intention with BTC and DOGE is to get a free lottery ticket into everyone's hands for maximum involvement.
Very cool! Good job. Thoughts:1) Non-proportional awards for DOGE and BTC... Dogecoin's about to get dusted!2) Secure distributed RNG, I'm pretty sure Denny's DPOS approach solves that. Any plans to play nice regarding possible name collisions? I'm sure you would not appreciate it if he called his "LottoShares 2.0"3) Not honoring AGS... Might be reasonable if you're making a point about how they didn't give you any funds, but the point is the distribution list and not shows of allegiance. I don't think a fork is a threat because of Denny's lotto DAC and there is no precedent to show AGS is a good target.
I've reconsidered the issue following the feedback from the community and decided to honor the AGS holders with 10%. Thanks for the feedback on this issue and apologies for any divisiveness created.
Quote from: Goomboo on May 24, 2014, 12:51:12 amQuote from: AdamBLevine on May 23, 2014, 06:41:09 pmQuote from: xeroc on May 23, 2014, 06:39:25 pmand this community IS largeQuoteMost Online Today: 117. Most Online Ever: 373 (December 05, 2013, 11:28:00 PM) [/color] https://nextcoin.org:Most Online Today: 64. Most Online Ever: 480 (December 25, 2013, 10:43:50 PM) http://mastercointalk.org:Most Online Today: 26. Most Online Ever: 142 (May 07, 2014, 08:28:09 AM) https://forums.counterparty.co/Most Online Today: 38. Most Online Ever: 86 (February 19, 2014, 01:19:58 pm)ALEXA RANKS:https://bitsharestalk.org:http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/bitsharestalk.orgGlobal Rank 132,628https://nextcoin.org:http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/nextcoin.orgGlobal Rank 263,310https://forums.counterparty.co/http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/forums.counterparty.coGlobal Rank 358,420 http://mastercointalk.org:http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/mastercointalk.orgGlobal Rank 806,126https://maidsafe.org/http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/maidsafe.orgGlobal Rank 1,482,450
Quote from: AdamBLevine on May 23, 2014, 06:41:09 pmQuote from: xeroc on May 23, 2014, 06:39:25 pmand this community IS largeQuoteMost Online Today: 117. Most Online Ever: 373 (December 05, 2013, 11:28:00 PM) [/color] https://nextcoin.org:Most Online Today: 64. Most Online Ever: 480 (December 25, 2013, 10:43:50 PM) http://mastercointalk.org:Most Online Today: 26. Most Online Ever: 142 (May 07, 2014, 08:28:09 AM) https://forums.counterparty.co/Most Online Today: 38. Most Online Ever: 86 (February 19, 2014, 01:19:58 pm)
Quote from: xeroc on May 23, 2014, 06:39:25 pmand this community IS largeQuoteMost Online Today: 117. Most Online Ever: 373 (December 05, 2013, 11:28:00 PM) [/color]
and this community IS large
Most Online Today: 117. Most Online Ever: 373 (December 05, 2013, 11:28:00 PM) [/color]
You allocated 40% for things like marketing. It's not all about the code. Why not work with Stan and see what win win scenarios there might be in honoring AGS? Don't be stubborn, that's one reason MMC didn't do so well.
Quote from: FreeTrade on May 24, 2014, 12:22:00 pmI've reconsidered the issue following the feedback from the community and decided to honor the AGS holders with 10%. Thanks for the feedback on this issue and apologies for any divisiveness created.What matters is the end results/decisions, respect for now
Quote from: Stan on May 23, 2014, 04:31:23 pmThanks for all you are doing and for honoring PTS!Honoring AGS also would free us up to include promoting your DAC as part of our media blitz planned to coincide with our big summer-long DAC coming out party. I think this could be a cool project and would definitely get behind it if it honored AGS.We might run into problems promoting it as a DAC if it's not really Decentralized and Autonomous. But I think we could promote it as a great project that honors our community consensus.I don't think there's any obligation here, but I think it would generate a lot of good will and we're a cool community! Please consider it Freetrade!!
