Statement: https://steemit.com/cyberfund/@hipster/statement-on-satoshifund-s-augur-iou

Quote from: liondani on March 17, 2016, 01:15:47 PM

Quote from: 21xhipster on March 17, 2016, 11:08:26 AM
[Anyway, thanks, fixed. Would be happy if you will point out to another broken link :-) in the context of disappeared $1 M.

can you explain the  situation in more detail?

I don't understand what you mean, sorry. That was just a sarcasm. Sorry for confusion.

Quote from: Akado on March 23, 2016, 01:32:03 PM
@Ander didn't you have some? @21xhipster do you?

I bought some, but I have a lot of concerns not about technology but about persons.
https://blog.cyber.fund/on-transparency-of-initial-coin-offerings-5501bd9138b1

Also I had very strange conversation with Max (https://forum.lisk.io/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=92) and now I am not sure that this is a proper team to raise this kind of techonology

Quote from: JonnyBitcoin on March 23, 2016, 01:17:22 AM

OPEN.BTC and METAEX.BTC charge 0.3% not 3% but that is still alot just to deposit.

I mean full path from BTC to BitBTC. If we assume that we use Open.BTC/Metaex.BTC directly that mean that we should stuck with IOU provider with very limited liquidity. That is not actually a good thing for our product.

Quote from: JonnyBitcoin on March 23, 2016, 01:17:22 AM

BITBTC is not liquid enough to provide a low fee bridge right now either.

Seems that this kinda chicken and egg problem. How do you think how much time it needs for emergence of a good BTC/BitBTC liquidity? What should happens?

Quote from: JonnyBitcoin on March 23, 2016, 01:17:22 AM
What would be best for you would be have your own exchange and issue your own UIA for example CYBER.BTC
you could charge 0%

Quote from: yvv on March 23, 2016, 01:31:21 AM
Issue your own IOU, prove that it is trust worthy.

In order to do this we need:
- Deliver deposit/withdrawal integration into the client
- Cut part of our AUM to provide liquidity to this IOU
These are not things we want to focus right now.

Quote from: EstefanTT on March 23, 2016, 12:22:38 AM
There is plenty of ways to weight an index. In the crypto currencies world, there will be probably, in the future, lots of indexes.

For now, I have a good one running since july 2015 and giving an acurate information about the evolution of the crypto currencies in a global way vs fiat money. I just have to make the economical input information scripts a little more reliable and create the smartcoin. It probbaly can be done in a matter of days.

I made this thread to brainstorm with this community on the index before creating it. When I see that 21xhipster rushed into creating some sort of Bit20 without understanding fully the details of it, I feel that I shouldn't have share publicly my idea about the index I was going to create.

BitShares is a free market place, everyone is free to do whatever he wants on it. I knew there were the possibility that someone could try to create an index before I do.

Anyway, from now on, I won't share any more details on the index composition and structure, nor the website and other related projects. I'll only participate to the debate and brainstorm to avoid giving to much information. The bit20 website is also disable at the moment, it will be available again soon, after I remove the sensitive information from tne public side.

First nothing was actually created yet. I've just was curious how I can use in what I invested almost two years ago :-) We have our own methodology we are working for 2 years already which was published long time ago :-) I don't understand what you are worrying about really :-)
Update: BTW everything we do is fully open source and we are not worrying that somebody steal that :-) Take it, really! https://github.com/cyberFund
And I think I understand a litle deeper than you think how that index should work. Check it http://academia.edu/22691395/cyber_Rating_Crypto_Property_Evaluation

Recently I have a talk with @JonnyBitcoin and he recommended us to issue tokens of this fund https://cyber.fund/@satoshi_fund on BitShares.

We considering now creation of kinda ETF (floating capital so you can enter and redeem any time, but tradable) using assets under our management (that is about $200k if we merge all of them in one big).

We've done a lot of customer development and understand that for kind of clients we are working with (we have already queue of investors who wait than we will be able to start the thing)  simplicity is what really matter. This guys are scary from Bitcoin. We need to education them using it. And if they hear that they need to use one more currency in order to buy our product they stuck.

We want to build all processes based on bitcoin valuation as well as enter/exit operations. To be honest tradability is not the most important thing for us as well as for clients (all this guys think 24 months+). But we understand that this could be a really cool option. So now based on our requirements we can use Bitcoin colored protocols (Counterparty, Omni, Open Assets, Colored Coins) or BitShares or Ethereum. I've had really hot discussion with my partners which one we should to use. We clearly understand limitations of Bitcoin. Ethereum is two early and we want now. As result we decide to test BitShares in one specific use case. What if we explain BitShares Wallet (which can be hosted on our site) as exchange and not a currency. We decide to check how things can work. As result I was wondering that now there is only two options for us:
- Deposit BTC into BTS which can be cheap but not convenient neither for us, neither for investors as we should create market in BTS.
- Deposit in IOUs (Meta or Open) which is 2-3% instant cut and one more step for our clients which need to be additionally explained.

Both are not acceptable for us.
Is there any ideas how we can fix that for our needs?
What we need is possibility to deposit bitcoins into BitBTC with not more than 0.1%-0.2% cut as we aim to attract investments in terms of millions not thousands in one-two year horizon.

Update: Typofix

BTW
I've create prototype asset. http://cryptofresh.com/a/CYIND.
Would like hear your recommendations how this thing can be configured for better, as to be honest I don't clearly understand all parameters behind.
I'd also like to know why I was not able to create Smartcoin wth permissions witnesses/committee permissions?

