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Topics - Empirical1

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General Discussion / Is there a BitUSD/USD graph?
« on: August 30, 2014, 05:11:06 pm »
I've heard BitUSD has been trading at a 5-15% discount.

Does anybody have a graph of BitUSD/USD since trading started? 

I'm interested in starting to trade when the market starts again and it would be interesting to see how the discount has lined up relative to the BTSX price graph since trading started.

General Discussion / Dumb idea of the day - Gold price linked BitAssets
« on: August 27, 2014, 02:31:57 am »
The BitUSD/BTSX peg is not super tight because people are bullish on BTSX as a result it may peg below the dollar and not a lot of BitUSD may be created.

Also BTSX is currently quite volatile, low liquidity and can potentially be manipulated by the exchanges. BitUSD will have a wide peg at any time based on bullishness/bearishness.

What about gold pegs?    G-USD/Gold

G-USD can be created by people shorting not based on the price of BTSX but on the price of gold.

This is far more stable less volatile. This peg will be super tight

If you are bullish on dollar vs gold you go long or if you just want G-USD (for the same reasons people want BitUSD but G-USD more stable I think) If you are bullish on gold vs. dollar you short. When two trades meet G-USD is created.

It should work exactly the same except a G-USD will always get you very close to a $ worth of BTSX because the gold/dollar peg will stay very tight unlike the dollar/BTSX peg which has the problems cited above.

We are pegging around the gold to dollar even though the collateral is still BTSX vs. pegging BTSX to dollar.

It's 3am here. I'm sure there's a simple reason this couldn't work just putting it out there

General Discussion / BTSX Market GUI cosmetics
« on: August 23, 2014, 09:23:43 pm »
I like the GUI when you click onto a trading pair.

When you click on markets though in the wallet you are presented with a long stream of a lot of assets.

It seems like it would be better if the top third of the screen was 'prettier' and had 4/5 Key assets. (Whatever those are, BitUSD, BitCNY, BitBTC, BitGold maybe with a little icon next to each like a gold bar for BitGold.)

The rest can be underneath or accessed via a 'other markets' tab or something.

I presume something like that will come later on as time allows? Or are most happy with the layout atm?

General Discussion / $3,000,000 24h Volume, 40% ahead of Ripple
« on: August 22, 2014, 02:11:58 pm »
Wow pretty incredible!  8)

Feels so fast. It seems like only yesterday we were saying

$1,000,000 24h Volume, 30% ahead of Nxt

Oh wait. That was only yesterday...  :)

General Discussion / BM Black Swan insurance fund proposal
« on: August 17, 2014, 01:28:04 am »
I noticed BM proposed these changes in the dry run 15 thread which I quite like. What do you guys think?

Sending the market fees (USD) to an insurance fund rather than converting them to XTS and burning them as dividends or paying the funds to delegates would provide a more controlled way of insuring against price volatility.

Over time the network would end up accumulating a large balance of USD that it could hold in reserve.  If something happened then this reserve could be drained or even "go negative" for a while.   So if you assume a reasonable spread on market orders (buy/sell overlap) then it is very likely the market will have a large and growing balance of USD.

When a short is unable to cover, the network can just give up some of its own USD instead. 

So in a major price correction you just have to ask yourself what percent of the USD will be "uncovered", how long will it take the network to accumulate that percent, and how likely is it to occur.   

The event is most likely to occur as a result of an "attack" where someone tries to manipulate the price.  Increasing the reward for the attack by printing XTS makes the attack more likely.  If you can trigger a margin call and insure that your bid is very low then the potential printing is unbounded.

I think having BitUSD "unbacked" after such an event may be better at discouraging the attack.  The attackers prize would thus be limited to collecting the margin rather than printing unlimited XTS.   The market peg might still hold even with surplus USD floating around until enough fees are collected to take it out of circulation.

So... I am going to propose the following changes:
1) USD fees are never converted to XTS to be burned, they are kept as insurance on black swans
2) If the "current price" is greater than max bid, then we average in max bid.  If the current price is less than min ask, then we average in min ask.  This has the effect of using the median because you are essentially truncating outliers and limiting the effect a single block can have on the average price. 

Someone pointed out that FDIC insurance (printing XTS) may be ok for some bit assets (USD) it would be a major problem for other bit assets (Bit PPC) in the event the BitAsset lost the interest of the market participants.   This would result in a major problem where one "stale" bit asset that was still insured would be very insecure.