Thanks for all you are doing and for honoring PTS!Honoring AGS also would free us up to include promoting your DAC as part of our media blitz planned to coincide with our big summer-long DAC coming out party.
Quote from: AdamBLevine on May 23, 2014, 06:41:09 pmQuote from: xeroc on May 23, 2014, 06:39:25 pmand this community IS largeQuoteMost Online Today: 117. Most Online Ever: 373 (December 05, 2013, 11:28:00 PM) [/color] Are sure you invested in AGS/PTS? It's almost as if you want to see this fail and would take great pleasure in it.
I'm sorry for your situation, but it's certainly not your place to judge anyone for wanting to make profits from their investments, especially when we are investing in DACs. Last time I checked, the whole idea behind them was to make profits for the coin holder. I will give you one chance to respond and we should end the derail. Good luck!
Quote from: JakeThePanda on May 23, 2014, 08:33:06 pmYou should donate all the DAC shares your AGS are owed to the development of decentralized stuff.I had indeed planned to donate all proceeds from any successful project (I have also invested outsided of bitshares) to the cause(s) I deem worthy. This does mean I'm not prepared to abscond my rights to the ags-shares, because I want to direct those donations myself. I am not in it for the money (sofar I'm only losing money), although I will use some of it if I need it to ensure at least my short term survival. This is easy for me to say however, because my particular health situation and statistical analysis of similar cases, both of which have made money practically meaningless to me. (Before you ask, no I'm not willing to give it away)
You should donate all the DAC shares your AGS are owed to the development of decentralized stuff.
Quote from: tonyk on May 23, 2014, 07:14:33 pmAs of today I have about 3.65x more AGS than PTS as pure # of shares,(which as of right now is even bigger % of total AGS/PTS respectively, and will be ~3x at the final numbers (1.65Mil PTS and 2 mil AGS). So my interest is AGS is to be honored… but I am just stating what is the logical step for a DAC developer.I have to admit it is one of the things I was somewhat curious about as well. Since my motivation for donating seems to differ a bit from others, I haven't really taken my time to think about the social concensus part or share distribution. I don't even know how much shares I'm supposed to get. I just wanted to support the development of as many competing chains and blockchain ideas as possible and I abhor the single-central-blockchain ones and especially the ones trying to pull everyone together in the same sphere of influence. To be brutally honest I wouldn't mind at all if people did start competing with Invictus at their own game and fork the code and experiment with the technology on their own terms. I'm not a fan of the central point of failure model at all, but for now I don't see many other options. Rationally I'd expect people only to buy "shares" in DAC-chains that they are interested in after those DACs are up and running and only for as long as they have a use for it. It is probably bad of me, but I might as well be upfront with it, eventhough it will hurt my interests plenty, but seeing people expecting to get rich of other peoples efforts by claiming and monopolizing a stake, instead of wanting to use the new DACs, end up with nothing would actually make me feel a whole lot better about the world. It might even instill in me a little confidence that out of all the crypto-blockchain-experiments something might emerge that could actually work, but for now I am not convinced. So from my point of view I don't even see why DAC developers would owe PTS anything and I'm not convinced that pump and dump speculators are even interested in decentralized companies/applications/collaborations and their uses in the first place.
As of today I have about 3.65x more AGS than PTS as pure # of shares,(which as of right now is even bigger % of total AGS/PTS respectively, and will be ~3x at the final numbers (1.65Mil PTS and 2 mil AGS). So my interest is AGS is to be honored… but I am just stating what is the logical step for a DAC developer.
While I agree with your assessment that you can't force people to issue shares, just looking at the 15% pts community response, I'd venture to guess that not honoring ags may not be the best marketing move ever and that looks an awful lot like a social discontentment/consensus contract to me. In the short term I don't see much wriggling room for dac-share-issuers.
the nxt forum is running since march... I compared it today. Bitshares has more new registered members per day on average.
Quote from: AdamBLevine on May 23, 2014, 06:41:09 pmQuote from: xeroc on May 23, 2014, 06:39:25 pmand this community IS largeQuoteMost Online Today: 117. Most Online Ever: 373 (December 05, 2013, 11:28:00 PM) [/color] saying? Oh wait .. there still is a read-only mode for unregistered .. is it?