@kingslanding I like some things in Coingecko approach, guys did a huge job, but (1) lack of really meaningful assets like Factom, Synereo, Augur, etc., (2) incorrect methodology of cap calculation (like CMC, cutted Ripple, Stellar, Storj supply and as result artificial overvaluation) and (3) non natural or dumb logic of weighting. As result you can see Litecoin (which is stagnating even against USD) in the 3d place and beautiful and really growing (in terms of account and transactions) BitShares at 9th place, or Vertcoin (! what the hell) is 13 and Storj which is awesome at 25 position. You can compare Coingecko with our results if you sort by rating on https://cyber.fund and you'll see a difference.
Update:
Our rating has some obvious fuckups, but they are because of content which is in work though.

Quote from: liondani on March 22, 2016, 08:01:24 AM

Quote from: JonnyBitcoin on March 22, 2016, 04:39:32 AM
trade volume is also easily faked

thats true !

Maybe that is one more reason to use both parameters... Volume + Marketcap (with a 70%-30% weight or something like that)
we could optimally  use even  more data, to choose the top cryptos for our bit20 index but I am afraid it will get too complicated ...

a very good example of doing this "pickup"  is
https://cyber.fund/

they seem to have made a good job with "Scoring Coefficients"
https://github.com/cyberFund/cyberrating/blob/master/scoring.md

In reality they could  (@21xhipster) already use their idea and link their "cyber-fund" with a BTS created smartcoin  instead of a UIA they created using "colored coins"...
I bet they would gain much more traction from the cryptospace    ;)

My methodology is quite raw now and need to be (1) fine tuned and polished. That is iterative job. But when I started this thing the goal in fact was to design a set of criteria for any kind of indexes. I'd be happy to hear any feedback and improvements proposals. We are going (2) to switch to our personal price feeds (http://api.cyber.fund) from Coinmarketcap feeds - they are ready and wait for integration with supply info. Also there is a task (3) to get supply info (for correct weighting) for top rated systems directly from nodes and not from trusted (CMC get it from simple url from anywhere) and often incorrect sources like CMC. Once we finish this 3 tasks I think there will be a place for reliable industrial grade index like bit-20 smartcoin or cyber-20 :-) or whatever. Until this done this index would look like a toy for a sandbox. Probably we should keep things much more simple and start from what we have now. What do you think?

Quote from: liondani on March 17, 2016, 01:08:39 AM

hope nobody got scammed from  provided link at  https://cyber.fund to Synereo !!!     
The link is false and goes to  a scam,phishing site and not to the original one !!!!
That was a "almost" bad experience for me ....

WATCH OUT !!!!

I am expecting some explanations.... :(

Such a scam! Stay away! Broken link!
BTW all content on the site is MIT licensed and free for use (without ads) thus if you do not like something or see that something work not as intended go and improve it. Big hot girl clearly hints this on the page :-)



Anyway, thanks, fixed. Would be happy if you will point out to another broken link :-) in the context of disappeared $1 M.

Nonetheless Augur become crazy. $16 per REP. https://cyber.fund/system/Augur

Quote from: liondani on March 15, 2016, 09:26:43 PM

I liked VERY MUCH this analysis here:
https://medium.com/blockchain-investment-vehicles/a-sane-model-for-pricing-augur-rep-tokens-32dbd9db5f6#.454acti9r

give me your feedback about this analysis please   ;)

Another point is that REP price naturally track ETH price. If you think in terms of ETH investments and you want to yield ETH dividends on your investments REP now is undervalued as ETH price has been raised a bit more since.

Quote from: liondani on March 15, 2016, 09:26:43 PM

I liked VERY MUCH this analysis here:
https://medium.com/blockchain-investment-vehicles/a-sane-model-for-pricing-augur-rep-tokens-32dbd9db5f6#.454acti9r

give me your feedback about this analysis please   ;)

Quite interesting reading.

But I do think about value of REP tokens through lens of reputation, not dividend yields. Augur as DAO can and I sure will evolve very fast adding intrinsic demand for tokens. That would not be a problem and models dono count the facts that (1) this team has first move advantage and unique expertise thus guys (2) wont sit on a few contracts literally. If we assume that REP somehow will manage to reflect truthfulness or whatever can emerge of a person/entity from here dividend yield model just don't work and here come the power of network effects. That is the source of overvaluation I think. The irony is that even though I understand that (1) $100 mln is damn high for a project that (2) has not been born yet (3) that has 70% CMGR for last 6 months - nothing is able to have such a growth forever. Even though I don't want to close position because I think that probably I missed something if there are guys around who want to buy at current valuation. Such a psychology. The problem raised is quite interesting. Now I damned to think about how to model this.

Quote from: xeroc on March 15, 2016, 02:23:53 PM
very nice ..

since you are now running a witness node .. would you like to have it added to the wallet as a fall back API server?

Sure, if you point how to do that :-)

Quote from: Akado on March 15, 2016, 08:21:14 PM

Quote from: abit on March 15, 2016, 08:03:38 PM

Quote from: Akado on March 15, 2016, 07:54:47 PM

Quote from: abit on March 15, 2016, 07:28:11 PM
How much % of total supply is 1951,87 REP ?

By the way @21xhipster I'd recommend post this to General Discussion board.

@abit there are 11M reps

Thanks. It's around 0.02% then. Can we have more?

Depends on if they have more I guess @21xhipster

We do not have more unfortunately. Maybe its time to launch smartcoin?