General Discussion / BitShares X at no. 5 on coinmarketcap
« on: August 15, 2014, 11:56:21 am »
Nice to wake up and see BTSX in the the top 5!  :D

1. Bitcoin
2. Litecoin
3. Ripple
4. NXT
5. BitSharesX

Follow My Vote / Market use cases other than election voting?
« on: August 13, 2014, 07:10:47 pm »
Hi Adam!  :) Just had a chance to look briefly at followmyvote. It seems from the site, that followmyvote is being pushed as mainly an alternative election voting system. Do you think you may face the problem Thomas Edison did with his first invention?   

Thomas Edison’s first invention patent (#90,646) was an electric voting machine. He spent a lot of time and effort on it. The machine was a marvelous vote tabulating machine, but Edison discovered that the last thing politicians wanted was a machine that could count votes accurately.
See more at:

Having said that it seems like there are a lot of other applications for the Vote DAC as well, like internet polls, perhaps distribution of crypto-currencies, shares, or samples to truly unique individuals and not bots, market research would be the big one.

Do you envisage building up support for it's efficacy by using some of these smaller use cases as a proving ground?

Why are their polls on the current site that ask me about US elections, surely the site doesn't know if I'm unique/bot & I'm actually from another country so my opinion would not be wanted by people interested in those poll results? 

General Discussion / .p2p or a _com ?
« on: August 11, 2014, 10:22:07 pm »
1. BitShares DNS is launching with the TLD .p2p and may also offer TLD's like .own & .key


2. However it may also be technically possible to replace the dot '.' with something else like a '_' and then be able to offer the letters from ICANN domains such as _com too. Web addresses that end in just a _ will also be possible.


Which of the two approaches do you prefer/you think would be more popular?

Many have been strong proponents of the large sharedrop type approaches that Stellar is attempting

There has also been a lot of media hype and press around their launch and they also 'supposedly' got a $3 million injection for only 2% equity so they have some funds to work with.

They also have Jed McCaleb as a board member and co-founder of Dogecoin, Jackson Palmer as an advisor, among others, so if any team is capable of pulling this strategy off, it's probably these guys,

So now we have a front row seat to the type of sharedrop strategy some have been advocating.
Personally I'm not a fan of these approaches, but it's worth keeping an eye on, because if they succeed then we can learn things and apply them in future DAC's.

General Discussion / Can BTSX names be made transferrable?
« on: August 10, 2014, 06:21:46 pm »
I'd recognised the value of having very similiar brand names registerable in the namespace DAC but this post from Brent shows that there's potentially a lot more than 0.1 BTSX of value to be gained from many BTSX names. I know I personally would have paid a lot more for mine & I can see now,  a lot of businesses would want their BTSX account name to be their brand name and for it to be carried over to future X DAC's.

It's probably too late now but there's value in an account name that matches your brand name or your name too. (Especially if BTSX gets as big as we think it can.)

To me, BitShares DNS s acting like it invented a browser window with some new complicated TLD system, & added security features and you want to make adoption as seamless as possible (Like chrome vs. some other browser)  but there's no need, unlike crypto, the gateway between the two couldn't be simpler. So to me we're underselling ourselves by not making all .com's and .orgs newly available on a superior system. (At the moment it's like we're sharedropping our most valuable product onto an inferior ICANN.)

A .com on BitShares DNS has so much value because, once you have that your online brand can never be seized where as in ICANN they can take your online brand name away from you at any time. That is valuable, don't give it away for free!  The real $ are in selling .com & .org domains - the Rolls Royce TLD of value, status and recognition. on ICANN may be blocked/seized at some point in the future. Wouldn't want to secure it's brand on BitShares DNS where it can never be touched/blocked by TPTB and where it is much more secure and private for it's users? I think would be willing to to pay & bid for on BitShares DNS. might not care about Apple.p2p but if we have a new superior DNS system that is growing in popularity with crypto-currency types and people who generally dissaprove of Big Brother then will care about not owning A LOT! If doesn't secure on the DNS system of the future, that's their loss not BitShares DNS!


BitShares DNS - 'We're the decentralised orange one'
Everyone associates the existing TLD's with a blue colour, when you share them, or when you google/Yahoo them. By making ours and BitShares DNS being a separate opt in browser everyone will know is not necessarily but there's a lot of value in an exact brand name.


Unfortunately new businesses may not be able to build a strong brand identity around our .p2p TLD

-.P2P is unknown and has little value.
-.P2P the ICANN TLD could be bought/blocked at any time

Existing businesses wll already have a more well known ICANN TLD like or that they've built their online brand and presence around, which they'd like to keep.  It's far easier for them to replicate that online presence & brand using their same TLD on BitShares DNS.

Instead of saying visit us at or Bitshares.p2p  We could want to say  - 'Visit us at (Also on BitShares DNS)   

Now the rush will be on to secure the same TLD you brand your business by on BitShares DNS!