Quote from: toast on May 23, 2014, 02:26:25 pmVery cool! Good job. Thoughts:...3) Not honoring AGS Quote from: toast on May 23, 2014, 04:02:03 pm#3 - please consider AGS! It makes the difference between begrudging and enthusiastic support from the bitshares community. I think the community support may be worth taking 1/4th of the planned dev premine.It is funny how smart people like Nicokai ( **toast**) can easily be lead into wrong thought process and believes.Here is the simple truth:Invictus came and said –“The social consensus is AGS should be honored at least 10%”-First it is not a social consensus it is just private party saying something (i.e. there is no consensus)-Second it is pretty contradictory/illogical statement – donate X amount to us/me, and expect somebody else to give you shares for this gesture.-Third, I3 took the AGS money and said they will use it to develop the DAC industry, instead later on they said – “Now that we have the money, we will keep them AS A BACK UP for our salaries for 12 mo.” Even that in those 12 mo. the donor/investors expect(ed) a lot of DACs coming and producing money for those developers salaries…-Forth, The only logical reason left to honor AGS holders is for marketing purposes. But this audience is already reached by honoring PTS. There is a very small % of people donating to AGS only through BTC. More than 90% of AGS donors do it through some combination of BTC and PTS (The only notable exception I am aware of is Agent86 who does not have PTS account..., but then again I do not think Agent86 is a real person but rather a second internet/forum handle for a real person)
Very cool! Good job. Thoughts:...3) Not honoring AGS
#3 - please consider AGS! It makes the difference between begrudging and enthusiastic support from the bitshares community. I think the community support may be worth taking 1/4th of the planned dev premine.
Quote from: Stan on May 23, 2014, 04:31:23 pmThanks for all you are doing and for honoring PTS!Honoring AGS also would free us up to include promoting your DAC as part of our media blitz planned to coincide with our big summer-long DAC coming out party. We are promoting an industry, not one company, and are delighted to promote any third party DACs that the BitShares Social Consensus allows us to support. Possible synergies abound! Joint interviews and videos that people will consume just because they are joint interviews and videos, for example. You can be a part of every promotion we produce that talks about the Summer Cambrian Explosion of DACs. Let us bask in each others brilliance! The whole can be greater than the sum of its parts!While Denny's DACs and your DACs may look like competitors, the real competitors are established on-line gaming businesses. You and Denny will drive more awareness to each other's DACs than you will take away from each other. It's the same reason competing car dealers and hardware stores tend to cluster on the same street. Get the traffic to come to your neighborhood and then compete!Thanks Stan. I agree with your point about synergies, and I hope LottoShares will be a stepping stone to help altcoiners understand the DAC concept.Regarding AGS, I do feel that the 'BitShares Social Consensus' has been subject to 'proportion creep'. The 10% distribution initially suggested with the launch of PTS seemed fair to me and a workable model, and AGS seems like a reasonable way for I3 to raise funds for in-house projects, but a 20% distribution from 3rd party BSD licensed DACs seems excessive. I'd probably feel differently if I was using I3's code from the start - but I'm not.
Thanks for all you are doing and for honoring PTS!Honoring AGS also would free us up to include promoting your DAC as part of our media blitz planned to coincide with our big summer-long DAC coming out party. We are promoting an industry, not one company, and are delighted to promote any third party DACs that the BitShares Social Consensus allows us to support. Possible synergies abound! Joint interviews and videos that people will consume just because they are joint interviews and videos, for example. You can be a part of every promotion we produce that talks about the Summer Cambrian Explosion of DACs. Let us bask in each others brilliance! The whole can be greater than the sum of its parts!While Denny's DACs and your DACs may look like competitors, the real competitors are established on-line gaming businesses. You and Denny will drive more awareness to each other's DACs than you will take away from each other. It's the same reason competing car dealers and hardware stores tend to cluster on the same street. Get the traffic to come to your neighborhood and then compete!