While BitShares DNS is new and has little traffic, it solves all of the problems associated with ICANN. If it starts gaining traction within the crypto market, it will be incredibly important for businesses to future proof their online brand by securing their existing .com or .org  brand that they've worked hard to build on BitShares DNS, the DNS of the future!

Given the growing Big Brother trend and free people's antagonism towards it, BitShares DNS could easily be a likely sucessor to ICANN in just a few years and may perhaps be a preferrable choice for your target market, such as crypt-currency enthusiasts right away!  (Your business sales may increase by offering a BitShares DNS verson of your site.)

Will want to risk having built a brand name only for BitShares DNS to grow in popularity and someone offer a similar site under the brand name he's built?


Has your  billion dollar poker brand, on ICANN been unfairly seized by an over-reaching government and all your customers blocked? is still running!  'BitShares DNS users unnaffected!'

Has the oppressive Turkish government blocked is still running fine and is untouchable!  'BitShares DNS users unnaffected!'

Is  being spied on &/or having it's security compromised? Use for maximum security and privacy.

(In fact, given the tenous nature of Bitcoin legality can any Bitcoin related .com or  .org afford not to also put their online brand on BitShares DNS and will not many of their target market prefer & be comfortable using their well known domains on BitShares DNS in a very short space of time?)

KeyID / Potential BitShares DNS pre-snapshot marketing strategy ideas
« on: August 06, 2014, 02:46:06 pm »
Idea 1:             Bitcointalk Announcement thread

A strong well supported announcement thread in the Announcements sections -
The main market of people looking to spend BTC on something pre-launch frequent that section. We should make a great announcement there imo.

It moves at a mile a minute so it needs to be well supported and we all need to get behind it and respond at the start for it to gain traction.

Idea 2:                 NameCoin Marketing

NameCoin holders are the second key target market. Presumably people holding NameCoin are doing so because they want access to something like what BitDNS will start delivering in less than a month.

A) Start a soft thread on their forums -'BitDNS, NameCoin alternative launching end Aug discussion'

B) Mystery Sharedrops - Fee Fi Fo fum, I dislike sharedrops, but if we should sharedrop to anyone that would likely be buyers it should mostly be to NameCoin imo.

C) BTCE trollbox, 80% of NMC volume is @ BTCE, they have a trollbox good idea if you have an account there to mention/promote BitDNS to the traders and direct them  to snapshot announcement.

Idea 3:                Change BitShares-PTS on coinmarketcap to PTS (BitDNS 21/08)   (Crazy Idea)
Crazy idea - Change 'BitShares-PTS' on Coinmarkecap when it is 'snapshot hot'

From now until the BitDNS snapshot date. What about changing 'BitShares-PTS' to 'PTS (BitDNS21/08)' on till the snapshot date. (or whatever DNS DAC will be called)

(Also change the link when on so that when you click on PTS it takes you to the snapshot announcement during the period PTS is 'snapshot hot' 

My thinking - BitShares-PTS serves no other purpose than being a vessel for snapshots, so altering it  on when it is 'snapshot hot' is brand positive imo & also helps people understand what BitShares-PTS does in general.

CoinMarketCap is ranked 3000th in the US (FAR FAR higher than any of BitShares related sites) This is the perfect place for a prime time billboard advertising a snapshot. (Even if we have to pay CMC for hassle of changing it.) 


Crazy idea - Change 'BitShares-PTS' on Coinmarkecap when it is 'snapshot hot'

From now unitl the BitToast snapshot date. What about changing 'BitShares-PTS' to 'PTS (BitToast 21/08)' on till the snapshot date. (or whatever DNS DAC will be called)

(Also change the link when on so that when you click on PTS it takes you to the snapshot announcement during the period PTS is 'snapshot hot' 

My thinking - BitShares-PTS serves no other purpose than being a vessel for snapshots, so altering it  on when it is 'snapshot hot' is brand positive imo & also helps people understand what BitShares-PTS does in general.

CoinMarketCap is ranked 3000th in the US (FAR FAR higher than any of BitShares related sites) This is the perfect place for a prime time billboard advertising a snapshot. (Even if we have to pay CMC for hassle of changing it.) 


Edit: I've just referenced it as BitToast here but it will obv. be whatever name Toast actually decides.

KeyID / BitShares DNS general thoughts.
« on: August 06, 2014, 02:33:46 pm »
I've read some of the threads, apologies if  this has been covered or not do-able just giving my ideas & my thinking behind them.
1. A 10% Auction system.
2. A minimum opening bid which decreases each month
3. Current top 10 000 valued ICANN domains have higher minimum opening bids which decrease each month
4. 0.5% Renewal fee auction every one or two years.


1. A 10% Auction System

I really like the .p2p auction system in general to incentivise people to bid a domain up to somewhere near it's current value. I also think it is exciting and interesting, this is something people will want to take part it in!
As for the auction system described in the OP, I think it's fine.  But what's wrong with with a very simple to explain system?

To start an auction you must offer the minimum required opening bid. 
Another bidder must offer at least 10% more.
If there is another bidder you get 1/2 of the difference between his bid and your bid and 1/2 is dividends for shareholders. 
This means you will make a minimum of 5% return if someone bids higher than you.
If no-one else bids you will own that domain.


2.     The Minimum opening bid (decreases over time.)

Problem: It is likely domain names will be undersold and most of the good & valuable names taken via a land grab by initial shareholders in the first two months. 

(This is bad as we get a lower price as shareholders and I think it's very important in order to increase adoption that people both want to join as quick as possible but also don't feel like they've missed the party and that all the good names have been taken in the first two months.)

Possible Solution: A minimum required opening bid that decreases over time.

Price fixing is good imo. Most sellers of product start high and over the course of a season (or a day in fresh produce) the price drops - to avoid underselling yourself at the start

In month 1 the minimum opening bid is say circa $10-20 and it decreases by $1/2 a month until it reaches $1 in month 12. (I know we don't have BitUSD just a general concept/idea.)

This decreasing minimum opening bid stops the bulk of good domain names being undersold in the first few months when DAC participation is low.


3. The Current top 10 000 ICANN valued domain names

A bit more out there...

Problem: Even with no.2, all the most popular domain names will be undersold and most of the good names taken via a land grab by early adopters.. (Sex.p2p, Casino.p2p, Apple.p2p, Nike.p2p, 888.p2p  etc.)
It will feel unfair that initial shareholders have taken all the best names. It also removes a lot of potential excitement and interest from the DAC imo.

If you think of DNS shareholders as native Indians and domain buyers as settlers of the New World, even with an auction system, we would do better rather than auctioning the best land to the first 100 settlers, at least waiting for a few more thousand settlers to arrive on ships before we sell the best land.

Possible Solution: We already have an idea from existing domain systems which domain names are likely to be more popular & valuable so why not reference valuation sites to derive a minimum opening bid for them?

Before the DAC starts we input the current 10 000 most valuable domain names into the system. (The minimum opening bid for a top 10 000 domain is it's $ value on the DAC start date divided by 10 000 with a 25% monthly drop.  (I know we don't have BitUSD, just a general idea.)

Example: is valued at $11 Million so it would cost $1100 to open the bidding on Nike.p2p in month no.1 of the BitShares DNS DAC! This sounds expensive right? It is! But by month 12 it would only be a $35 minimum bid.

This will stop an unfair situation where all the most valuable & popular names are taken in the first few months. This will be great for the perceived fairness of the DAC and I think it will create a lot more excitement and interest. Watching and seeing some of the most popular domain names come down in minimum opening bid price and wondering when people are going to grab them & taking part in the auctions. It could also give time for the actual companies that currently own them to take notice. (If they all were all auctioned  in the first month it would be pretty bad imo.) 

4. Renewal fee Auction

Problem: Domains are worth vastly different prices at different times & the DAC also has a long term sustainability problem. 

Possible Solution: A renewal fee that takes into account the domains current value.

Even including something like ideas no.2 & no.3 above, in a couple of years the majority of the good names will have been sold and the value of the DAC will decline unless there is a renewal fee which extracts a fee from domain names that is somehow related to their current value. (It would also be a small deterrent or a tax on squatters if they could be forced to pay a higher renewal fee for a popular domain.)

Renewal fee auction - Every one or two years there is a renewal fee auction. If there are no bids in the auction the site owner pays the minimum renewal fee. If there are bids, the site owner only has to pay 0.5% (maybe higher?) of the highest bid (within 30 days) to retain his site for another 1/2 years or he loses it to the highest bidder.


I bid $10 000 for Nike.p2p so the owner must pay a $50 renewal fee to keep it for another 1/2 years or I get it for $10k (The final bidder gets 50% of the renewal fee and 50% goes to dividends)

This one may be controversial as it is a form of paying ground rent, why I think it is important is also here....

Edit: I'm always a fan of the most simple clear system  but arhag's basic concept here has some merit.

But we can make things even better in order to strike an appropriate balance between disincentivizing squatters and not punishing legitimate domain holders too much. The tax rate could be a function of the length of time the domain holder has held onto the domain

Other thoughts

-It would be good if the equity release only kicks in after 30-60 days
-There is quite a lot of equity being funnelled through delegates maybe people would be happier if normal delegates only get fees& only the top 10-20 delegates by approval are trusted with directing equity release.


Watsup? Is the world ending :) Maybe I better check BTT

Edit: The good news is BTSX currently has a CAP of $200 million  :P

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